Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

[12Footer]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

What Mikeandronda said. Besides, we did stray off-topic when Woodrat compared Christians to a band of terrorists.<br />It has less to do with Terrorism and homosexuals than it does trying to keep the country we established back in the beginning from continuing. They cannot revise this portion of history, so they will see to it that it is kept out of schools, so that the next generation SKIP such instruction when they become the teachers.This is my opinion, but not nesecarilly what went-down.We cannot know for sure yet. But, just as the very origins of Thanksgiving have been irreparibly altered, they DO seek to ban Christians from one historic reference after another. And those that can't be re-written will be filed-away where enquiring minds have no chance of knowing.<br />We will continue to counter every attack,in an attempt to preserve our history, country, and right to freedom of religion (what some of our ancestors fled England for in the first place).<br />We won't flea America. Let them leave, to find a new home to persicute the inhabitants of. Such tactics are done here, as of November 3rd.<br />Johnson-Liner brings-up a good point, in that we may not have the whole story here..Was the teacher teaching Christian doctrine? Did he make a concsious effort to refernce God as the creator somehow? I dunno. If so, atheist schools are not the place for such instruction. But you do not ban a document which is central to so very much of what this nation is, in the process! It deserves our strict attention. And if this act IS an assault on Christianity itself, it will be rectified in court.If not in court here, in court (let's just say) LATER.<br />If it is an asault on America's historic record, it will be soundly re-instated, because even the atheist court system cannot re-write it or ban it.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Originally posted by mattttt25:<br /> homos despise god and religion? since when did that become fact? wait, maybe because these "organized religions" hate them and turn their back on another human? is there a chance they live their lives properly and pray in their own homes, because they are not welcome in the almighty church?

You, as others, continue to manufacture attributes of Christianity for the sole purpose of being able to denigrate it. It is purely a Liberal tactic to rid society of a competing, distracting allegiance. It is exactly what Marx and Lenin did. They knew that you could not have absolute allegence to the State if Christianity was present.<br /><br />God does not hate homosexuals, he simply finds their behavior abomidable.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

As for the homo-factor, most churches established on the Bible don't ban anyone, including homos. They don't exalt straight folks iether. See, most churches do not address the bedroom. At least, it's not thier mission, or ministry. Some gays have even raised hell enough to get some churches to cater souly to homosexual congragations---saw it myself on the alphabet news once.<br />My particular church teaches that my dog won't go to heaven. I have not come to grips with this yet, nor do I feel capable of comming to grips with it. But I'm not going to challenge the teacher. I'll wait and ask God about it when I see him<br /> (Maybee he can arrange something). So let's not go there. it's off-topic, just as Islamic terrorists and gays are. It's not about them. It's about me and other Americans of my faith, be they homo or erectus, and our inclusive history.

 

[waterone1@aol.com]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

It is so sad to see what this country has become. Years ago we had "minor" differences. We used to debate which auto maker was beter, was it GM or Ford ? Every American imigrant group had "slang" names for each other "Krauts, Dago's, Jew's, etc." and when among "our" people, we would use those names. Every religion thought that "we" were the right one's. We even debated what the best dance and type of music was.<br />But when push came to shove, or when we were attacked.....that all went out the window ........We Were Americans. It didn't matter what your religion was, where your family came from or for that matter what car you drove, if America was under attack, everyone united and fought together arm in arm. I bet there were many republicans that thought JFK was quite a man.<br />Here we are today, and while some people ask why can't we all agree? Why are we fighting each other? Some people remember or were taught about responsibility, self sacrifice and the difference between right and wrong. Unfortunately, others in this country today were taught to do whatever felt good to them, learned how to blame everyone else, and learned to take the easiest path for everything. And to make a stand for everything that means nothing.<br />The silent majority has sat back,hoped people would find their way, and tried not to tread on anyone else's rights. We have watched this country slide as far down as we can stand and we will not be silent anymore!! <br />It is not our children that we fear haven't been taught the true history of this country (we have been teaching them at home all along) it is your children(the one's you didn't abort), the poor neglected children that have been raised by parents too stoned to know what real responsibility is. We realize that our kids will need your kids to keep this country alive and great. We somehow need to find a way to undo everything you have taught them. So, please exuse us if we simply want the truth to be taught in schools about our history. You may be to stoned, or to stupid to realize that Christian/Judeo values are what brought people to this country and kept this country great....we have not forgotten!!

 

[woodrat]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

you know 12, it was you who declared how glad you were that it was becoming harder to be a non-christian in america. i made an exteme example out of the taliban thing, and you guys all started having aneurisms over it. <br /><br />Still, you are advocating writing your religion into law as the only solution for america's ills, and I have heard the complaint before that until the godless liberals ruined everything, america had no serious problems like we do now.<br /><br />I am certain from my little reading about the taliban that they were coming from much the same place. Their society was falling apart and becoming too contaminated with "western" (read "liberal") ideas, and they felt that a forced return to basic fundamental religious values was the solution, and they implemented it.<br /><br />And I am certain that there are plenty of american christians who feel the same way, and would love to be able to implement a fundamentalist christian government here in the US. Whether the american fundamentalist christian movement would do everything exactly the same as the taliban did is silly and irrelevent. Of course they wouldn't. Burqas, for example, are not a part of american history. But there were plenty of god fearing americans in the sixties lamenting the existence of miniskirts and bikinis as the beginning of the end.<br /><br />BTW, NOSLEEP, where do you get your singular facts about homosexuals? 'Cause they are blatantly wrong. Homosexuals are pretty much like everyone else. Some of them no doubt "hate god" as you assert, and some of them go to church and pray alongside straight people every sunday. The very talented organ player at my parents' church for many years was about as much of a flamer as one can get. Fortunately for him, it was a pretty tolerant congregation of mellow methodists, and they all politely looked the other way about his being gay.<br /><br />Unfortuantely, I will be out of internet range for the next week or so, so I will miss the chance to receive my bashing as it happens. Dang!

 

[12Footer]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Bush won. So, perhaps we will finally find out if keeping the word,"GOD" in our historic documents will be a good thing for my country. All I know from a 52 year-old American perspective, Woodrat, is that your experiment with socialism in this country has failed miserably, and has just about run it's course.<br />FINALLY, a majority to work with, that just might make the difference in being able not only to preserve what you left us, but to maybee even re-establish our roots in religous freedom.<br />I have never made it a secret that I have no love for the studies and folowings of Santorian,satanic,muslim,or wickan religions, but have nothing but love for those who are lost in that folowing. I pray for thier souls often. And in my country, you are allmost powerless over thier control, just as you are over my religous control. Me and many like me, will fight for our rights to co-exist for a change.No longer will we "turn the other cheek", and let judges tell us what documents we may keep, and what documents must be purged due to thier content. It's a glorious new day! God Bless America!

 

[12Footer]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

"Their society was falling apart and becoming too contaminated with "western" (read "liberal") ideas,"

<br />Read into things how ever you would like. But the bible cannot be read-into..I have no first-hand knowledge of the Koran, nor (after 9/11/01), do I give a dam.

 

[Bassy]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

As a teacher I will teach religion as it is involved in cultures,history,science and literature. My beliefs are not taught. That's how it is. Beliefs are taught outside of school.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

And who can find fault with that,Bassy? That is as it should be. As a teacher tho, you are on the front lines of these assaults. Don't allow them to get away with revisionism.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Originally posted by Bassy:<br /> As a teacher I will teach religion as it is involved in cultures,history,science and literature. My beliefs are not taught. That's how it is. Beliefs are taught outside of school.

That is the way it should be. However, without knowing for sure, I suspect that this incident is another example of the Left attempting to erase ANY evidence of the existance of Christianity and the part it has played in this Nation. It would not at all be uncharacteristic if it is. <br /><br />On the other hand if the teacher was overstepping his/her bounds, then censure is called for.

 

[lakelivin]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Originally posted by 12Footer:<br /> ...My particular church teaches that my dog won't go to heaven....

12, not to disrespect your religion, but IMHO common sense tells me that if dogs can't be there, it's not heaven. <br /><br />There was a Twilight Zone episode where an old man was wandering the countryside after he died. He came to 'Heavens gates' where the 'gatekeeper' tried to talk him into coming through but told him his dog had to stay out. The old man decided to keep wandering rather than leave his companion. He shortly thereafter ran into another traveller who informed him that those weren't the real Gates to Heaven and that the 'gatekeeper' had tried to trick him. He then showed the old man the direction to the real gates, where his dog would be as welcome as he was.<br /><br />I'm not trying to disrespect your religion by comparing it with an old tv show. But given the number of religions in this world I believe that the odds of any one of them being 100% accurate in all tenants and beliefs is close to zero. Maybe this is one tenant where yours might be mistaken. There are certainly other things that would be alot worse!

 

[Bassy]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

California State standards- 5th grade History <br />- Look at standard 5.4 and 5.5. <br /><br />Here is what this teacher should be teaching. Stick with the standards and don't veer to far off of them or you are in trouble. If you spend too much time on one religion then you need to modify your lessons to include other ones too. If you want to talk about the founding fathers being Christian go ahead, but also teach what other religions were represented too. Gotta protect yourself. If you want to teach Christianity all day there are schools that will allow you to do that, but they are not public schools.<br />Bassy

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

The reason for animals not being in heaven has caused much argument but as I had it explained to me there are three things in us and only two in them(animals) We both have physical body and we both have souls, But when God breathed life into us in the begining the Holy spirit came into us. Animals were created different.They were givin life....life was breathed into us by God and doing so set us aside from all other creation. 12 fter dont Worry our father would never allow us to suffer after we go home and when you are there you will be fine with whatever God has chosen for our fine furred friends. As for teaching History, the victors tend to make up what they want the public to learn, If the Liberal left gets their way I bet in 200 yrs there would be no mention of our founding fathers all being Christian and the history books prolly will then say they were athiests. For all my Christian brothers and sisters here the good book says the closer we get to the end times the more we will be percicuted.....well maybe being Christian was never suposed to be the popular thing. Jesus himself was percicuted I guess we should expect no different from those around us.

 

[Rudderman]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

I can't believe I'm saying this but I have to agree with mikeandronda. Although I am a little bit concerned at the moment with religion being used as a political tool sometimes, you can't just wipe religion off the map either because it was part of the basis on which your country was formed.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Interesting thread, this pole is 10 foot long, and it is still not long enough to touch this one with.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

My problem with christianity and for that matter most religious groups is that they sincerely believe that they own the final wisdom and without them there is no future.Please keep your faith in your own heart and soul and let your behavior be guided by it.Do not pretend that you own this country or its history and remember that it was the church that burnt people alive on the stake in order to save their souls.<br />JB you are probably sick of this thread, but if you read this,you should know that you have my support.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Then you should have no "problem" with Christianity, because that is a twisted view of what Christians are. We do not burn people at stakes, hijack jet aircraft, heavy with innocent souls,and fly them into buildings full of innocent souls. We don't sacrifice goats. We don't stick pins in dolls. We don't drink poison-laced coolade enmass ,or commit mass suicide to meet God on some comit. We harm nobody. We are instructed NOT to, even we if wanted to.<br />Let's equate your "knowledge" of this subject with your knowledge of the latest GE jet aircraft engine;<br />For all I know, you know more about that than I do. But let's say you are building a craft using this engine for it's power source....Would you not want to know EVERYTHING about it?Would you like facts or RUMOURS on this engine's operational parameters?<br />Christianity, Just like everything else in life, has an "instruction manual"....A right way and a wrong way! You don't get Chrysler trigger coil specs from a Johnson Seahorse Shop Manual, do you??<br /><br />As Christians, we congregate in the church of our choice, worship God as one (called the "body" or "congregation" of the church) , contribute to the church so that it will be there next Sunday, read from the bible, help those amoung our body get over life's humps monetarily and emotionally,and stuff like that. <br />We are harmless to you, tall buildings, jet aircraft, muslims, santorians et al. We only ask to be given the primary freedoms to continue to meet in peace, and the preservation of our historic record,be it the bible, or the constitution.<br />I'm a little sick of this thread too, yet,I feel compelled to set the record straight,due to the damage caused by someone being misled (lied to) by the wrong "expert", as it pretains to Christianity, every other time I read another post here. I'm no expert iether, but do study the "subject" every chance I get. <br />I will continue to vouch for my faith and the rights to worship it. As a Christian, I ,in no way, want to rule your life, or impose on your beliefs. But be aware, that I will protect my rights every time they are challenged here by some mis-led version of Christianity ,comparing us to OBL, and our faith to that of the taliban.<br />For you or any other non-Christian to post misleading material of what Christians are,what they stand for, misleads those who do not know the truth iether . <br />Is this your intent? I really don't think it is. And yet, there can be no doubt, the reuslts are the same. Just imagine some young child reading our posts, and getting the twisted version as gospel, as opposed to the word of God, the words of the bible (a imperfect document translated and written by men, but it is better than the alternative). And I do not want to mislead anyone here iether. But I am in a positition to know for fact what my faith is about, or at minimum,more so than somebody who doesn't even open-up the "manual". It's my faith. Not yours. You are not in any way, the judge of that faith. You post a line of BS about what Christians are, and you can expect swift and total rebuttal. If you are at all interested in learning about it, go to the church of your choice, and find out.Ask questions there. Just as if you were interested in the curing time of "EZpoxy", you do a google for PETIT's website to get the facts....but hey -<br />it's YOUR BOAT, dood.<br /><br />I urge you before commenting on Christianity, find out what it is at minimum.

 

[lakelivin]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Neutral observation:<br /><br />You all will never reach an end to this conversation because you are talking in generalities and there is SO much variation both within Christianity and outside of it. <br /><br />I've heard things from some extreme fundamentalist Christians that make me believe that if they had their way they might indeed duplicate some of the behaviours exhibited by the Taliban (complete intolerance for any that don't share their views). On the other hand, this is fortunately a small minority of all Christians and to make a generalized statement equating Christians with the Taliban is ridiculous. <br /><br />I have a feeling that many of the posters on this thread are talking at 'different levels'. Some are refering to extreme fringes of some religious groups while others are refering to the entire group as a whole. By it's nature, such a discussion can never be resolved.

 

[TrebleHook]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

12footer, In a another thread you said about OBL<br /><br />

That's what we should do to him.Drag him down Broadway durring(SIC) rush hour.<br />

But in this thread you said

We harm nobody. We are instructed NOT to, even we if wanted to.<br />

Which is it. You can't have it both ways.

 

[aspeck]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

LakeLivin, Gotta agree with you. And for the Dec of Indepedence Ban, we DON'T know enough info from this thread. I have heard some other news about it, and most of what I have heard is that the teacher was pointing out that we IN FACT were, as a nation, founded on Judeo/Christian principles. If that was the case, then he should not have been sued. If the teacher was trying to evangelize in school, then teacher should be punished.<br /><br />Either way does not change the fact that we were founded on principles that should never be forgotten. If they are, then we are doomed as a nation. If we don't know where we have been, we will never know where we are going.