president bush

POINTER94

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Re: president bush

Back to the question at hand:<br /><br />Question, what has GW done in his term? Answered<br /><br />Question, what have the dem's offered as an alternative? Run away, Run away.<br /><br />None of the hijackers were Iraqi - so as long as the terrorist's training camps are there training every whacko regardless of nationality that is ok. The command and control and the braintrust is located and fostered there but because the actual birth certificates don't originate there then everything is hunky dory. The logic escapes me.<br /><br />Liberal answers to actual events:<br /><br />Bombing of the towers: It wasn't Iraq call the UN<br />Bombing of the Cole: Call the UN<br />Bombing in Beruit: Call the UN<br />Bombing of the WTC: Can't prove anything call the UN. Oh yea and cut the budget to all the intellegence services. Build departmental silo's to prevent information sharing. ABLE DANGER.<br /><br />Invasion of Kuait: Not our problem.<br />Failure to live up to UN sanctions: Change the rules.<br />First bombing of the WTC. Call the UN<br />Gassing the Kurds. Not our problem.<br />Attempting to kill/assassinate PRESIDENT Bush Sr.: NOTHING, ZIP, ZERO, NADA. He is a republican, no loss right?<br /><br />In all fairness I have addressed your inquiries despite your selective reading abilities, as requested. What is your plan? Where are your action items? How many on our soil need to die before you fight back? Were pushing 4000 dead. What have you done historically to make this nation safer? I can point to what the liberals have done to compromise our safety. When is the US right in anything according to the alien leaders of the liberal movement? What is the exact number of deaths that would trigger the liberals to realize the threats pointed at us for ??????????<br /><br />Term limits shouldn't just be for the president.<br /><br />Your questions were answered with specificity, your turn!
 

txswinner

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Re: president bush

jtexas, The TV and movies (in my simple opinion) is one of the greatest contributors to the failing morals of our people. Then we get into the whole censorship issues. I censured my families TV when the kids were growing up. Only parent I knew that blocked out MTV. Course I had curfews and stuff also.<br /><br />Did not win any popularity contest but kids seem ok today.
 

mikeandronda

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Re: president bush

TXwinner I did not say if you support those things your not a Christian........show me where I said that. And no I dont think divorse should be concidered "Illegal" and Jtexas I know a few too.......Just what would Christ think about abortion in any circumstance???????? Many Christians are misguaded including me on some issues and Im sure every moment of the day God looks down on his people and thinks "what are they thinking????" But I will still attempt to be as Christlike as I can.<br /><br />Now back to the original reason for the post......How about what our last Democrat (Clinton) did for our country......OH Pointer just showed that......Hmmmmmmm lets hear some of your ideas......Wheres PW, Msbscott or woodrat today, at least they provide sparring partners worth the time to type........
 

POINTER94

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Re: president bush

txs,<br /><br />I read your post and I just about fell on the floor. Millions of children a month killed in abortion clinics and your response is we shouldn't inconvenience people. Nowhere in the constitution did it say life was fair or equal. If the immoral rich go to France to kill a life, we should then make murder for hire available here, and at reasonable prices? This just boggles the mind.<br /><br />Second, schools were instituted so that the masses could vote with an understanding of the issues. And reading and math were considered essential for a complete understanding of the issues. A strong and educated population will make informed and educated decisions regarding the direction of the body politic. Schools were not set up for social engineering, condom and birth control outlets, or to propogate views inconsistant with the beliefs of the individual families. They are not feeding centers for the poor parents, they are not political training grounds based on the most commonly held current belief system of the instructors. What we now have are indoctrination centers not schools. And they are failing at that task miserably. Look at the illiteracy rates and the dropout rates.<br /><br />There are multiple religions that accept divorce. Luthern's for example and the myriad synods that make up the faith. Jews can divorce. Religion is a beautiful thing when you understand their teachings. <br /><br />I am maybe confused, but name one christian religion that embraces abortion/murder. Jewish doctine allows for abortion only when the mothers life is in danger. As far as I know no mainstream christian religions thinks abortion is a good or acceptable practice.
 

txswinner

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Re: president bush

You can not legislate morality i.e. alcohol, drugs, abortion, homosexuality, perverted sex among consenting adults (whatever that might be). Be tried and does not work.<br /><br />Morals are taught at home and in our churches. I never said at school, that is a whole other thread.
 

POINTER94

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Re: president bush

txswinner and all other members regardless of political stripe,<br /><br />Presentation of facts doesn't make me upset or angry. I understand that my views are that of just one man. My ability to affect change is more dependant on how I live my life and conduct myself to others.<br /><br />I do however expect those who may view things differently and ask me to accept their reasoning to provide some substantiation for their mindset, if they want me to accept their views. I don't believe that I will be changing the world by posting my beliefs in the dockside chat, and I don't really believe that I can expect to even change someones mind on a topic. But as in my last post, you can now go forward understanding that there are christian religions that accept divorce. How you use this information in your decision making process is up to you. I shared what I know.<br /><br />I can say that by reading many of the articulate and thoughtful liberals members posts I have gained insight into areas that I didn't know anything about. They in-turn have not changed my position as a conservative but their educated and openly shared knowledge has benefited me in my understanding of issues frequently unrelated to the topic at hand. I use their shared insights on a go-forward basis to help me formulate positions or even decisions on issues yet unrevealed.<br /><br />I have no gripe or issue with you personally or in any other way. I read your posts stem to stern whenever I drop in and will continue to gain knowledge from everyone who shares on this board. My goal is not to insult or belittle anyone here, (with 1-2 exceptions but they are self-evident) and if you feel insulted by any of my postings, I apologize.
 

jtexas

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Re: president bush

Originally posted by POINTER94:<br /> ...schools were instituted so that the masses could vote with an understanding of the issues...
Is this an original opinion or can you point us to a source?<br /><br />Schools were instituted way, way before the concept of "voting" was ever devised. Education has been available for the children of the powerful & wealthy for as long as there have been children of the powerful & wealthy. The electoral system in this country didn't require an understanding of the issues; only the "electors" and elected representatives needed to understand the issues (see other post on the <br />"Constitution - have you read it?").
 

POINTER94

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Re: president bush

One more on this point.<br /><br />Yes we legislate morality everyday. Murder is a moral judgement. That is way there is 1st degree, second degree, manslaughter. We legislate it. The fact that we have the death penalty shows killing isn't considered wrong, murder then be definition has a moral component.<br /><br />In ancient sparta, stealing was acceptable, but getting caught wasn't. All young men had to join the spartan army and stealing was actually endorced by the army, but getting caught was actually punishable. Theft is a moral decision. We legislate it.<br /><br />Sexual contact with children is considered immoral, we legislate against it.<br /><br />Poligamy is considered immoral, we legislate against it.<br /><br />Usuary (extremely high interest rates) is considered immoral and we legislate against it. It used to be a sin to charge interest on money in the catholic religion.<br /><br />Gluttony is a moral debate, and we have seen several lawsuits against fast food joints, this would result in moral legislation.<br /><br />Yes, we can legislate morality and we do. I have to chuckle when it is said we can't.
 

POINTER94

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Re: president bush

And as you noted the rich and powerful were allowed to vote. Lets look at our history, you at one time had to prove you could read to vote. You had to own land to vote. Who could read and own land, yep the rich. Therefor reading was considered essential to the successful maintaince of a democratic society. The concept was originally put forth by Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Rush, but was considered a bit to progressive at the time. It took about two generations for public schools to come into being and the reasons for it were to quote Jefferson "to homogenize and discipline the population, to produce intelligent and moderate citizens (capable of governance), and to disseminate a common culture."<br /><br />culture."http://are.as.wvu.edu/scopedu.htm This is very informative.<br /><br />Slaves were not allowed to know how to read. Why, it opens the door to understanding and knowledge and their sole purpose in the minds of the slaveholders was to perform specific physical functions. In fact in some states teaching slaves to read was illegal.<br /><br />It falls under the heading of "promote the general wellfare".
 

txswinner

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Re: president bush

I rather you chuckle than freak out. The morality issues you point to were not legislated to promote a moral society but to protect individuals. I do not know or care about the Spartans. <br /><br />Usuary is again to protect the citizens. Courts do not legislate. Laws are legislated by the congress the fast food crap does not fly but nice try.
 

POINTER94

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Re: president bush

Courts do not legislate. You have to be kidding. You do live in the United States I assume<br /><br />Open up a newspaper. Look up ninth curcuit. See recent rulings on eminent domain.<br /><br />What are you saying?<br /><br />Protecting the citizens is by definition moral. Laws are created in many ways. Not just by congress, they are *******ized daily to meet the needs of those who look to forward agendas.<br /><br />As an unborn child is an individual, you then can legislate morality by your definition. Kill a pregnant woman eight months along and guess what, it is a double murder. I am not an individual because someone wants me, I am an individual because I exist. In fact morality in all cases is in place to protect the individual. Your belief in a given moral judgement is what is in question. That make who the arbitor of right and wrong, moral or immoral?<br /><br />Almost all laws are based on someones morality judgement.
 

Vlad D Impeller

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Re: president bush

My view on how religious dogma has benefitted mankind to date, here is a few that a lot of us will likely recognise. There was the Crusades, the Spanish inquisition, The Salem witchhunt, and the Taliban.<br />Nevermind the bunch of total nutcases in between such as Jim Jones and David Koresh, the hippocracy of Jim Baker and Jimmy Swaggert, folks are bombarded daily with loony rhetorical innuendos and outright nonsense by kooks like Falwell, Robertson, and a few others too numerous to mention.<br />Religious dogma has no bounds, it seems that 99% of mankind are brain washed into being subservient to the 1% whose promises will lead their wretched souls into some kind of a utopian universe.<br />Leave it to the world of religion and mankind would still be living on a flat earth with the entire universe revolving around us.
 

POINTER94

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Re: president bush

Vlad you are no doubt correct. There are some serious wack jobs proostituting religion in the name of the almighty buck.<br /><br />Please don't forget the likes of a mother teresa, Pope John Paul II, Catholic childrens intiative, operation rice bowl, The salvation army, Catholic social services, Notre Dame University, etc. We are all judged on who we associate with and the history thereof, but remember that not all the actions are condoned or correct, but all the good that organized religions do is rarely if ever reported, known or documented. <br /><br />History does no favors for many religions. And the televangilist attraction boggles my mind.
 

CalicoKid

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Re: president bush

...Which brings us nicely back around to the subject of Prez. Bush whom I would have to slip into Vlad's list somewhere.
 

Vlad D Impeller

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Re: president bush

Originally posted by POINTER94:<br /> Vlad you are no doubt correct. There are some serious wack jobs proostituting religion in the name of the almighty buck.<br /><br />Please don't forget the likes of a mother teresa, Pope John Paul II, Catholic childrens intiative, operation rice bowl, The salvation army, Catholic social services, Notre Dame University, etc. We are all judged on who we associate with and the history thereof, but remember that not all the actions are condoned or correct, but all the good that organized religions do is rarely if ever reported, known or documented. <br /><br />History does no favors for many religions. And the televangilist attraction boggles my mind.
No arguement, point taken ;)
 

txswinner

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Re: president bush

Not just wackos in religion for power and money, point don't for get all the little altar boys getting it in the boody.
 

jtexas

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Re: president bush

TXS, note that while courts don't "legislate," court decisions have full force and effect of law until legislation to the contrary is legislated, which is what is meant by the terms "case law" and "common law." A good example is Roe v. Wade.<br /><br />pointer, note that you can only legislate behavior, not morality. <br /><br />Morality is not absolute, it is relative, it is subjective, it is defined by society. There are plenty of intelligent, educated, moral, even religious, people on both sides of the abortion issue; and there are plenty who think some circumstances warrant the respect of a decision made by those involved without intrusion of society.
 

Drybo

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Re: president bush

_Bush-priority move into tx national guard<br />_cheny-other prioritys/5 defferments?<br />_rumsfeld-other prioritys<br />_wolfowitz-other priorities<br />_powell-served but wants no more of this administration<br />_clinton- run to england as fast as possible<br />_kerry- took personal video cams to nam?<br />planning on congress at that time?<br /><br />The general that says we need more troops dismissed<br />15 of 20 that attacked wtc from saudi arabia?<br /><br />Remember the 1st gulf war? the decision to stop on the highway of death was made in part because going into/deposing saddam would create even more caos(Bush 1)<br /><br />Something stinks!
 

txswinner

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Re: president bush

Byrddog, You make way too much sense. You sound like one of those left wing liberals that want all the Christians Dead. Your facts will not be addressed but you will be called names and your remarks will be responsed to with:<br /><br />What about Clinton and Monica<br />You must like gays<br />You want to kill babies<br />You think gov should give you everything<br />Kerry was only in VN a short time but Bush records show he was in military years<br />WMD everyone knows he had them<br />Peace for the world<br />you must be a Michael Moore raghead and on and on and on, They you will be called a name caller.<br /><br />Good luck.
 
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