I'm not a religious man, but......

spratt

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

As I understand it, a "jihad," or "holy war" cannot be waged (except in defense of Islam)on "peoples of the book," which include followers of the descendants of Abraham: Muslims, Jews and, by extension, Christians. Arabs descended from Ishmael, Abraham's first son by Sarah's maid Hagar, and Jews from Isaac, firstborn son to Sarah and Abraham (see Genesis chapter 22 or thereabouts). They've been at it tooth & nail ever since, but to call it a "holy war" is a distortion of Islam. Don't take my word for it, though, I'm far from an expert. Since the U.S. isn't ruled by a "religious" government I guess they figure we're all just godless infidels?
<br /><br />JT, in these things, you are very correct. Ishmael was promised by God to be the Father of many, as was Isaac. Both were Abrahams sons, but one was via teh bondwoman, Hagaar, and Isaac through the rightful mother of nations, Sarah.
 

spratt

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Originally posted by JB:<br /> I am tired of being called names because of my beliefs. I have been intimidated into silence by the righteous majority. How sad.<br />
JB, I just re-read this post and have a couple thoughts...where did you post your beliefs? In fact, I went back to find another post you made, but found you had edited some of them, but I distinctly remember reading where you stated that you would not post your beliefs...and I disagree that you have been silenced at all.<br /><br />Intimidated, you?? Some of your posts are definitely "take a stand" type writings, and you haven't once backed down from stating what you think is offensive to someone else, but noone else has broached that subject at all. I can only assume from that, that you are the one offended, but, I have been known to be wrong about some things before.<br /><br />If you choose to stop posting, that is within your rights to do so, but I noticed that you let everyone know that we had best watch what we say, and if YOU judge that someone has been offended, then you are going to lock it down. For once, I am going to state that I disagree with that. I have seen a lot of fairness from your side, but if this subject is as popular as it appears to be, though you may not like it, it should only be shut down if the members request it. And, if any members request it, there should be evidence of that, other than you just saying that someone or more than one someones were offended. So far, no evidence of that has been shown through any posts, except maybe yours. <br /><br />If you all agree, then great, but if I am wrong, let me know and I will retract all I have said, make public apology to JB, and will willingly refrain from any further Christian type posts...
 

12Footer

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Originally posted by JB:<br /> Agree, DJ.<br /><br />I am tired of being called names because of my beliefs. I have been intimidated into silence by the righteous majority. How sad.<br /><br />I hereby resign from further discussions of this ilk.<br /><br />Except, that is, to enforce iboats rules having to do with personal insults and attacks.
I've been silent in this thread until now. But I can't stay out of it now. JB, you are one of ther most righteous, kind, fair-minded men I havbe ever had the pleasure of getting to know, and I count you as one of my BEST firends. Not an aquaintence on the ol WWW, but a good friend. You've allways cared about other people, and are so level-headed,it scares me sometimes. I think a post of mine in another thread got under your skin, and I never meant for that to happen, nor was it my intent to inpune anyone else at that time.<br />But this thread here was a train-wreck from the first post. We all hold our spiritual beliefs so dearly (not saying they cant suddenly and drasticlly change), but they make-up our hopes for eternity.<br />Eternity is a long time :) (shock). And we live our lives trying to figure out what it's all about. It's magnificant, joyous, horrifying,evil, spell-binding,and mysterious.<br />And to a thinking-man, it SIMPLY CANNOT BE FOR NAUGHT! To simply die,after gaining so much wisdom, after impacting so many, forward to worm food? Many think so. But then, on the water, on a clear,calm,star-filled night, one look up, and you know in your heart of hearts, that there is a God, and he has a purpose for you,and all that is around you. Some people come to grips with the overwhelming majesty of the spiritual rhealm by giving the creator a name. <br />Some folks never do come to grips with it, and live out thier lives as best they can, for "the duration". That is understandable to everyone who has ever pondered the questions we all ask; "Why would he allow for the slaughter of all those people by the NAZIs? "Why do we kill each other?" "Why is there so much suffering here?"<br />All of that rot. And in search for answers, many of us have turned to those who have studied the works of his followers (the Bible), and have gotten the answer to many of those questions. IOW, we end-up in church, listening to a sermon from such a person...But for many other questions, even the most learned pastor will honestly answer, there is no rational answer, only theories. And that is where FAITH comes in....<br />"Don't know how or when, but God will come for me someday,and provide ALL the answers"!<br /><br />JB, keep the faith, bro. God loves ya. You'll be ok as long as you keep talking to him. Strike-up a one-way conversation with him whenever you can. And soon, you find it's a TWO-way conversation. Not with words, but with answers (light bulbs of wisdom going-off and such)...With calmness.<br /><br />Religous beliefs are as varied as there are people. It's when we try to defend those beliefs, that we get flustered.<br />I'll shut up now. I just wanted you to know,you are greatly respected and admired for who you are, by many here with the guts to admit it.
 

JB

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

12-er.<br /><br />Thank you for your kind and generous remarks.<br /><br />I do not see myself as anti-religion or anti-Christian; a bitter old man or a devil. <br /><br />Most of my beliefs are compatible with the true spirit of Christ's teachings, as well those of Buddha, Mohammad and many other prophets.<br /><br />I do not object to what anyone believes, I merely object to how they behave toward others.<br /><br />Some don't seem to be able to percieve the critical difference between objecting to what they say or do and objecting to who they are or what they believe.<br /><br />Because of that I will just keep my opinions to myself on the subject of religion.<br /><br />Thanks again. :)
 

JasonB

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

" NYMinute made a good point about church being big business. In times past it was considered a very evil thing for church to be business. I have to agree with that."<br /><br />This is why it bothers me greatly that ane on the largest churches in my area, of the denomination I attend, has a McDonalds in the church building.....
 

mikeandronda

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

JB let me start out by saying that the words that I carlessly threw out in your direction were a knee jerk reaction and I had wished I could take some of them back all night last night. I will not edit my post to change things I have posted( cept spelling and grammar) What I really wanted to say is I am often times blown away by your level headeness and have had to really think about things I have said or agreed with more than one time and in truth many of my beliefs may have been effected in a positive way by reading your posts. But It seems to me as of lately that the Religous posts( in particular Christian ones) have made you a bit testy. I value you input as much as anybody on here and I know being a Mod and a member you have to walk a fine line. Please except my humble appologee( prolly have to edit that for sp ).
 

spratt

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

I think most of us here actually believe that the Bible is the Inspired Holy Word of God written by Holy Men of God as they were moved upon by His Spirit. If one does not believe that, nothing that can be said or done, can, or will, change the way a person thinks or lives or acts or reacts.<br /><br />However, after someone actually reads the Word of God, tests it by following what it says, and proves it out to be true, then nothing anyone can say or do will change their beliefs, either. The Bible told me to Repent of my sins, be baptized in His name, and then promised I would receive the infilling of the Spirit of God in my heart, just as it happened on the day of Pentecost in the book of Acts when the church was born, and throughout the remainder of the Apostles lifetime, and on throughout history. I did that, and He did His part. So, I know that after having a real experience that was described in the Bible, and found that was true, I have found nothing else in the Word of God to be UNtrue...<br /><br />The majority of people who call themselves RELIGIOUS, are doing what feels good to them, making God whatever they want Him to be for them. In the Old Testament, there was a period of time before the Prophets came on the scene when folks did just that also, and it is called the period of Conscience. Sort of like "If it feels good, do it".<br /><br />I believe that what is dubbed the New Age movement is all about that same thing, do what feels good, and call it "love"...how can God possibly judge and destroy what HE created??? He is LOVE...and yes, He is. But what we have to remember, is that God hates Sin and will not tolerate (there is that word again) it, and since we were made with the choice of whether to live by His Word, or to live by our feelings, God will ultimately be the final wod on our eternal place of habitation.
 

Elmer Fudge

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

It seems most apparent to me that all religions do have much more in common when teaching human morality,and their differences are mainly their interpreted belief of Jesus as to whether he is or was a diety or a prophet.Is my understanding correct?
 

mikeandronda

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

That was what i was trying to say Elmer.....Im sorry if it came out different.
 

spratt

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Elmer, I believe you are fairly accurate. And yes, I do think that a major difference is the perception of who/what Jesus actually was or is. In fact, I have seen people of the same denomination / persuasion have some totally opposing views within their own ranks.<br /><br /><br />But, I have it settled in my mind and heart, and what I believe is what I believe. I will defend it till the end, and if that is what some think is forcing it on them, I guess I am guilty, but I have NEVER (well, except maybe when I first came to God and was an overly excited guy, like a child with a new toy) tried to force ANYONE to believe what I believe. I will definitely answer any questions about my faith, compare scripture with them, and discuss why I believe what I do. BUt, if all someone wants to do is to argue, fuss, or fight over the scriptures, I will pull out of the debate. What I have seen here is an absolutely healthy discussion, and hopefully I haven't made ony offences towards anyone else, nor offended their faith. It was not my intention if I did, and I would like to make apology for that, but I will never apologize for the stand I take for my Lord.<br /><br />You see, I believe that God gives the interpretation of the Scripture, by utilizing His Word alone. Scripture interprets scripture, and if one cannot back up their faith by the Word of God they claim to fully believe and stand on, then something is wrong somewhere. And, in MY opinion, and what I believe to be true within the covers of the Bible, one cannot make it with God if they do not follow His Word implicitly and that Word alone. God said 'I am God alone, and I know no other God'. And ' Besides me there is not other God'...<br /><br />I pray you all have a blessed and wonderful day in all your endeavors!!!
 

JB

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

M&R:<br /><br />Peace, brother. :)
 

bayman

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Why do people actually believe 100% false information written by someone who knows nothing about one religion or another? If you want any facts you probably have to go to religion A, B, or C. Reading what A says about B, or C about A.... You won't get the facts by going to a 3rd party, that seems very clear.
 

mikeandronda

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

what exzactly do you mean Bayman?.......are you saying somebody who is 100% sure of his/her belief is wrong without knowing the rest of the worlds belief system....or are you saying that one should be an expert on all religions before they speak about them or am I completely not gatting what your saying? The later could very well be possably true :)
 

bayman

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

I'm saying that if I went to each religion posted about on here and asked them what each believed, they would say some of what is actually said on this board. On the other hand some of the information on this board has been started by people who just want to hurt every other religion that is not their own. Then it has unwittingly been believed and passed on by those who believed that person. I'm not an expert on every religion nor can I expect anyone else to be. I'm just surprised that some information here is 100% wrong for more than one religion spoken of on this board.<br /><br />I guess we can't come to the truth by listening to what one person says about another religion.<br /><br />Maybe myself and others too, could work on getting actual quotes from the various religions we are talking about...<br /><br />I'm just wary of saying something about someone's religion which isn't true at all. Such a discussion seems difficult for even a religious scholar. Having such a discussion and doing it in an equitable method is proving somewhat difficult.
 

mrbscott19

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

There is no fact in religion. Only beliefs.
 

bayman

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Point taken mrbscott19, the idea then is to at least get the facts straight about which religion actually has which beliefs. Quotting documents published by the religion being discussed seems to be the best way of not spreading false information about others' beliefs.
 

mikeandronda

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Mrbscott I disagre with you but to be more to the point there is fact mixed in in all religion but its not belief...... its faith that makes some one a particpent in religion.
 

spratt

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

You know, bayman, I am almost 100% with you on this. The facts are that men put together all the ORGANIZATIONS that sponsor their churches. All the different churches within an organization do not even believe everything that another church of the same org believes. I find that true even in the church I attend. I never have professed to know all of what another organization or church believes et al, but the Bible tells us that we are supposed to watch the fruit that a tree produces and if ti doesn't match what the tree is supposed to grow, then there is a monkey in the woodpile somewhere! How is this supposed to be done? That is very simple...all one has to do is to READ God's Word...even in there He says that if a man desires understanding, to pray, and He will provide it. So, how I do it, is to read and pray that God will help me to understand what I am reading. He does that by showing me more scriptures that align with the other, and there are MANY scriptures that back up all others, or at least I am very confident, since it has worked for me very well over the years. It helps to sit down with someone else and hash out the scriptures and try to get a clearer understanding also. Prayer is the vehicle, though, to understanding!! <br /><br />The bottom line for me, is that the Bible says to come out from the world and be seperate. So, if when I listen to someone tell me about the Bible or their involvement with God, and there is no evident cvhange in their way of living compared to before they came to God, it is pretty difficult to think they understand much about God. I can excuse someone who is brand new to God's Grace, but I know of "Pastors", "Priests" or whatever title is given to them, who blatantly exercise their examples of "Holy living" by drinking alcohol, smoking, swearing, flirting with women, and sundry other things that the Bible tells us are definitely against the teachings of the Bible for Holy living. God demands that we are holy, because He is holy.<br /><br />If you think that the above sounds as if I am judging others in their faith, that is 100% incorrect. I know that there are things that may seem muddy to anybody that studies scripture, but SOME things are so bold and evident that it SHOULD knock peoples eyes wide open when they see it! <br /><br />I do believe that some twist the scriptures to fit what their agenda is, or so that what they do seems to not be sin, or to make it popular to the masses...too many churches think that the numbers on their board out front make them a better church but that is far from truth. Some of the largest and most widely attended churches in any city are just cold stone edifices of beauty but have no real Spirit in them, and when you go, you leave in the same condition as when you arrived. Church is all about Christ, and even more, about souls rededicating themselves to Him. Too many churches do not even offer teh folks a time to bend a knee at an alter and find Him...too often it is just a repeated prayer and then being told, Now you are saved...Hogwash, I say...how can I say that with conviction??? I have been there for too long and too many times!!! And you know what? After the little prayer, I never felt anything different inside, and I always knew that if God were to live in me, then He would make some kind of change in me, because the Bible says that He will make a NEW CREATURE out of us, and that He will save us, not IN our sin, but FROM our sin.<br /><br />But hey, someone is goign to say I am trying to force things down their throat, but whomever feels that way is not out to find God anyway, so I could never reach them anyway. And all I would ever want in life is to be able to lead some sinner who recognizes their need for God to the place where they can feel His love for them, and find His forgiveness for them, so that one day they can look Him in the face and tell Him THANK YOU!!!
 

spratt

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

A banker is trained to recognize fake money first learning what the THE REAL THING looks like. The result of that is that when something that is not real comes along, they are able to recognize it immediately, like some small thing is just not right, or something is out of place...and it is the same way with God. If it does not match up to what He inspired in the Bible, then it CANNOT be real 100%...all churches have SOME truth...it behooves every one of us to make SURE that what they are being fed is real by simply comparing it to the Bible, NOT taking some man's word for it!!! No way am I going to listen to a man without checking everything he tells me against the rule book. This is my SOUL I am concerned about, and it WILL spend eternity SOMEWHERE...or, so, I believe.
 

mikeandronda

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Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

I was 28 when I became a Christian, got saved, was born again met Jesus.....however you want to say it. I heard it all before then but was closed hearted/minded to anything spiritual. My guess is everbody here has been bombarded by others "beliefs" their whole lives as well. When I opened my heart God was there waiting.....my only request of people is to truly open there hearts and minds and to seek the truth. I 100% trust that if a person opens his heart and asks with real want that god will answer.
 
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