1958 14' Fleetform

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

I understand. I was just explaining my thinking for this particular hull, given it's current condition. I will edit it out as bad information.

I don't think that's necessary. Again, someone who has experience may find that info helpful. I may not use that method, but I certainly will remember it, it may come up sometime now that I more fully understand what you were describing.

Else, it's all info, and opinions/options are good

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

I have to go to the glass, the gelcoat is cracked down the glass. Are csm and 1708 different than fiberglass? Just wondering because you said fiberglass, and csm, and 1708. By the way, don't worry about me caring about negative things, because in most cases they are true, espicially like this, since I am inpatient and i guess eager and you guys know what your talking about so usually I accept that I'm wrong.

Not wrong. It's like stupid questions... There just aren't any stupid questions. Esp not with regards to anything as time consuming, expensive and difficult as trying to rework & resto a 50+yr old boat....

CSM & 1708 are both fiberglass, just different types of fiberglass, with different uses, applications & characteristics.

I'll be online for a bit. Do me a favor & go look thru the link in WOG's signature line for fabrication of stringers deck & transom. You'll see 1708 & CSM listed in his graphics. And I'll look up some info for you while your gone. Ask me 1 question about the details you see at WOG's page after you look thru it.

Deal?

 

[matt167]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

I have to go to the glass, the gelcoat is cracked down the glass. Are csm and 1708 different than fiberglass? Just wondering because you said fiberglass, and csm, and 1708. By the way, don't worry about me caring about negative things, because in most cases they are true, espicially like this, since I am inpatient and i guess eager and you guys know what your talking about so usually I accept that I'm wrong.

It's all fiberglass.
CSM= Chopped Stranded Mat
1708= Biaxial cloth- used for structural repair

jbcurt00 beat me to it

 

[cpenrose]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

Ok then, how am I looking at the first pic of the transom. The one with the layers, like I don't understand what part of the transom Im looking at and I need to know that because you know it's a little important. Thank you very much, you've been by far the most devoted person to this thread and you've been the most helpful.

 

[matt167]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

I don't think that's necessary. Again, someone who has experience may find that info helpful. I may not use that method, but I certainly will remember it, it may come up sometime now that I more fully understand what you were describing.

Else, it's all info, and opinions/options are good

Well, if it becomes useful, I guess that's good. It was intriguing when someone showed me how to do it ( thin the filler ), but I'v done it on some small test things and it seems to work good.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

My ADHD likes a challenge

Ok so we're looking at this graphic:

You are standing in the boat & looking down at the transom.

What is your question? Until you get the parts down, reference the color

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

http://www.fiberglasssite.com/servlet/the-Learning-Center-cln-How-Much-Resin/Categories

there is helpful info there too. its a free download

 

[cpenrose]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

I don't know if this is what you were looking for, but I don't really have anymore questions besides this. Can I do my stringers like this or do I have to cut them at an angle to fit which I don't have the tools to do?

 

[cpenrose]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

And why is there two layers of ply, can I do a sandwich in the order ply,existing transom,ply?

 

[matt167]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

You don't want to put the plywood on the outside.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

You don't have to angle the stringers to match the angle of the hull. But that's because you do not want them to actually be in contact w/ the hull as you have drawn the stringer above. You need to leave a 1/4" gap between the bottom of your stringer & the hull, this area is filled w/ PB which beds the stringer to the hull. You'll need to use a cove fillet of PB along both sides of the stringer, this gives you a nice gentle curve for the fiberglass to roll from the hull up on to & over the stringers.

A metal spoon from the dollar store, NOT from the kitchen, dipped in acetone makes a nice smooth, rounded fillet.


For the transom, you'll want to cut 2 pieces of 3/4" exterior grade plywood (auraco if you can find it, pressure treated is not necessary or preferred) to fit your boats transom skin, on the inside, and leave a 1/4" gap at the bottom up off the hull.

Once you get the plywood (for transom & stringers you probably need 2 full 4X8 sheets) to the house, we can go over the details of how to handle it after you cut it to shape. You will want access to several gallons (5 minimum) of polyester resin, and several yards of CSM & 1708 before you start. There are other materials you will need once you start fabricating the plywood but just the plywood & a gallon of TiteBond3 (to get a gallon you may need to order it) will get you started.

Have you looked in to where you will get the fiberglass materials & polyester resin? Local would be great, but it will be lower quality resin & more expensive to use the polyester resin from HD or Lowes. And it has wax in it. Every time you allow the resin to cure, you would have to thoroughly wash everything down w/ soap & water, dry it & sand it to get the next layer to adhere properly.

Refresh my memory, do the stringers stand up similar to how you have them drawn? Weren't they laying down large flat side down?

And Matt is correct, the plywood will be laminated to each other, and once prepped, the plywood assembly will be installed on the interior side of the boat's transom skin.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

As I suggested before, I really think you should slow down and read and investigate and totally understand what your are going to be doing. It's not hard but it's detailed and you seem to be overlooking a lot of the details that have already been explained to you or are readily available here on the forum with some searching and reading.

 

[cpenrose]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

The stringers were laying down but it seems a lot stronger to put them upright. Is the deck included in the amount of ply? I thought I only needed it for the transom besides the deck. Right now, I have 2 2x2 sheets of 3/4 ply, 2 nice 2x4s and one sloppy 2x4. I also have about 5 yards of glass cloth tape and about a gallon of epoxy. I'll get it at us composites probably but my neighbor said a place near us has some I think.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

If you want to use epoxy, you can, but it forces you to use epoxy thru out the rebuild. Poly resin will not adhere well to epoxy.

No, only the stringers & transom. Start small But since your stringers were non-traditional, there may be enough ply left out of 2 full sheets to do the deck. Having 2 2X2 sheets will get your transom, and leave you some interesting shaped scraps. It is exterior grade plywood correct?

Your hull is shallow, raising the deck, even 'just 2in' changes the center of gravity, and raises your height relative to the gunwale when you are seated. In a shallow hull, the seat height can't be adjusted much. It may give you the impression of riding ON the boat instead of IN the boat.

Post some overhead shots of the boat, now that you've gutted it. It will help make a plan to fabricate & install stringers that will work w/ your hull. Close to original style or not.

Please review the fiberglass resin info I posted & WOG's links & drawings, and try to read thru the links & threads in the Don's how to list we've posted before.

Help us help you. You do your part, we'll do ours.

Deal?

 

[cpenrose]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

I'm going to cut the 2x4s so that they match the height of the bulkhead. I do have to tools to do that, just not a perfect angle down an 8 foot 2x4. The plywood is exterior grade I belive, not sure how to tell. Is there any disadvantages to using epoxy? Ill post pictures.

 

[matt167]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

Epoxy is a superior product except in cases where your working on a boat made with polyester resin. Once you go with epoxy, you stay with epoxy, and you'll need at least 4 gallons more than you have. It's also about 50% more in price than polyester, so you can save a lot of money and have it just as good.

 

[cpenrose]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

Still more sanding to do but I'll have that done this weekend, though I'll only have Friday since its tg tommorow and ill be fishing sat and sun. Just wondering, is this place fresh or saltwater dominated? I know whats left of stringers is probably not right. It'll all look like the last pic after I'm done, and I'm keeping the seat marks so I can glue it on. The sanding IS hard like you predicted. It gets so dusty I cant even see under that deck I think I'll just use the shop vac, and a light might help.... Should I get the outside sanded before I start construction on the inside, or semi finish the inside then do the outside? I think Ill use ployester resin, 125 bucks for 5 gallons, opposed to 400 for epoxy. Anyone want a gallon of epoxy and maybe 4/10 of a gallon of hardener for 35 bucks?No guaruntees... Doubt my parents will ship it though but its possible.

 

[sphelps]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

Stay positive and keep plugging away cpr ! Take these guys advise and listen cuss they all just want to lead you down the correct path .
I new nothing about boat restoration and with there guidance was able to do a pretty decent job so far on my build and so can you !
Have a great Thanksgiving and go catch a load of fish !
SP..

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

In NJ, in Nov, I think I'd stay w/ poly resin too since you are working in the yard. Epoxy has a longer cure time, so you'd have to keep the areas w/ wet epoxy above 60 for much longer then w/ the poly resin. Poly resin needs 8-12hrs at 60 degrees including all the parts that you are applying the resin to (the stringers, etc & hull)

Didn't we cover epoxy VS poly resin already?

If you don't know if it's exterior grade, we certainly don't. Interior plywood isn't always made w/ waterproof glue.

In a boat, which plywood would you prefer? Made w/ waterproof glue, or not made w/ waterproof glue.

 

[cpenrose]

Re: 1958 14' Fleetform

It doesn't say anything on the wood itself so I don't know. Obviously I would want waterproof. With the curing, like I said I can take my uncles truck out and put it in. Trust me, if it wasn't there the boat would have been in there since day 1.One of you will probably prove me wrong, but I don't belive we've talked about the pros and cons of polyester and epoxy. Go ahead and qoute... it amuses me anyway I did read my whole thread too...