Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

[12Footer]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

EDIT: Just found the quote and you're right.<br />Taken totally out of context,<br />This is what you claim I said:"That's what we should do to him.Drag him down Broadway durring(SIC) rush hour."<br /><br />not that it matters, Treblehook,but this is the REAL ENTIRE quote:.<br />Also worth noting ,is this post's original date (October 19, 2001)<br />We were all a bit raw back then. I still am.<br /><br />

What they do to American flyers over there is drag him thru rthe streets.I will NEVER get those pictures outta my head.<br />That's what we should do to him.Drag him down Broadway durring rush hour

<br /><br />Hmmm...A "deception"..I wonder what the Bible says about that. --not really,( I allready know,because I study it). As for "which is it?", your honor, If OBL was standing before me , I would not hesitate to drop him with a head shot. I was born with EXACTLY the same amount of free-will as you and everyone else. I am not God. I have no compunction to our military doing waht needs to be done, as I would rather have my family live than have him( or to watch his mutant horde) waste them. He has no right killing anybody iether. Understand that I will protect me and mine. <br />But I am a sinner, just as every other human, and will do what I think is best at any given time.<br />I reserve the right to sin. I reserve the right to not sin.I will kill for my country, or my family without hesitation (as, "he who hesitates doesn't live long enough for a clean shot").<br />But you will not judge my actions. Sorry. I answer to a real court.<br />But dragging the mutant scum behind a car would werk for me.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

BTW, in even another thread of my own posting, I told the tale of how I got drunk....The Bible teaches us that such behavior is a sin.<br />This should be proof positive that I am not God, or even supernatural or anything. Hmm.Aint it a wonder?

 

[12Footer]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

To sort of quote U-2, "the God I believe in don't hijack aircraft and fly them into buildings, mister". I'm paraphrasing, of course.

 

[1730V]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Faith in God is personal. My point has been that the rights to practice that personal faith peacefully are being eroded away. Claiming that faith in God did not have a pivotal role in the drafting of our founding documents is ludicrious and dangerous. Dangerous in the sense that if that fact can be pushed aside and guffawed so can every other historical fact.<br />When I was in school teachers were free to give their own opinions. It was up to us whether or not those opinions fit within the belief systems we learned from our families and circle of friends. They were opinions! <br />We have to remember that we are all human beings. At least I think everyone on this board is human. The actions of humans in the past cannot be used to judge an entire belief system. That is also is also dangerous. It is akin to believing that guns kill people not people kill people.<br />The man in question I believe was stating some historical facts not promoting his beliefs. We were not there so we do not know for sure. Do we? The reaction by the school may have been kneejerk. Again we do not know. It is difficult not to judge based upon the track record of the treatment of Christuian beliefs in the last 20 to 30 years. However I will hold my judgement and pray the teacher gets a fair and unbiased trial. We will see.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Hey 12fter dont let a troll get to ya........treblehook whoever you are being Christian doesnt mean you dont get mad and sometimes say things that might be a bit off. Some of you more knoledgable bible readers may be able to back me up on this or correct me if Im wrong but Peter chopped off an ear of one the men that took Jesus in the garden. Nobodys perfect.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

M/R, Satan's favorite tool is deception. I didn't get too mad at t-hook. And I'm not calling t-hook the devil, but wanted him to know that sometimes Satan uses us in those ways (of course,me included). So it gave me an opertunity to point-out that tool.<br />I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers, but I am good at that normally....Get me on a troll, and ---

 

[NYMINUTE]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Time to Ban California in its entirety. Those people are as lucid as flies. What embarrassment to the REAL AMERICANS.

 

[JamesCoste]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

mike and rhonda,<br /><br />You are exactly right. I believe it was Peter who cut off the soldier's ear, shortly before Christ, in turn, healed it.<br /><br />Peter was sincere about his devotion to Christ when he tried to protect Christ, but he was sincerely wrong to try to do so. Christ had just told his followers, including Peter, at the last supper that he would be "handed over to be crucified". He was also very sincere when he said multiple times that he would die for him only to shortly later, for fear of his life, deny Christ three times before morning (when the rooster crowed). Christ told Peter, "The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak" in Matthew 26:41.<br /><br />others,<br />Christians aren't perfect, we are just forgiven. Christ was perfect and that is why Christians depend on Christ's righteousness to count for us when we put our trust in Him for salvation.<br /><br />There is no hiding the fact that many wrong things (the crusades, slavery, etc.) over the record of history were done in the name of Christianity. I wish they didn't happen, but they did. It bothers me that many people try to ignore the early history of our country and the overwhelming belief in Christanity. I do agree that the facts should be shared and nothing more. Evangelism should be kept out of the schools (by teachers, administrators, etc.). My kids have every right to share their faith in school (at lunch, free-time, etc.) just as others of other faiths do. <br /><br />For me, I take it as my responsibility to teach my children what I believe. I share part of that responsiblity with those I choose to allow to teach them (in Sunday school and church). I don't want the schools teaching anything but the facts. <br /><br />The fact that many of our forefathers were Christians should be taught in schools. The fact that they might have believed that:<br />A - you must A dmit that you were a sinner<br />B - B elieve that Jesus died for your sins<br />C - C onfess your sins and ask Him to forgive you of them and for him to be Lord of your life.<br />should not be shared.

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

So, getting back to the issue here...<br /><br />How is one suppose to learn about American History, if he/she isn't allowed to view the Declaration of Independence?<br /><br />This is the very document that establishes this great country!<br /><br />How can the real American History be taught, if its eliminated from their studies?<br /><br />Oh, wait a minute, I get it, these libral teachers don't want your children to learn about the actual history of this country, they want to teach the version that they feel SHOULD be, the American History!<br /><br />This is not right!!

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Originally posted by KKC:<br /> This is not right!!

No, KKC, but it is fact!

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

So Boomyal,<br /><br />What your saying is that this is the type of education system that MY Government subsidizes at MY expense?<br /><br />Well then, if thats the case, I don't want even one cent of my tax contributions to go to this Anti-American History!<br /><br />It is really becomming clear, that this country is in the process of self-destruction, because of this type of idealogy!<br /><br />Time for us "True Americans" to take back our country from those who don't like it the way it is, and want to change it to their rediculous single-sided beliefs!<br /><br />Start gathering arms, ladies and gentleman, because the 2nd American Cival War, is about to begin!<br /><br />And, I'm willing to fire the first shot! Right between that Priciples eyes!

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Great post James.

 

[wilkin250r]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

One thing I didn't see mentioned in all the rantings was the age group of the students. Fifth grade, 10 years old. In my opinion, elementary school is not the place or age for political and religious debate.<br /><br />The article states that the teacher was required to submit his lesson plan and all handouts for prior approval. Perhaps there was a reason for this? Perhaps he was using his classroom for evangelism, under the guise of "true history". Perhaps the principle was removing all reference to God in order to remove all opportunity for this teacher to further his religious agenda.<br /><br />If the teacher was indeed guilty of ulterior motives, such actions could possibly (but unlikely) be overlooked at the high school level, as 15-18yr olds are capable of recognizing his preaching, and looking beyond it. But it doesn't belong in any public school, and CERTAINLY not at an age where the students are not able to discern between facts and evangelism.<br /><br />As said before, it's really difficult to condemn either the teacher or the school without additional information.

 

[1730V]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

The Declaration of Independence is an evangelism tool? Get real! It is a piece of American history. That fact is undeniable. I guess it can be deniable if you believe it is phony.<br />People sure are edgy.

 

[wajajaja]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

why do we assume all references to GOD is christian? <br /> the original topic allegeded discrimination against christianity.<br /><br />The claimant alleges discrimination, but does not illustrate what is allowed, i.e. does the principle tolerate references to the supreme maker by any other name, or with reference to any other religion

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Originally posted by KKC:<br /> So Boomyal,<br /><br />What your saying is that this is the type of education system that MY Government subsidizes at MY expense?<br /><br />Well then, if thats the case, I don't want even one cent of my tax contributions to go to this Anti-American History!<br /><br />It is really becomming clear, that this country is in the process of self-destruction, because of this type of idealogy!<br /><br />Time for us "True Americans" to take back our country from those who don't like it the way it is, and want to change it to their rediculous single-sided beliefs!<br /><br />Start gathering arms, ladies and gentleman, because the 2nd American Cival War, is about to begin!<br /><br />And, I'm willing to fire the first shot! Right between that Priciples eyes!

Calm down, KKC. I am agreeing wit chew. You stated that you could not believe what was happening and said it was not right. I simply said, in essence, it may not be right but it is (in fact) what they are doing. I'm on your side.

 

[wilkin250r]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Originally posted by 1730V:<br /> The Declaration of Independence is an evangelism tool? Get real! It is a piece of American history.

Of course it can be used as a tool for evangelism. If you want proof, read this very thread.<br /><br />

Originally posted by Boomyal:<br /> is the foundation of this country. This is what has maintained it. And this is what will maintain it in the future unless people of your ilk succeed in erasing all public acknowledgement to the part that God plays in the success, past, present and future of this country.

Originally posted by waterone1:<br />The founders, framers or what ever you wish to call the people that set this country on it's path to greatness all understood that a society without GOD will falter and die.

If you honestly believe that a reference to God in one of our key historical documents cannot be used for evangelism, you are naive. It may be difficult to come to grips with, but there are just as many right-wing whacko fundamentalists as there are left-wing whacko socialists. You will find close-minded ulterior motives on both sides if the political fence.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

I guess the Founders just threw all that "God Stuff" in there because it sounded good. They really didn't mean anything by it. Heaven forbid if someone, years later, thought there was anything to it. Sure better not ever say they, or anyone since, believed any of it, especially in a public place.<br /><br />After all, the Founders, who founded the greatest country the world has ever known, really weren't all that smart. They were just lucky that we ended up as we have. You know, rich in resources, yada, yada, yada.<br /><br />Huh, Wilkin? Is that the way it should of read? <br /><br />

 

[wilkin250r]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not out to erradicate all of Christianity. But I do firmly believe that a school is not a church, that topics of religion are not appropriate for 5th grade. If the teacher wants to present the Declaration of Independence as a historical document, that would be reasonable. But if the teacher wishes to highlight the reference of God and the role of Christianity in the foundation of this great nation, such material is NOT appropriate for 10 year olds.<br /><br />True, it's important to know not only historical documents themselves, but also the context in which they were written. I agree that the religious beliefs of the founding fathers is important, but not in 5th grade. Preaching and evangelism do not belong in ANY public school at ANY age, and topics of religion from a FACTUAL basis should be limited to ages where students are mature enough to make their own decisions regarding religion.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Wilkin fact or not? <br />Our country is a country founded on the beliefs of our fore fathers.<br />True or false? <br />They believed in thier God enough to put it in the declaration of independance.<br /><br />Its there deal with it. Its a fact. What your saying is in 5th grade that part should be left out? hmmmmmmmm. If we were to agree to that I bet with in 10 yrs it would be left out in all grades in 10 more yrs it would be completly forgotten by all the younger generations. How sad it would be.