Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

[woodrat]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

This was my question, 12:<br /><br />"what exacly do you mean then, when you imply that it is a good thing that it is becoming harder to be a non-christian in america? Why would you consider that to be a good thing? "<br /><br />with all of your redundant keypecking, you didn't answer it.<br /><br />personally, I think that ALL fundamentalists, regardless of stripe, have a least a little bit of that Taliban urge in them. That is, the urge to FORCE others to comply with your belief system. And from my standpoint, a good example of where christians are trying to FORCE others to comply, is the fight to overturn Roe v. Wade. As far as I'm concerned, you or any other believer, have no right to write your biblical beliefs into the law. If you are opposed to abortion, then don't partake of it, and you are free to speak out against it. But when you try to pass a law that would force everyone to comply with what you believe, then you have overstepped the bounds.<br /><br />That's My opinion, and I'm still free to voice it.<br /><br />Now, would you care to answer my original question?

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Ya know, I'm just gonna say this and be done with the exercise in futility that is this discussion.... <br /><br />For the believers, when it comes right down to it, it's just you and your maker.... Not you, me and your maker, and not you and the rest of society, just you and your maker... Leave me out of the equation and there's no problem cause frankly society and I don't care what ya believe.....<br /><br />Peace out....

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Woodrat, you do not have a clue as to what makes the world go around!<br /><br />

As far as I'm concerned, you or any other believer, have no right to write your biblical beliefs into the law.

No, maybe not a few believers, woodrat. But a majority of the people who happen to believe a certain way, have every right to turn their beliefs into law. And don't give me the slavery issue, either. <br /><br />What should not be allowed is a few people coming up with a certain belief, then getting the Judicial system to make laws. That is exactly what has happened regarding abortion. There is absolutely nothing in the Constitution that protects killing soon to be born babies. No matter how you twist it. There was everything in the Constitution to abolish slavery.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Originally posted by woodrat:<br /> This was my question, 12:<br /><br />"what exacly do you mean then, when you imply that it is a good thing that it is becoming harder to be a non-christian in america? Why would you consider that to be a good thing? "<br /><br />with all of your redundant keypecking, you didn't answer it.

<br />I stated; "and this is a bad thing?" (regarding your statement that "it is becomming harder to be a non-Christian in America).<br />I stated this, because I believe in God. The more like-minded people there are, the less persicution will be suffered by assaults on American historic documentation, prayer in public, mentioning the words, "Under God" in the Pledge of alegiance to our flag, ad-nauseum. Majority means mandate in my country still.<br /><br />We fight for our faith every day. We go to court in often-vien atempts to keep our religious beliefs where they exist, without your judges re-writing the law, as opposed to ruling on it!<br />Did I answer it yet?<br />Where do you socialists get your marching-orders from? What posesses your opposition to God?<br />I'm allmost afraid to find out what the true answer to that would be.<br />But you surely won't answer that one.<br /><br />

Originally posted by woodrat:<br /><br />personally, I think that ALL fundamentalists, regardless of stripe, have a least a little bit of that Taliban urge in them. That is, the urge to FORCE others to comply with your belief system. And from my standpoint, a good example of where christians are trying to FORCE others to comply, is the fight to overturn Roe v. Wade.

<br />You removed prayer from public schools. You then, sanction murder with Rowe-vs-wade, where laws are written from the bench,BLATENTLY,AND IN BROAD DAYLIGHT,LEGISLATING FROM OUR JUDICIAL BRANCH! This was ilegal at it's LEAST! and immoral in the eyes of God, who gave the sixth of ten commandments Christians live by. That being, "Thall shalt not Kill" That means we are not allowed to kill.That means, your rowe-vs-wade is unconstitutional, in that it allows for legalized murder.Also, it has not been legislated, but merely "ruled-lawfull". Again, legilating from the bench ,or "ruling unlawfull" is against the law..pure and simple. You want to kill babies? Fine. Get congress to write it into law. But you'll need a majority..hmmm. <br />NOW, I know why you're afraid of <br />Christians!<br /><br /><br />

Originally posted by woodrat:<br /><br />There are reasons such as that ONE, for the seperation of powers. As far as I'm concerned, you or any other believer, have no right to write your biblical beliefs into the law. If you are opposed to abortion, then don't partake of it, and you are free to speak out against it.<br />

<br />Fudementally, I disagree. We DO have the right to petition to change whatever law thru LEGISLATION (due process). <br />See, the difference should hit you here like a sack of rotten potatoes upside the haid--- LEGISLATION, not TRYING on laws WRITTEN from the bench!<br />Get it yet?<br />You (or any judge) have NO right to redefine the laws we must adhere to from a courtroom. It is bass/ackwards, which is why it is unconstitutional in the first place!<br /><br />

Originally posted by woodrat:<br /> But when you try to pass a law that would force everyone to comply with what you believe, then you have overstepped the bounds.

<br />When we try to PASS a law, we are at minimum GOING-THRU DUE PROCESS as laid-out in our constitution ,as opposed to your subversive attempts to rewrite it from a courtroom!<br />Sooner or later,this movie you are watching will end, I hope!<br /><br /><br />

Originally posted by woodrat:<br />That's My opinion, and I'm still free to voice it.<br /><br />Now, would you care to answer my original question?

Nobody is silencing you. And you will not silence me. <br />You equate United States Christians with Talaban! I know all I care to about your beliefs on this topic. And Bush still won. Thank God! God bless america!

 

[woodrat]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Boomyal:<br /><br />And there is nothing in the constitution that directs the feds to proscribe AGAINST abortion, either.<br /><br />So if its about the constitution, the abortion ban is a dead issue.

 

[woodrat]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

12, <br /><br />I am not a socialist, and I get no marching orders from anyone, unlike you who get them from your party and your church.<br /><br />I have no opposition to God, what I oppose is institutional religion and its tendency to want to force compliance with its interpretation of "god's" word, through legislation or otherwise. I am free to not buy into your Christian mindset, and I cannot be free from that if you and your ilk are free to impose Leviticus on the rest of society (only certain parts of leviticus though. I notice no movement to ban mixed fiber clothing, or clean shaven faces). <br /><br />If the judiciary has no place in it, then why are the fundies so upset that arlen spector might not give all the anti abortion judicial nominees a free pass? Because they want to legislate this from the bench as well, because they know that even now, if it were put to a clean vote tomorrow, a ban on abortion would not pass. <br /><br />legalized murder? Give me a break! There were plenty of christians on this forum cheering on the illegal, but understandable, execution of an unarmed man and going so far as to call for gas and nukes. How much murder would that be? <br /><br />I think that the christian right wing is just a little too obsessed with other people's sexual practices, and that that has an awful lot more to do with the anti abortion thing than "thou shalt not kill" does. It doesn't say, "thou shalt not kill unless...." does it?<br /><br />Anyway, this is fast becoming an off-topic dead end and I am pretty sick of even discussing this stuff with you guys. You are so convinced of your righteousness that there is really no room for even a difference of opinion. I know from a lifetime of dealing with, listening to and talking with christians of all kinds that there are plenty of them who would be overjoyed to implement a fundamentalist chrsitian state, and when you guys yammer on about writing your religious beliefs into law and forcing the rest of us to go along, and how happy you are to make non-christians uncomfortable in their own society, well, that just reinforces my belief that the American Taliban is certainly a possibility, if not a likelyhood.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

BS! You "have no opposition to God", yet you equate his followers to TALIBAN?! right. The movie is over dood.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

And I read no further than that line of bull.

 

[woodrat]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

totally and deliberately mis-construing what i said.<br /><br />BTW, the Taliban WERE God's followers, as far as they were concerned...

 

[woodrat]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Originally posted by 12Footer:<br /> And I read no further than that line of bull.

Gee, why am I not surprised...

 

[NOSLEEP]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Jb, woodrat what a pitiful excuse for a reply.<br />You are a sorry soul. <br />It is a singular fact that most homosexuals<br />despise religion and God. <br />Tell us more.

 

[woodrat]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

it is probably more of a "singular fact" that most of the taliban were in complete agreement with many american christians when it comes to homosexuals. So what?<br /><br />God, save us from your followers!

 

[NOSLEEP]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

I see you are also a taliban expert woodrat.<br />I actually dont have any followers, save my family. <br />So it appears your just anti religion, or does<br />religion just have no place for you.

 

[Rudderman]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

I think the comparison to the Taliban is quite acceptable to a certain degree. <br /><br />For example, you don't cut off people's hands and fingers when they do wrong....you just KILL them with injections and electric chairs. Tell me who is worse?<br />Why not just stick them in jail until they die and then let god deal with them?<br />Whatever happened to "Thou shalt not kill" ? <br />Its a simple un-ambiguous commandment.<br />Seems to me that a warped version of Christianity is being practiced just like the Taliban practiced a warped version of the Muslim faith.<br /><br />I know, I know, you've already told me that my opinion doesn't count, but I just love imagining you all going red in the face

 

[1730V]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Rudderman<br /><br />Give it a rest. Christains the same as the Taliban? Where are the Christian rape and torture rooms? Women wearing burkas not allowed to vote, have their faces shown, work! Is that what you really want?<br />We Christians no longer have the right to practice our faith in public. I thought that was what the first amendment was all about. Not pornography as our judicial legislators seem to think it is.<br />You can join us or shun us. We would welcome you with open arms. The Faith doesn't hurt and it doesn't cost anything. It is just a sense of aspiring to a great calling. We have our beliefs regardless of what you have the right to think and talk about openly. We have just as much right to practice them as anyone does to shout us down. We are mad because that right is eroding away.<br />Killing? Let us talk about that. <br />Everyone is given the same chance to do right or wrong. When someone takes advantage of that chance to infringe upon innocents they lost their right to be amongst society. I prefer jail time. It gives the sinner time to repent and reap his just rewards for doing so. Something inside me tells me you may not agree with the forgiveness thing if it directly affected you.<br />Your opinion does indeed count. Whatever made you think it does not. An election? Your vote carried exactly the same weight as mine.

 

[johnson-liner]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Until we see an article describing exactly what it was that this teacher was teaching, it's hard to comment on this. Historical documents are a part of history (including history class) and should taught whether they have references to Christianity, Budhism, Muslim faith, or Satin worshiping. <br />You've been presented an article that is basically nothing but a blurb that tells zero specifics (other than a lawyer). The principal may have had it out for this teacher (who was doing nothing more than teaching a part of history that included references to god) for other reasons and was just looking for some way to get him canned. Or, this teacher was using his history class as a convenient place to preach his faith and was justly barred from the school.<br />Some here are so completely transparent in your responses to this thread and others, it is disgusting. On both sides, if the article presented suites your personal agenda, you apparently find it completely rock solid and believable and you don't have the need to see more specifics. On the other hand, if it is the most specific, detailed account of events but does not go along with your specific agenda, you need more information, no doubt more and more until you can at least build a half arguement from even unreliable sources. How true the saying is that people will only listen to/believe what they WANT to hear.<br /><br />So to half of the responders to this thread, in order to teach history, references to religion HAVE TO BE INCLUDED....deal with it.<br /><br />An to the other half, it IS A BAD THING if it is "getting harder to be a non-christian" because that would mean other religions were being persecuted....deal with it.

 

[1730V]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

johnson-liner<br /><br />Unfortunately we may never see that information. If it is ever reported recent history tells us that may very well may be one sided.<br />I agree totally that history should be taught as it happened not with a agenda laden slant. As Sergeant Friday used to say. Just the facts mam.<br />As a Christian we see our rights of free speach and the right to practice our beliefs being eroded away by non elected officials. The elected officials, except for the president, will not touch it. It is too much of a hot potato. The last election proved that many agree with him. With that I agree that it should not be forced upon anyone. Yet everyone should have the right to make that choice without reprisal.<br />The way things are going it is OK to talk about islam, buddism, satanism, secularism, atheism just not Christianity. I view that as very exclusionary. I think any logical mind would come to the same conclusion which I think you do.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Guys, yall are getting way off topic.<br /><br />If it so offends you that this country was founded by god fearing men, then I suggest you leave.<br /><br />You are more than welcome to stay. We will not force you to go to church, pray, or do any relgious act. We only ask you to tolerate hearing and seeing us do these things. I promise in turn to tolerate hearing and seeing you practice your religion (I am counting atheism as a religion).<br /><br />Just dont ask us to rewrite history.<br /><br />Ken

 

[mattttt25]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

homos despise god and religion? since when did that become fact? wait, maybe because these "organized religions" hate them and turn their back on another human? is there a chance they live their lives properly and pray in their own homes, because they are not welcome in the almighty church?

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Declaration of Independence banned from ELEMENTARY SCHOOL?!!?!?

Matt maybe "Organized religion" as you put it hates them but GOD Loves them. And please dont think all Christians hate Gays.....not true. Hate what they do yes, hate them no. Any church that does what you say is not following Gods way.