I'm not a religious man, but......

[jtexas]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Golden rule is the words of Jesus as reported by Matthew and Luke below. There may be a version somewhere that has the wording you quoted. It was spoken in Hebrew and written in Greek before being translated into English, so don't get caught up in syntax. Jesus may not have been the first spiritual leader to utter those words, anyway. Confucius was reported to have said "Do not do to others what you would not have them do to you." I know, not exactly the same, Jesus just improved on it.<br /><br /><br />Matthew 7:12<br />King James Version:<br />"...whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them."<br /><br />Revised Standard Version:<br />"So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them"<br /><br />Luke 6:31<br />KJV:<br />"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."<br /><br />RSV:<br />"And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them."

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Originally posted by Elmer Fudge:<br /> I guess that what i'm trying to understand is, if all of these religions teaches one to love thy neighbour, treat others as you would like to be treated and to be kind to the differences in the make up of human soceitys, is'nt it unreligion-like for a religion to be intollerant of another?

YES!<br /><br />All religions say somewhere to tolerate other religions (even Islam).<br /><br />But most Christian religions also say followers should try to convert others to their religion, simply because they believe theirs is the "right" one.<br /><br />They are trying to help non-believers.<br /><br />BTW, the Muslim extremists are calling this a holy war because they (falsely) believe we (the USA) have waged war on them first. Because we support those that oppress them. ALL religions do say it is OK to wage war in this instance.<br /><br />I say, they started the war first by attacking Israel, then lost. They are hippocrits as they were trying to oppress Israel.<br /><br />Ken

 

[spratt]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Originally posted by jtexas:<br /> Golden rule is the words of Jesus as reported by Matthew and Luke below. There may be a version somewhere that has the wording you quoted. It was spoken in Hebrew and written in Greek before being translated into English, so don't get caught up in syntax. Jesus may not have been the first spiritual leader to utter those words, anyway. Confucius was reported to have said "Do not do to others what you would not have them do to you." I know, not exactly the same, Jesus just improved on it.<br /><br />Now, see, jTexas...did I not tell you that I am human and subject to error??? If anyone takes what I say as GOSPEL and does notlook it up for themselves to disprove it, that is their error.<br /><br />I stand duly corrected.<br /><br /><br />Matthew 7:12<br />King James Version:<br />"...whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them."<br /><br />Revised Standard Version:<br />"So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them"<br /><br />Luke 6:31<br />KJV:<br />"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."<br /><br />RSV:<br />"And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them."

 

[spratt]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Originally posted by jtexas:<br /> Golden rule is the words of Jesus as reported by Matthew and Luke below. There may be a version somewhere that has the wording you quoted. It was spoken in Hebrew and written in Greek before being translated into English, so don't get caught up in syntax. Jesus may not have been the first spiritual leader to utter those words, anyway. Confucius was reported to have said "Do not do to others what you would not have them do to you." I know, not exactly the same, Jesus just improved on it.<br /><br /><br />Matthew 7:12<br />King James Version:<br />"...whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them."<br /><br />Revised Standard Version:<br />"So whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them"<br /><br />Luke 6:31<br />KJV:<br />"And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise."<br /><br />RSV:<br />"And as you wish that men would do to you, do so to them."

Now, see, jTexas...did I not tell you that I am human and subject to error??? If anyone takes what I say as GOSPEL and does notlook it up for themselves to disprove it, that is their error.<br /><br />I stand duly corrected.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Originally posted by Elmer Fudge:<br /> Posted by JB: Quote "Many non-Christian religions agree that Jesus lived and live by teachings similar to His."<br /><br />What religions are those?

Buddists have nothing to do with Jesus, but if you look at their teachings, they are very similar to what jesus taught us to do (love thy neighbor as thyself)<br /><br />Buddism is probably the most peacful religion ever. I cant recall a time they ever waged a holy war.<br /><br />Ken

 

[bayman]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Spratt, you do have a good point about God destroying cities in the Old Testament times. In this case God clearly didn't want these evil cities around. God has let us know that he is the judge and reserves judgement for himself. As we aren't Gods though I believe he commands us to be tolerant of others though - even to love our neighbors. Would that seem correct?

 

[spratt]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Originally posted by kenimpzoom:<br /> All religions say somewhere to tolerate other religions (even Islam).<br />Ken

Ken, forgive me for coming back at you like this, but I am afraid that evidence will have to be put out on the table before I will believe that statement. Now, it might be that it is written into the by-laws of some organizations, which I suppose are being referred to as "Religions"...<br /><br />I don't recall ever reading in the Bible where Jesus ever said to be tolerant of other "religions" or other "Doctrines"...in fact, He constantly put the religious leaders of that day in their place, calling them snakes, vipers, etc...

 

[spratt]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Originally posted by bayman:<br /> Spratt, you do have a good point about God destroying cities in the Old Testament times. In this case God clearly didn't want these evil cities around. God has let us know that he is the judge and reserves judgement for himself. As we aren't Gods though I believe he commands us to be tolerant of others though - even to love our neighbors. Would that seem correct?

Bayman, I am not going to state that I am more knowledgeable than any other person who reads and prays for understanding of the Bible. I wanted to preface my answer with that, as I I have already stated that I can be wrong.<br /><br />However, to answer the question, yes, I believe and know that Jesus taught to love our neighbor. He once asked the disciples "What is teh greatest commandment?" The answer, as we all know, was to love the Lord our God with all our heart, etc...and tehn He said, that the second was like unto the first, that we should love our neighbor as ourself. Well, who among us is going to willingly hurt ourselves as long as we are sane? Who is going to cheat ourselves? Who would deny ourselves food or raiment? Who is going to deny our own body the medical care it needs? Yes, and if the neighbor comes to us in need, He instructed us to SHOW THEM THE LOVE OF GOD THROUGH US towards them by helping as much as we are possibly able. I don't believe that taking food from our own family to ensure the neighbor is taken care of is the way to do it. But we shold help them to get that food, if that is the thing they need. Jesus loved every part of His Creation, and every man and woman in it. Yet, he still had to admonish, revile, reject, and judge the ones which refused to seperate themselves from sin. We have this famous saying "Love the sinner, not the sin"...and that is correct! However, I do not believe we have to rub shoulders with them to love them! Have you ever seen just one bad apple in a whole bushel? That one bad one causes more destruction and death than any or all of the good ones combined. Have you ever seen what a whole bushel of rotten apples does to one good apple? What I am trying to say, and my vocabulary is not great enough to do it justice, is that even though we are admonished to love one another, we are also admonished to seperate ourselves from sin. I would never take my children / grandchildren to visit the house of someone who constantly use profanity even though they know I do not believe in that kind of language. Doesn't mean I do not love that person enough to witness to them and help them!!!<br /><br />Perhaps I didn't do this question justice...

 

[Elmer Fudge]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

So am i correct in thinking that it's ok for one to inflict harm in response to harm recieved?

 

[spratt]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Would I repay harm for harm? No, I do not believe I would.<br /><br />Now, I ask, are you preparing to ask if this war in Iraq is right or wrong? The Bible, Old Testament, is FULL of wars, many of which were actually instigated bby God Himself...and therefore I would call them Holy Wars...who am I to judge whether God was right or wrong in those matters. I do know that the lands He had Israel clear out and destroy were inhabited by those descendants of some of the most vile God haters ever to live...and who are still living in those foreign lands, teh descendants of the ones Israel disobeyed God about and did not totally destroy out of the land as He had commanded.<br /><br />But, no, I do not believe in eye for eye literally. Jesus said, You have heard it was said an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, but I tell you that if a man smite the one cheek, you should turn the other also. See, Jesus did not come to destroy the LAW of teh Old Testament, but to FULFILL it!! After all, why would He change His own words?? Meekness is what I believe. But I would fight for the freedom and rightness of this country. I served my time in the US Military...<br /><br />That was just to preface the next question, and if I was wrong, and you were going to go another route, I apologize.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

How wrong you are JB....."I am amazed that someone who embraces religion as you would show so little knowledge of Christ and Christianity."<br /><br />I dont embrace Religion and in truth I believe that "religion is what most people who speak out against Christianity are really speaking about.I have a relationship with God and I dont believe in ritual as those caught up with religion tend to. I have never ever once said I was an expert on other religions so for you to be suprised I know so little of these other groups....quite frankly suprises me. Where you are wrong in your assumtion is that We reserve heaven for ourselves.......But what the bible says and what we believe, at least my family pastor and friends, is the only way into heaven is through accepting Christ as our saviour and allowing him to give us the gift of salvation. It does not matter what religion you are....Jew, Catholic, Evagelical, buddist or whatever without accepting his gift you cant go before the Lord........So once agin Jb quit lumping all Christians together as you see fit.

 

[bayman]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

<quote>So am i correct in thinking that it's ok for one to inflict harm in response to harm recieved?</quote><br /><br />According to the Law of Moses that would be okay. It is my belief that Jesus did away with the Law of Moses though. Jesus said that we should turn the other cheek.<br /><br />Quoted from Mathew chapter 5, The Sermon on the Mount:<br />"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away".

 

[jtexas]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

hey spratt, sorry if I sounded "preachy," we're on the same team!

 

[spratt]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

No no...I just thought I could see that war question coming It has happened to me many times exactly like that!<br /><br />Please, tell me if I sound as though I am force feeding anyone. I just love to talk about God, and I believe that a man / woman SHOULD be living what they "preach"...<br /><br />I didn't mean to make it sound as though you had an agenda...sorry!

 

[NathanY]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Originally posted by mikeandronda:<br /> Many do though from A Christians point of veiw there is alot that is twisted and messed up. The muslems, Mormans and jehova witness's all believe in Jesus.....but Im pretty sure he is just a prophet to them.

This is where you are WRONG with respect to Jehova's witnesses. They beleive that Jesus is the son of God, and also beleive that the only way to God is through him. The only difference between a Jehova's witness and any other religion, is that they take a more fundamental and literal approach to the Bible.

 

[spratt]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Originally posted by Nate in AR:<br /> QUOTE]This is where you are WRONG with respect to Jehova's witnesses. They beleive that Jesus is the son of God, and also beleive that the only way to God is through him. The only difference between a Jehova's witness and any other religion, is that they take a more fundamental and literal approach to the Bible.

Nate, perhaps you are a Jehovah's Witness, and for all the world I would not cause you offence. However, I do have to say that my wife's sisters (two) are also JW, and I must say that there are way more differences than you say. In fact, the Jehovah Witness and the LDS / Mormon doctrine is so much different than "mainstream" religion that they are often referred to as "cults"!!! Now, I am not going to put myself in a position to say that I am an expert on either, but I am going to say this, there are major differences. One states that only 144,000 of the JEWS only are going to be in heaven with Jesus. Is that incorrect? We will definitely find out one day! One of them baptize people in proxy for dead people who were not baptized. I have NEVER found that int eh Bible. Is it wrong? We will certainly know for sure one day!! And which one is it that teaches Jesus is the brother of Lucifer?

 

[Elmer Fudge]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

The war in Iraq is not something that tweeks my curiousity,I am fully aware that the USA did not invade Iraq because of religion.<br />The laws of Moses as stated is aligned to judaism as previously stated somewhere, now this is quite the opposite to what jesus taught as also previously stated. so where did the term judeo-christian which is constantly used by the evangelics originate? Is judaism also a branch of christianity?

 

[spratt]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Originally posted by Elmer Fudge:<br /> The laws of Moses as stated is aligned to judaism as previously stated somewhere, now this is quite the opposite to what jesus taught as also previously stated. so where did the term judeo-christian which is constantly used by the evangelics originate? Is judaism also a branch of christianity?

The book of Acts, written by Jews as they were moved upon by God, states that after the Gentiles were offered the same salvation that the Jews enjoyed, this great salvation is for all that afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. I do not know about the origin of the term Judeo-Christian. And I do not think that all Jews believe in the New Testament Jesus as God. They didn't back then before they crucified Him, and some still do not. They are STILL looking for Him to come...and He WILL come, but they will not be ready unless they do accept Him for who He is and what He did for them.<br /><br />Sorry I cannot answer exactly what you are asking. Surely though, someone here is qualified to do so...

 

[spratt]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

jTexas, I just realized that I answered you while I was thinking about something else...we were discussing teh Golden Rule, not the war...sorry I mis-posted to ya...

 

[JB]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

M&R. <br /><br />EDIT<br /><br />Sorry if I offended you, but your post was an insult to LDS and Jehovah's Witnesses church members.