Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

[BillaVista]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

2. Sorry, that's not factory sealant... new boats don't need sealant, especially in random areas. Your decking wasn't factory either, not too surprising given your boats age.
Remove as much of the old red stuff as you can before applying the Gluvit.

Thanks for the awesome help. I'm curious what makes you think the deck is not stock? Reason I ask is, there are no extra holes in the aluminum, not one. So if that deck is a replacement, it means the replacer hit every single original hole, without missing one. That seems really unlikely which is what makes me think it's original.

 

[BillaVista]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

I don't think the type of blue or pink foam insulation matters as long as its the closed cell stuff.

Just Drill new holes for the floor.

SS screws are acceptable for the floor, though more expensive than rivets but SS Screws are a ton easier to install without and air riveter.

No need for a poly vapor barrier.

Can't remember the rivet size on the hull.


Additionally, I think all of the hulls are designed to have water flow underneath the ribs. Don't drill holes. I cheated when I cleaned my limber holes out.

Basically I vacuumed the entire inside of the hull out put a bunch of water in it tilted the trailer forward, then tilted it back I went through each rib with the air gun on the compressor and blew each one of them out until water drained from underneath. Then I vacuumed again. Then I blew them out again until basically crap stopped coming out from underneath them.

Anyways, I am prolonging the inevitable here, I need to be in the shop working on my boat at the moment. Good luck I will check in on your resto again this evening.

Thanks for the great help - I'm enjoying following your progress too.

 

[BillaVista]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

Some progress and a few pics tonight.

Got the rest of the transom out at last. Removed some hardware from the gunwale's and rub strip and bent up the aft-most portions of the gunwales to get it out.

Also test-fit the new floor sections.

Have the two rough pieces cut for the transom. Am thinking the best way to proceed would be to glue the two pieces together to make one piece, then draw out the transom, and cut it out from the laminated piece.

Pics:

 

[BillaVista]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

An interesting thing I noticed, If you look closely at the next 3 pics, you will see that the factory top pieces of the transom do not line up exactly with the lower piece - they are actually a bit wider.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

There is a chance that the red sealant was a factory or dealer sealant. If the boat leaked while under warranty, it may have been serviced while the deck was still in great shape. Remove the original deck rivets, lift deck, add sealant & reinstall the deck. The deck would already have holes in it from the previous rivets, and if the rivets were all installed before being cinched, it make it easier to have them all hit the previous holes.

BarbK has a 'factory' refit of chine bracing w/ the exact same braces & placed exactly where they were put in on later years, probably in response to chine cracking:

Also a neighbor came and looked at my boat and said starcraft actually had a kit available for repairing this issue which he thinks has been done to my boat I don't know this for fact but sounds plausible anyone know any different
Thanks

The first pic is of the chine you can see where they put rivets down threw from the top and up from the bottom they are staggered
The second pic if you look at the floor you can see the pieces they put across the chine right next to the seat
What ya think ???

Maybe?

 

[dozerII]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

Making good progress Bill. That sealant I have found in the bow area of all the Starcrafts I have redone. If you can get a pair of pliers on a piece of it you should be able to pull it all out, this will allow your gluvit to get where it needs to go. You will find that a lot of the factory cuts on plywood including the transom can be pretty rough.

 

[BillaVista]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

Making good progress Bill.

Thanks. I just finished your restore on the one where you did black over polished...man that was beautiful work (and had me thinking all sorts of crazy things!) But the Admiral says paint must wait until after the season!

You will find that a lot of the factory cuts on plywood including the transom can be pretty rough.

And thank goodness for that! A rough cut I can copy...but precision often eludes me. When working in steel (as I normally do) I always say the welder is my paint brush...and the grinder is my eraser! Plus if something doesn;t fit you can beat it with a hammer until it does. This aluminum and wood thing is all new!

 

[BillaVista]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

Only one real progress pic today...weather isn't cooperating and to be honest I'm a bit tired.

Yesterday I did drag it out and do the first pressure wash inside. Removed a bunch more crud but it sure didn't come out clean and shiny like some I have seen. Tomorrow I attack the inside with the wire brush on the angle grinder.

Tonight's meager progress was cutting, gluing, and clamping the two pieces of 3/4" marine plywood together, from which the new transom will be cut:

Other than that, I got some supplies:

(not terribly interesting to you vets, I know, but in case there are ever any other rookies reading this...)

As a start on the foam, I got six 2' x 8' x 1" panels of C200 extruded polystyrene insulating from Home Depot. I will probably need twice that when all is said and done. Here it is stacked with each board cut into two (so it would fit in the car!)

Some plastic loom to cover wiring and fuel hose (not in the same loom , of course)

Some new bilge pump discharge hose

3M 5200 and 4200 sealant / adhesives. These will be used on the splashwell seams, and any other seams in / around the transom after it goes back in. May also be used on any replacement rivets required, and will certainly be used on any/all screws or bolts that pass through the transom. I''m thinking probably 5200 for all those tasks.

The obligatory Gluvit fro seams and rivet sealing from the inside before the floor goes back.

 

[BillaVista]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

A couple of drain tubes to go from splashwell through the transom

Some electrical goodies. Yes, probably overkill for this little boat, but I HATE crappy wiring and I really dislike thumb screws on batteries and disconnecting things by taking ring terminals off battery posts. Plus I always go overboard on two things - wiring and plumbing (from my offroad racing days), simply because those are the two things most likely to cause your rig (or boat) to burn and I've seen way too many do just that.

3M spray adhesive for the carpet/vinyl re-install. Acetone to clean the inside for the Gluvit, and Gorilla Glue to glue the ply together for the new transom. I was going to go with LP Premium construction adhesive but noticed it was "water resistant" wheras the Gorill is "100% waterproof".

Paintbrush to apply the Gluvit, sandpaper to prep for the Gluvit, plywwod blade for circular saw to cutout new transom, wire wheel to clean the inside of the hull and the splashwell flanges and the aluminum transom skin where holes need to be patched, and some orbital sanding discs to clean up the floor (especially the bow section which I am reusing) before the epoxy Resin goes on.

JB weld...for filling holes that no longer need to be holes.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

All you have to do is put all that stuff in the boat and you got it licked. :joyous:

 

[dozerII]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

Makin good progress, and thanks for the compliments on the Naked lady. Remember with Gorrilla glue you have to mist both surfaces with little water for the glue to cure properly.

 

[BillaVista]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

The two 3/4 plywood pieces seemed to have bonded well. I set the old transom in place and traced around it...just have to drum up the courage to dive in and make the cuts now...will be using a circular saw for the straight cuts and a jigsaw (hateful tool!) for the curves.

Then I decided to dive in and do the leak test

Feels very strange filling the boat with water!

As leaks appeared, I marked their point of origin with a grease pencil. Because it is so hot and humid, a lot of condensation formed very quickly on the hull, but the leaks cut nice clear rivulets as you can see in the picture:

I have one fairly major leak, but unfortunately it is in an area right above the trailer bunk so I couldn't pinpoint the source.

Which brings me to a concern. In this case (the area above the bunk that is leaking most) and in other cases (see next pic) the water was running down not from a single clearly identifiable rivet, but from the seam of the stiffening rib on the outside - sometimes near a rivet, sometimes between a rivet.

Which means I can't tell where the actual leak is. Now, I plan to replace and obviously defective rivets (and their are a few of those)...but what of the rivets that appear fine but are in the vicinity of leaking by the seam? I don't plan to re-buck any rivets as I have no experience and therefore no ability to know if I have done it enough or achieved anything. As I said, defective and visibly suspect rivets will get replaced...but I don't know what to do with the ones that look fine?

Here's a pic of multiple leaks coming from a seam:

I guess I can replace bad rivets, Gluvit all from inside and hope for the best - unless anyone has any other ideas? I'm just leery of removing what may be good rivets. In fact, I'm wetting myself just thinking of grinding and drilling on the actual hull.

I have two additional questions / concerns:

It seems that solid rivets are more proper, but might be harder to do? Either way, I plan to coat them with a panel bonding epoxy (an aluminum cold weld product designed for "gluing" aluminum semi-trailer bodies together instead of welding or riveting. Amazing product, have used it before to repair a camper roof. You can "glue" 2 sheets of aluminum together and you cannot beat them apart with a sledge - the aluminum itself fails before the bond).

So - do I suck it up and do the solid for through-hull rivets? I'd be using an air hammer with a chisel attachment cut off to make a home-made rivet set and a sledgehammer head inside for the bucking bar. Or should I just use the enclosed head blind rivets and a long-arm rivet gun as it may be easier and produce better results?

Any tricks to removing solid rivets without grinding or drilling the hull inadvertently? Grind or drill? From the inside or outside?

One last question. Should I absolutely peel off, wire brush away that old factory reddish-brown sealant at the bow and stern? I'm such a chicken and fear making things worse.!

 

[dozerII]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

My line of thinking is use solid rivets for anything through hull that is structural, unless you only have a couple to do. Fastenal can supply you with the proper bit for you air chisel. Center punch then drill them out is about the only way to remove them, I have found grinding them only take the flattened part off and they are still tight in the aluminum.
Remove as much of that loose factory sealant as you can, if it's like any of the others I've seen once you get under a pair of pliers will pull it out easy.

 

[BillaVista]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

OK Glen, that's what I'll do.

I found this excellent video on Youtube that has given me a bit more confidence.

Aircraft Flush Riveting, RV Builder Basics - YouTube

I'm going to drill some scrap aluminum and practice a few before attacking the hull.

Took today off and have just started on the inside hull with the wire-wheel. Popped in for an airconditioning break - it must be 45* in the shop already!

Rivets and Epoxy should be arriving this afternoon. Gonna be a busy weekend! Should be well on the way by the end though!

Ultimately I don't expect a 35 year old boat to be completely dry but I might as well do all I can while I'm at it.

 

[BillaVista]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

By the way, here's the epoxy I will be putting on the new rivets:



Large Panel Bonding Adhesive
Maxim™ Large Panel Bonding Adhesive is a one-to-one epoxy adhesive used for bonding various surfaces. It is used for replacing door skins, roofs, quarter panels, truck bedsides, utility vehicle sides and other non-structural panels. Maxim™ Large Panel Bonding Adhesive has excellent adhesion to SMC, cold-rolled steel, aluminum and e-coats. Maxim™ is backed by a lifetime warranty by Evercoat.

Work Time: 90-110 min
Clamp Time: 6 hours
Full Cure: 24 Hrs @ 21*C

Evercoat

DESCRIPTION: Maxim™ Large Panel Bonding Adhesive is a one-to-one epoxy adhesive used for bonding
various surfaces. It is used for replacing door skins, roofs, quarter panels, truck bedsides, utility
vehicle sides and other non-structural panels. Maxim™ Large Panel Bonding Adhesive has
excellent adhesion to SMC, cold rolled steel, aluminum and e-coats. Maxim™ Large Panel
Bonding Adhesive meets GM 6448G specifications and is backed with a full-life time warranty
by Evercoat.
FEATURES & Packaged in a Universal Cartridge: applied with a standard caulking gun
BENEFITS: 1:1 mix ratio
Contains glass beads for control of bond line thickness
Corrosion resistant properties: eliminates application of epoxy or self-etch primers
Excellent working times
Superior sag resistance
Easy to brush and spread
Cure time can be accelerated with heat
PREPARATION: Remove damaged panel. Grind surface area of the frame to remove old adhesive, rust and
other contaminants. Straighten damaged area. On quarters and roofs, grind the new panel to
bare steel. On doorskins, scuff the panel to remove the gloss.
Dry fit the panel to check for proper alignment.
Clean the mating surface areas of the frame and new panel.
APPLICATION: Equalize the cartridge to remove any air. Gun out a bead of adhesive the length of the static mix
tip to check for proper mix. Apply a bead of Maxim™ Large Panel Bonding Adhesive to the
frame and new panel. Brush the adhesive to a thin coat to cover all exposed bare metal. Apply
a 1/4” to 1/2” bead of the adhesive to the frame or new panel. Align the new panel to the frame.
Slide the panel to reposition. Clamp or screw the new panel to the frame. Do not remove the
clamps or screws for 6 hours. Remove all excess adhesive from the seams. Store used
cartridges with the tip down.
TECHNICAL
SPECIFICATIONS:
 Appearance Gray/Black
 VOC None
 Odor Amine / mercapton
 Working Time 90-110 minutes
 Clamp Time 6 hours
 Full Cure
 Paint Time
24 hours @ 70? F (21?C)
8 hours @ 70? F (21?C)
 Contents and Caution
 Additional Information
MSDS available upon request

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

Uhhmmm, Most all the other Tinners use the 3M 5200 to install their Reeeevits!!!

 

[BillaVista]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

Uhhmmm, Most all the other Tinners use the 3M 5200 to install their Reeeevits!!!

Gotcha. I've read that a few times too. I think that's probably at least in part because it's cheap, easy to work with, and everybody already has it for other jobs too (like caulking splashwell seams and bedding gunwale and transom fittings). And I'm sure it works fine for sealing rivets. But I just happen to have some of the Evercoat left from a camper aluminum roof repair and having worked with it I am very confident in it. It's expensive, and I prob. wouldn't buy it specially, but since I have it already and it's an excellent epoxy as strong as a weld I 'm going to try it.

Additionally, I am having some trouble drilling rivets out completely straight (the bit wanders in the soft aluminum of the rivet head) and the result is like this:

So in cases like this, since you could actually build the entire boat without using rivets and just using the Evercoat to bond the parts, I think it will be great for filling in any gaps around the rivets if there are any.

 

[BillaVista]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

Made some pretty good progress today.

First, I said "to heck with it!" and decided to remove the splashwell. I just couldn't get the parts cleaned up to my satisfaction with it in the way.

It also helped me practice drilling out solid rivets (and discovered that I'm not very good at it, or my drill bits suck). The centre punch helps start straight, but the bit wanders easily in the soft aluminum. Only plus is you can sometimes walk it back in the soft aluminum.)

Anyhew...the splashwell comes out with these 8 rivets:

and these 4 (2 on each side):

With it out, it's a lot easier to remove this awful tar-like sealant that was on the flanges:

But with it out, the wire wheel on the grinder makes short work of it

 

[BillaVista]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

So I was able to more easily clean up the inside of the aluminum transom skin, in prep for sealing all these extraneous holes:

Spent the rest of the day in the boat with the wire wheel cleaning up rivets and seams in prep. for Gluvit. Pretty hateful job in 45* heat. Won't be in a rush to do that again! Here's a pic of the job in progress.

With things all cleaned up, you can get a lot better look at the tails of the rivets.

Question: There are a few rivets like the following one, where the tail is nearly down to the skin. I'm thinking these should be replaced on spec, even if they didn't show up as leakers. What do you think?

 

[BillaVista]

Re: Tore the transom ...how to repair? (pics)

Some more supply shopping over the weekend:

Rivet Gun

Lotsa Rivets from the Jay Cee Rivet Company

Solid Rivets (3/16 x 1/2")

Closed-end blind rivets:

Epoxy-Plus for the deck and transom from Clark Craft:

Stuff from Lowes to get the epoxy on the wood: