1958 14' Fleetform

greenbush future

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

I think most restore with paint, most folks don't know how to apply gel-coat. My 61 Lone Star will get a nice "paint" job, due to cost and experience.
 

cpenrose

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

I thought you couldn't paint bare fiberglass though.
 

cpenrose

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

OH well thats awesome, I thought you coudn't. Now I know why you guys thought I was insane.
 

matt167

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

I think in your case, what I would do is get a gallon or 2 of Evercoat Rage body filler. Thin it out with Polyester fiberglass resin to the point you can 'paint' on the filler. Activate it with both polyester fiberglass hardener and body filler hardener to make sure both components are activated. 'Paint' the boat with the thin filler. You should be able to fair it quite easilly with a long board. This will make a 'gel coat' like surface that can accept primer and paint. It will take 2 extra steps however. It can't get wet while the body filler is exposed ( so you have to cover it ). Also, you will need to seal the body filler before you put your paint on. It's probably not the right way to do it, but it should last a while..
 

cpenrose

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

With the cover part, It would be in my garage but my uncles got his truck in it, so if I needed it covered I could take the truck out for a day or two.
 

cpenrose

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

Woo I have it gutted except for the bulkheads, but I'm keeping them.
 

cpenrose

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cpenrose

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

Going to HD tonight again, what grit am I looking at for he orbital sander for the gel coat removal?
 

jbcurt00

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

I think in your case, what I would do is get a gallon or 2 of Evercoat Rage body filler. Thin it out with Polyester fiberglass resin to the point you can 'paint' on the filler. Activate it with both polyester fiberglass hardener and body filler hardener to make sure both components are activated. 'Paint' the boat with the thin filler. You should be able to fair it quite easilly with a long board. This will make a 'gel coat' like surface that can accept primer and paint. It will take 2 extra steps however. It can't get wet while the body filler is exposed ( so you have to cover it ). Also, you will need to seal the body filler before you put your paint on. It's probably not the right way to do it, but it should last a while..

I wouldn't recommend that you use filler that was designed for auto body work. Evercoat recommends NO MORE then 10% by weight thinning the filler, that does not sound 'thin' enough to be painted on as suggested.

As the OP is a teenager, I also wouldn't suggest $50/gal+ filler for use on a hull that has been attacked by a somewhat over eager & inpatient restorer with a grinder & random orbital sander. It will likely require more then 1 gal of filler to fair this hull, if fairing is even attempted.

I'd also refrain from suggesting that auto body filler hardener (creme) & poly resin hardener (MEKP) be blended into the filler, and then use that filler as fairing.

The suggestion of using auto body filler, that CAN'T get wet, on a BOAT, isn't sound advice, IMHO.

The gelcoat has been removed, will be removed, or is substantially failing on this Fleetform. The likelihood that the OP will attempt to completely fair & long board this hull is somewhat unlikely. Although the gelcoat that has been removed shaped & profiled the hull, now that it has been removed, fully fairing the hull and making the port match the starboard and have the body lines & contours line up, look 'right' and give the boat it's original character will prove challenging to many restorers.

As there has been multiple requests for information, and that information was largely or in part disregarded, suggestions should be given careful consideration, and be very clearly defined.

I still commend you for attempting this project.

And although you are asking for info about paint:
Yacht Enamel Boat Paint, Hatteras Off-White, QT - Interlux 108 - iboats Interlux Pre-Kote Primer - iboats Since I "only" need sanding and fairing along with some crack fixes I want to start understandig the paint. Can I use these and can I add pigments to them. I also don't understand the different uses for different types like topside and epoxy and such. There is too many types and uses...

There is more left to learn & read before you attempt to 'only sand & fair along with (complete (sic)) some crack fixes'

So as before, to try to keep you from getting too far ahead of yourself & making more work for yourself, I suggest you spend some time & read thru some resto threads, before you spend too much time focusing on paint & paint choices. There is fiberglass work to be done prior to installing stingers & your transom. There is fiberglass work to be done prior to & after any deck you install in the boat.
 

jbcurt00

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

You really need to slow down and ask more questions before diving in. You are causing yourself sooooo much more work and effort. A R/O sander with 60 grit is all that you need to remove all the loose stuff and remove the deep scratches. A grinder with sanding disc's is for sure not the way to go especially on the top cap.

If you won't do as I've suggested & read thru some resto threads, you should at least try to read YOUR OWN thread.....

Particularly when WOG is giving you advice.
 

matt167

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

I wouldn't recommend that you use filler that was designed for auto body work. Evercoat recommends NO MORE then 10% by weight thinning the filler, that does not sound 'thin' enough to be painted on as suggested.

As the OP is a teenager, I also wouldn't suggest $50/gal+ filler for use on a hull that has been attacked by a somewhat over eager & inpatient restorer with a grinder & random orbital sander. It will likely require more then 1 gal of filler to fair this hull, if fairing is even attempted.

I'd also refrain from suggesting that auto body filler hardener (creme) & poly resin hardener (MEKP) be blended into the filler, and then use that filler as fairing.

The suggestion of using auto body filler, that CAN'T get wet, on a BOAT, isn't sound advice, IMHO.

The gelcoat has been removed, will be removed, or is substantially failing on this Fleetform. The likelihood that the OP will attempt to completely fair & long board this hull is somewhat unlikely. Although the gelcoat that has been removed shaped & profiled the hull, now that it has been removed, fully fairing the hull and making the port match the starboard and have the body lines & contours line up, look 'right' and give the boat it's original character will prove challenging to many restorers.

Thinning polyester filler with polyester resin to the point it turns into a thick paint is done all the time, usually with audio 'builds' on Sub boxes and such but other things as well.. Creme hardner is mainly Benzoyl peroxide. Filler is supposed to activate with MEKP, but I know many who use both just to make sure the products are activated. Body filler is hydroscopic, but so is polyester resin without gelcoat ( or primer/paint ). Once filler is sealed, it will be waterproof. Jamestown Distributors sells both Evercoat Rage and several Bondo products as fairing compounds.. In any case what I described I know is not the right way to do it, but that boat is really rough. It was just a thought on how I would tackle it and make it last a while. In another thought, I wouldn't tackle a boat that rough
 

cpenrose

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

That was great jb, though one thing is that I won't be grinding on the surfaces that I am painting. Also, I think WOG was talking about the interior paint which is much easier to remove than the gelcoat... but I could be wrong. SO am I still using 60 grit on the orbital sander to remove the gel coat... By the way the boat has what I think is a bondo type of filler in spots, and it comes off if I scrape it with a chisel so I'll use thickened epoxy I guess?
 

jbcurt00

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

And most of my comments were addressing the fact that the OP is 13yr, and to keep that in mind when making suggestions, given the past Q&A, and preventing a situation that is either currently or can be potentially unsafe, and minimizing the possibility of reaching a point of no return & becoming frustrated enough w/ the struggle to complete the project that it is abandoned,

Thinning the Rage w/ resin wasn't in the original suggested use of thinned Rage painted on. Particularly since that blended resin/filler sounds like something that might best be done by someone experienced w/ resins & fillers. The chemistry involved to make sure it is properly mixed & fully kicks may be beyond many of our capabilities, and certainly would have been when I was 13.

Bondo sells a filler for Marine use, that is listed as below the waterline safe. It may even be available at many online marine retailers. It is made with talc. I wouldn't suggest someone use it below the waterline. Someone who takes the time to determine for themselves that it is a product they want to use, may certainly do so. Unfortunately, as many of us at 13, there isn't going to be a lot of research & study involved prior to proceeding.

As noted by the repeated question about the 60grit paper above.

Matt: I would not have posted my comments in your thread unless you asked for advice, and if my advice differs from yours, that is 1 of the benefits of having this forum, you may proceed as you see fit w/ your project. Because either thru research or previous experience, you have developed a process & plan that fits your goals, budget & time frame.
 

cpenrose

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

"has been attacked by a somewhat over eager & inpatient restorer with a grinder & random orbital sander" I don't know how to quote one part. But, does this mean I'm not supposed to use an orbital sander either, and if so what am I supposed to use?
 

jbcurt00

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

That was great jb, though one thing is that I won't be grinding on the surfaces that I am painting. Also, I think WOG was talking about the interior paint which is much easier to remove than the gelcoat... but I could be wrong. SO am I still using 60 grit on the orbital sander to remove the gel coat... By the way the boat has what I think is a bondo type of filler in spots, and it comes off if I scrape it with a chisel so I'll use thickened epoxy I guess?

Unfortunately, I don't think you remember all of what WOG said:
You really need to slow down and ask more questions before diving in. You are causing yourself sooooo much more work and effort. A R/O sander with 60 grit is all that you need to remove all the loose stuff and remove the deep scratches. A grinder with sanding disc's is for sure not the way to go especially on the top cap.

IMHO, WOG was talking about the interior paint & the top cap (which would be gelcoat possibly under paint) and since the hull is gelcoat (may also be under paint) the same 60grit would be fine. And then 80 or 100, and then filler & fairing.

You mentioned that you had started removing the gelcoat down to bare fiberglass, and asked about painting bare fiberglass.

If you haven't gotten familiar with how to make, or apply filler & fairing, it is a tad early to be asking questions about the paint. At this point you should be deciding if there are areas you need to add fiberglass cloth (CSM & 1708) to prior to filling & fairing. Working on the fiberglass repairs, and finalizing the plan for How to prep for filler & fairing, and how to make your own of each.

Once you finish the filling & start fairing, learn about the available choices, types & applications of paint

BTW: WOG's signature line may have information of interest: "Paint Your Boat for Under $100 Bucks"

But again, don't focus on paint, you need to be over here in WOG's thread: "Fabricating Decks, Stringers, and Transoms"A

And collecting supplies & materials for fiberglass, filling & fairing.
 

cpenrose

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

"The likelihood that the OP will attempt to completely fair & long board this hull is somewhat unlikely" Of course I'm going to fair it and I promise you that it will be flawlessly smooth before I paint it no matter what it takes. The only reason I'm not taking great care with the inside is because carpet is going over it, and it is somewhat smooth whick I think is fine if you won't even see it.
 

jbcurt00

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

"has been attacked by a somewhat over eager & inpatient restorer with a grinder & random orbital sander"
I don't know how to quote one part. But, does this mean I'm not supposed to use an orbital sander either, and if so what am I supposed to use?

If you recall the 1st pix you posted when your wheel broke grinding on the interior, that area was as I described. I don't think you've posted any pix of the random orbital & 60Grit sanding you've done. So I may have grossly over exaggerated the random sanding work you've done. Particularly if you just bought the 60Grit & haven't used it yet.

Neither eager nor inpatient where used as a negative description, they are merely descriptive.

I think you mentioned being bored & deciding to use the grinder on the interior. Inpatient

And at 13, in pursuit of this particular challenge, and inpatient, you are also then eager.

Of course I'm going to fair it and I promise you that it will be flawlessly smooth before I paint it no matter what it takes. The only reason I'm not taking great care with the inside is because carpet is going over it, and it is somewhat smooth whick I think is fine if you won't even see it.

If you are removing the gelcoat down to bare fiberglass, and 1708 & CSM, which are as of yet, to the best of my knowledge, not currently in the planned work pipeline, and are not going to be used, there will be an immense amount of filling required, and an even greater amount of fairing required. And given the descriptions you've used and what appears to be lack of follow thru on advice, the lack of long board sanding is IMHO and is only based on available evidence.

If you will take the time to long board & fair, why wouldn't you take the time to learn more about how to get to that point, and what it would take to make the long boarding quicker & easier? Final finishes are based on prep, the amount & level of prep is based on how the underlying work was completed.


Re the quote Q:
Just cut the:

[/QUOTE]

at the end and paste it where you want to stop the text you want to quote, as I have done when I quoted you above. And delete the info you don't want to quote
 

matt167

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

Matt: I would not have posted my comments in your thread unless you asked for advice, and if my advice differs from yours, that is 1 of the benefits of having this forum, you may proceed as you see fit w/ your project. Because either thru research or previous experience, you have developed a process & plan that fits your goals, budget & time frame.
I understand. I was just explaining my thinking for this particular hull, given it's current condition. I will edit it out as bad information.
 

cpenrose

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Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

I have to go to the glass, the gelcoat is cracked down the glass. Are csm and 1708 different than fiberglass? Just wondering because you said fiberglass, and csm, and 1708. By the way, don't worry about me caring about negative things, because in most cases they are true, espicially like this, since I am inpatient and i guess eager and you guys know what your talking about so usually I accept that I'm wrong.
 
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