Where do I belong? Alum Goods 1687, SS16 Clone?

[renns]

Here's a couple pics of the rib-ends I referred to in previous post. Starboard side is pretty much bang on, +- 1/16". Port side is consistently low 3/16" to 1/4"

 

[ShoestringMariner]

SSM - no worries, hijack away! More traffic on my thread is always welcome.

One issue I found yesterday while working the floor, is that the rib ends on the port side are low by about 1/4". I'm not sure what's caused that, but it does seem consistent across the half dozen ribs I checked. Those longitudinal members (do they have a name?) were loose in my boat due to wet foam freezing and pulling the pop rivets. I re-riveted back into the original location, so I don't know what the cause is, but I'm tempted to just put a 1/4" strip of shim material of some type along the underside of the floor on port side, and call it day. That does screw up rivet length though... 1/4" shim + 5/8" ply + .080 rib = nearly 1"! Or maybe those crimped ends of the ribs could be 'tweaked' back up a bit? Thoughts and recommendations welcome here.

Got a pic of your “crimped” rib ends? Mine a stamped and rounded.
My stringers were loose also. I initially thought it was from flex, but your idea makes much more sense. Any flex would have been minute. And if your foam was as waterlogged-heavy as mine, that’s a lot of powerful expansion. I must have tossed 250lbs of weight out of mine.

If you need longer pop rivets, Spae-naur in Kitchener is a good, close supplier if you need a handful of longer rivets in a hurry. Though if you have a Bolts + near you, they could have them next day if not in stock. I find them to be much better than Brafasco and almost anyone is better than Fastenal.

 

[ShoestringMariner]

Here's a couple pics of the rib-ends I referred to in previous post. Starboard side is pretty much bang on, +- 1/16". Port side is consistently low 3/16" to 1/4"View attachment 354295View attachment 354296

I see what you mean now. Are your stringers the same height on both sides?
Two options come to mind;
1) laminate a strip of 1/4” thick ply to the underside of your floorboard
2) rivet small pieces of 1/4” aluminum sheared plate or flat bar to the rib ends. I’ve got some 6061 or 3003 that you are welcome to have. (Might be 2 plys of 1/8”) or you can get 5052 at Golden Triangle Specialty Metals in Cambridge or Metal Supermarkets if closer to you. (GTS is my first choice over MS)
In both cases, you will still need longer rivets.

 

[renns]

SSM - Thanks for the thoughts. I think I'll just glue on a wood strip like you described in option #1.

I finished up the fitting of the plywood deck panels today. Pedestal holes are done, reinforcement pieces under the deck are finished as well. Now just sanding/re-inspecting the inner hull prior to Coat-it application.

 

[MNhunter1]

I personally wouldn't worry too much about the rib ends with that small of a difference. The plywood decking will flex a bit and get pulled tight with the rivets. Might have even been done intentionally to shed water and prevent standing water from pooling in the center of the deck??

 

[renns]

I personally wouldn't worry too much about the rib ends with that small of a difference. The plywood decking will flex a bit and get pulled tight with the rivets. Might have even been done intentionally to shed water and prevent standing water from pooling in the center of the deck??

Yeah, I suppose that could be the case. I was kind of thinking to have the deck more concave, with low section down the center to run water straight back to the bilge. I'll take another look once the Coat-it exercise is complete. It also ties in somewhat to the vinyl flooring install option I choose, and I see you have a reply for me in my other thread. Off I go to read that one. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts!

 

[ShoestringMariner]

Yeah, I suppose that could be the case. I was kind of thinking to have the deck more concave, with low section down the center to run water straight back to the bilge. I'll take another look once the Coat-it exercise is complete. It also ties in somewhat to the vinyl flooring install option I choose, and I see you have a reply for me in my other thread. Off I go to read that one. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts!

Something @classiccat (I think) said about coatings on aluminum concerns me and my repaint plans. This thread is something you might want to see if you are thinking about using coat-it. https://forums.iboats.com/threads/1974-starcraft-21’-holiday.752987/#post-5731831
Just in case it might trap moisture on your hull.

 

[renns]

I've seen similar discussions about the bedliner products. The Coat-It is epoxy-based, so I'm thinking it's more like Gluvit or G-Flex and hopefully isn't susceptible to those issues. (fingers crossed now!!).

 

[ShoestringMariner]

I've seen similar discussions about the bedliner products. The Coat-It is epoxy-based, so I'm thinking it's more like Gluvit or G-Flex and hopefully isn't susceptible to those issues. (fingers crossed now!!).

I hope I’m not trying to sour your plans. Just trying to help. Product might be just fine. (I hear “coat” and automatically think thick coating

 

[MNhunter1]

Yes, Coat-it is a very similar product to Gluvit. Used on the inside seams and rivets as a sealant, not necessarily a cover coat. Coal Tar Epoxy is something completely different, although I'm not exactly sure what that is. I know it's often used to coat aluminum gas tanks and have seen some use it to "paint" the inside of their hull as a potential added layer of protection, but I can see the concerns with moisture getting trapped.

 

[Moserkr]

Just got caught up on your thread here and will be tagging along.

My boat came with a layer of coat-it covering the entire bottom of the boat, not just the rivets. I can tell you it has excellent adhesion and can only be sanded off. I dont see water ever getting through it, and mine is painted over now. On the coat-it can, their directions actually say for use on the outside of the hull, and it has uv protectants. Paint stripper didnt phase it, and it only chipped off where I had a broken rivet. Sands well, then I recoated all replaced rivets on the outside, covered all rivets below waterline with my own round of coat-it on the inside, and covered everything on the transom as well in coat-it. I only get a few drops of water from where the screws went through the hull for the motor and Ill fix that issue with good ole 5200.

Now even epoxy/fiberglass can delaminate and trap water so Ill keep an eye on the outside of my hull. But im not worried and figure it could be 20 years before thats an issue.

Good luck with your look-a-like build!

 

[renns]

Thanks for the replies folks. The interest and guidance is greatly appreciated! I'm away from the boat this week, but hope to get back at it this weekend. One more inside hull inspection, and then it's time to start fitting the xps foam pieces in place. I built a hot-wire cutter a few years back for cutting foam. I may need to rig up something similar again for this job. We'll see how the 'jenga' process works out.

 

[renns]

OK, I got a couple hours in on the boat project today. The three main deck pieces are complete. What remains is the short piece under the splashwell. They have all received multiple coats of the Old Timer's Formula, allowed to dry for a week, and got their first coat of oil-based paint today. Between mixing up OTF and painting, I've used up lots of leftovers from the basement, which is great!


The Coat-it has cured nicely. I applied it to pitted/corrosion areas on the inside of the hull, seams along the splash rail, and to exposed rivet tails protruding directly through the hull only. I didn't bother applying to the ribs, as I figured the odds of the Coat-It getting under the rib, around the leaky rivet, and into the actual leak area were pretty slim. Plus I found no leaks on those anyways.
I've started fitting the foam in place also. Through the mid-section, I have 2 layers 2", and outside the stringers just the single layer as can be seen on starboard side below. Total volume of foam under the deck will be about 9 cubic feet, which is assisted by the existing thick spray foam along the sides and under the splashwell, which I'd estimate about the same volume. I could fiddle around with thinner foam sheets and get some more volume under the deck, but I'm thinking this should be adequate.


In another thread I started about Nautolex, I asked a couple questions about the use of nutplates under the stringers, and also strategies for locating the holes in deck to align with the proper locations on the ribs. If anyone has thoughts, a reply here or there would be appreciated!

 

[renns]

I re-worked the foam panels under the deck to increase the foam fill percentage a bit, up over 10 ft^3 of foam now. I managed to get a form-fitted third piece of 2" foam in the middle section, while still leaving enough space for water to flow over the rib if needed. I also had to trim a bit around the doubler pieces that go under the pedestals. I'm not sure if it shows well in the pics due to the glossy black paint, but two holes of the six mounting holes in each pedestal actually pass right through the stringer. Those black painted pieces in the pictures are the 5/8 ply doublers with those 4-pronged tee-nuts embedded in the underside. The plan is to position the deck panel in place over the doubler, and then use the pedestal machine screws to pull the double up from the bottom, and the deck board down from the top, pinching the flange of the stringer. That should give a very rigid pedestal, as it will be integrally tied to the stringer, rather than just the deck board itself. I'm not sure how fiddly it's going to be to get everything in alignment. My test fits have gone well, and the foam underneath holds those doublers up into position nicely, so I'm hoping it will be straight forward. The doubler also extends back under the next piece of decking, to sort of key them together a bit.
I'm going to order Nautolex in the next day or two, and and frantically reading about adhesive options.... There seems to be such a wide range, and little consensus I can find. To complicate matters, the Canadian supplier of the Nautolex vinyl doesn't sell the Nautolex adhesive...so they have substituted an alternate.

 

[ShoestringMariner]

Jealous of your progress! Looking great
What is JT offering for glue? I bought the 3M Super 77 and did the small area under the splashwell and it worked nicely. I’m afraid to use full contact cement for fear there’s an oops on laying the aluminum and a wrinkle that super sets that I can’t get out…or I mess up the glue area etc. the 77 had a longer tack period and it seems to stick like cat poop to a blanket.

 

[SHSU]

I'm not sure if it shows well in the pics due to the glossy black paint, but two holes of the six mounting holes in each pedestal actually pass right through the stringer. Those black painted pieces in the pictures are the 5/8 ply doublers with those 4-pronged tee-nuts embedded in the underside. The plan is to position the deck panel in place over the doubler, and then use the pedestal machine screws to pull the double up from the bottom, and the deck board down from the top, pinching the flange of the stringer. That should give a very rigid pedestal, as it will be integrally tied to the stringer, rather than just the deck board itself.

I did similar with mine and it works great. Snugged tight and no movement. The deck and pedestal are rigid and strong, the seat.... Well it works for now and we will eventually upgrade.

SHSU

 

[Venca]

So... after searching for a while for my first real 'project' boat, I ended up with this:
View attachment 352313
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View attachment 352319
I purchased it from the estate of a couple in their 90's, who'd had the boat at their cottage for a very long time. In 2007 it was re-powered with a new fuel injected 4-stroke Yamaha 60, so I figured I was worst-case buying a modern engine with a boat-shaped engine stand. We took it out on the lake numerous times, and have decided the size, configuration, and performance are near perfect for our needs. Surprisingly it will haul 5 big guys and some gear up on plane, which is an extreme loading case for us. However, the wiring is a mess, windshield crazed, paint (multiple layers of what appears to be latex house paint??) and interior need work. Oh, and the transom is soft as well, reinforced to survive the season. I've tackled many other mechanical projects in the past, and I have a shop to work in. I do not, however, have much nautical experience, and am looking for advice on how to evaluate and proceed.

As for my post title... This boat is an 'Aluminum Goods Company' model 1687 boat, likely from the 70's. From my research, that company was purchased by Princecraft, and the previous owner applied his own decals to that effect. I can find almost no info about this model, although from sniffing around iboats, it looks to be very similar to the SS16 Starcraft. So...where do my questions related to this boat belong? If I'm allowed to hang here, I'll carry on with this thread, but if that's not appropriate, an alternate sub-forum, or other site would be most appreciated!

Hey! Super cool to see. I own exact same boat. Tried to find info about these and not much on the internet. Want to restore it as well just did transom and few things to get it on the water. Mine came as total project boat. So far I love this boat. It's very stable and fast too. Mine has Mercury 85hp. Will post some more pictures once I get to it as it's parked in the shop right now. I'm in BC.

 

[renns]

Greetings Venca! Thanks for dropping by. I'm glad to see they made more than one of these boats! Mine's got a Yamaha 60 4-stroker on it, and it performs very nicely with that setup. I'd love to see some higher resolution pictures of yours sometime. Was there any factory markings/logo/brand name on the sides of the hull? Mine had been re-painted (poorly) a few times, and I didn't see anything when stripping. I'd like to put the stencilled logo on the sides if one exists, or maybe just steal the Starcraft one and see if anyone ever notices!

 

[renns]

Storm Grey Nautolex arrived for the deck covering. Now - what adhesive to use... My deck is 5/8" exterior grade plywood, which has some surface imperfections. I wish I'd gone with better quality ply, perhaps Arauco or similar at least, given the time I've ended up putting into this project. In any case, it's been coated with 4+ coats of OldTimersFormula, all sides and edges. I put a coat of oil-based paint on the underside, but thought from an adhesion standpoint, perhaps it'd be better to let the vinyl adhesive grab on the rougher wood surface left after the drying of the OTF.

I ran a quick experiment last night with three different contact cement products. In each case both the fabric underside and the plywood sample were coated, and let to set per the instructions on the container:

1.) 3M 77 Spray Adhesive - readily available at Home Depot. This product soaks in a fair bit, and a second coat was applied to get what looked like an appropriate build-up.
2.) ducan Dek-Master Trim Adhesive - used to be available in Cdn Home Depot but most no longer stock it. This product is fairly thick, and applied with a brush. Only one coat was used.
3.) Lepage's Heavy Duty Contact Cement - available at most every hardware retailer in Canada at the moment. This stuff is thin, and smells much nastier than the other two. I'm not up on chemical identification by aroma, but this stuff definitely seems to use a different solvent than the first two. After waiting a couple minutes, this product had virtually disappeared from the surface of the ply and the fabric underside. A second coat was applied.

The vinyl samples were about 3" wide, and I left a tail hanging past the plywood so I could grab and peel it off after for testing. After bonding, each was immediately rolled a couple times with an piece of ABS pipe.

Results:
1.) Lepage's was the strongest bond. Using full effort I was just barely able to peel the vinyl free from the surface. In sections, the adhesive pulled away from the wood, and in others it pulled away from the vinyl. I'm thinking the thinning consistency allowed better penetration and bonding, but also required a second coat on application.
2.) ducan Dek-Master - second strongest. The bond was consistent throughout, and took considerable effort to peel back. Good consistent adhesion overall. I'm impressed with the performance here, and the consistency and single-coat are advantages.
3.) 3M 77 - third place - very poor bond that peeled back easily. I suspect this product might be better suited for bonding to well-sealed wood, or to aluminum directly. Even with the spray of a couple coats, it must have soaked in too much into the substrate to get a good bond.

I did not have any water-based adhesives at hand for testing. I'm a bit hesitant to even try them given the air bubbling issues some have reported in the past.

Based on this extremely limited test, I'm going to proceed with ducan Dek-Master trim adhesive for the deck section under the splashwell to start with, and see how that works. I like the thicker consistency, and it doesn't bother my nose as much as that Lepage's stuff does. The vinyl will be wrapped around the fore and aft edges, and the sides will be left to extend up into the spray rail. I may screw/rivet a small aluminum angle on the un-wrapped sides just to give the vinyl some mechanical incentive to stay put.

 

[ShoestringMariner]

Storm Grey Nautolex arrived for the deck covering. Now - what adhesive to use... My deck is 5/8" exterior grade plywood, which has some surface imperfections. I wish I'd gone with better quality ply, perhaps Arauco or similar at least, given the time I've ended up putting into this project. In any case, it's been coated with 4+ coats of OldTimersFormula, all sides and edges. I put a coat of oil-based paint on the underside, but thought from an adhesion standpoint, perhaps it'd be better to let the vinyl adhesive grab on the rougher wood surface left after the drying of the OTF.

I ran a quick experiment last night with three different contact cement products. In each case both the fabric underside and the plywood sample were coated, and let to set per the instructions on the container:

1.) 3M 77 Spray Adhesive - readily available at Home Depot. This product soaks in a fair bit, and a second coat was applied to get what looked like an appropriate build-up.
2.) ducan Dek-Master Trim Adhesive - used to be available in Cdn Home Depot but most no longer stock it. This product is fairly thick, and applied with a brush. Only one coat was used.
3.) Lepage's Heavy Duty Contact Cement - available at most every hardware retailer in Canada at the moment. This stuff is thin, and smells much nastier than the other two. I'm not up on chemical identification by aroma, but this stuff definitely seems to use a different solvent than the first two. After waiting a couple minutes, this product had virtually disappeared from the surface of the ply and the fabric underside. A second coat was applied.

The vinyl samples were about 3" wide, and I left a tail hanging past the plywood so I could grab and peel it off after for testing. After bonding, each was immediately rolled a couple times with an piece of ABS pipe.

Results:
1.) Lepage's was the strongest bond. Using full effort I was just barely able to peel the vinyl free from the surface. In sections, the adhesive pulled away from the wood, and in others it pulled away from the vinyl. I'm thinking the thinning consistency allowed better penetration and bonding, but also required a second coat on application.
2.) ducan Dek-Master - second strongest. The bond was consistent throughout, and took considerable effort to peel back. Good consistent adhesion overall. I'm impressed with the performance here, and the consistency and single-coat are advantages.
3.) 3M 77 - third place - very poor bond that peeled back easily. I suspect this product might be better suited for bonding to well-sealed wood, or to aluminum directly. Even with the spray of a couple coats, it must have soaked in too much into the substrate to get a good bond.

I did not have any water-based adhesives at hand for testing. I'm a bit hesitant to even try them given the air bubbling issues some have reported in the past.

Based on this extremely limited test, I'm going to proceed with ducan Dek-Master trim adhesive for the deck section under the splashwell to start with, and see how that works. I like the thicker consistency, and it doesn't bother my nose as much as that Lepage's stuff does. The vinyl will be wrapped around the fore and aft edges, and the sides will be left to extend up into the spray rail. I may screw/rivet a small aluminum angle on the un-wrapped sides just to give the vinyl some mechanical incentive to stay put.

Are you able to find dek-master elsewhere then?
I’m hesitant to use the 77 again. Although where I used it it’s worked well. But now in the middle of the floor area subject to sun, I don’t trust it.
I like the sounds of dek-master