I'm not a religious man, but......

[spratt]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

JB, I wonder how many people Jesus must have offended...so many so that finally, they just hung Him up ona cross...hey, there are going to be offenses in this life. There is just no possibiilty to make one's beliefs known without someone being offended. I pity the man who thinks he can make it through this life without either offending or being offended. I believe that people have such thin skin these days, that we are wide open for such things as "Political Correctness", and those who propogate that kind of tolerance offend me greatly. There somes a point that one must just take the punches and roll with them. <br /><br />I admin, JB, you do a pretty good job of taking the punches adn rolling with them most of the time. What I just do not understand is your IN-tolerance of Christians. Perhaps someone in the past did you wrong? Please, I am just curious, and you don't even have to answer, and I am not picking at you either!!

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

JB there is a difference from religion and accepting Christ's gift. I will repeat the Bible says there is only one way into heaven and that is through Christ and that means everybody is invited reguardless of religion.......ok it sounds like splitting hairs but in truth much of what people argue about and the difference in denominations and whos saved and whos not is just Religion and it really probably doesnt matter to God. Now as for my post being an ignorant one....your right im completely ignorant about many others beliefs but I was not posting as a expert only trying to answer a question I felt I may have some valuable input on. YOU base your knowledge on Christians to the one you met and by doing so have showed your ingnorance and also you are no better than those who you blast on this forum time and time agin for being close minded bigots.....I say you need to figure out what the heck is going on in your life that has turned you into the bitter old man as of latley and for the sake of us all who spend a good amount of time on this forum bring the far and decient man that used to post under the moniker of JB. If I need to learn more about others if I preach about my beliefs( Which i feel is a stupid statement) you need to learn about others in order to talk about them. You made an ingnorant statement comparing Mormans, jehovh witness's and Christians.....well thats like saying muslems and Christians and Jews are all the same.......they are not.....but they do have similar ideas in many areas....they are different religions and yet belive Christ exsited just not as a diety.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Oh and for your information i dont need to know about other religions to feel Im right in my beliefs.....its called faith. I never attacked anybody with my statement I just said from a Christians point of veiw there is alot that is twisted and messed up. and JB if you read the Bible ......which has been around before all these other religions I mentioned it says nothing of Jesus being anything less then a diety........All 3 of the ones I mentioned took what was writen and put their own spin on it so no offense to you but you seem to have not much more knowledge on the subject then I.

 

[NathanY]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Spratt: Yes most of what you posted is incorrect. I dont know what they are teaching your sisters inlaw, but they are waaaaayyyy off base. The JW only teaches what is in the Bible. Only. They have no other sources unlike the LDS's that have the Book of Mormon. Everything that they teach is in plain print in the Bible. If you have questions, I will be more than happy to answer them for you.<br /><br />What you are refering to is Revelation 14:1 <br /><br />"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written on their foreheads.<br /><br />Then Revelations 14:3 goes on to say:<br /><br />"And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.<br /><br />If you think that when you die that you automatically go to heaven or hell maybe you should read this.<br /><br />Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for them the memory of them is forgotten."<br /><br />But there is hope!<br /><br />John 5:28 "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice." <br /><br />29 "And shall come forth; they that have done good, untothe resurrection of life; and they that done evil, unto the ressurection of damnation."

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Elmer....... it is my understanding that Chistianity is a branch of Judaism not the otherway. We( Christians) are a grafted branch onto the tree.<br /><br />Nate Is it true that waht the JW's teach is there will only be a certian amount of people allowed into heaven.....and that it has been determined how many that will be by the scripture you included?

 

[NathanY]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Originally posted by mikeandronda:<br /> Elmer....... it is my understanding that Chistianity is a branch of Judaism not the otherway. We( Christians) are a grafted branch onto the tree.<br /><br />Nate Is it true that waht the JW's teach is there will only be a certian amount of people allowed into heaven.....and that it has been determined how many that will be by the scripture you included?

Yes that is what they teach, but I dont know, but all I can do is take the Bible for what it says. I guess that is why it is called faith. I take the Bible very literally, but I am by no means a scholar. <br /><br />By the way, I am not affiliated with the JW but I have followed their teachings and from what I have seen through their publications( which I have many) everything that they say is scripturally (sp?) based and can be looked up.

 

[NOSLEEP]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

M&R...Commence your journey unencumbered with<br />either the weight of unnecessary knowledge or the<br />handicap of meaningless experiance. God has <br />already supplied you with knowledge and instinct<br />far greater than any animal.<br />The value of experience is overrated, usually by<br />old men who nod wisely and speak stupidly. In<br />truth, experience teaches thoroughly yet her<br />course of instruction devours mens years so the<br />value of her lessons diminishes with the time<br />necessary to aquire her special wisdom. The end<br />finds it wasted on dead men.Furthermore experience<br />is comparable to fashion., an action that proves<br />successful today will beunworkable and impractical<br />tomorrow. Only principles endure.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Spratt, I had to read through all of this, but I need to say, We are on the same team Pal. I was just a bit vague is all. I have no problem in anything you have said to this point.<br /><br />Nate, sorry buddy, but the Jahovas witness bible is different than mine, I have spent a lot of time looking at them both, and they have committed a very big mistake changing many things around.<br /><br />For instanc John 1:1. Your bible dosnt say the same as mine.

 

[NathanY]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

LubeDude:<br /><br />Really? I dont know what Bible you use, but I use the King James Version published by The World Publishing Company and the New World Translation.<br /><br />Both of mine say:<br />John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.<br /><br />What does yours say?

 

[NathanY]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Like I said, I have no affiliation with the JW. Infact, if anything, I am Baptist. I have many friends that are JW's. I just like alot of you here were misinformed about their faith. I bought into the crap like they have their own bible, and have screwy beleifs, all of it. But, I actually sat down with them and listened to what they had to say. Their beleif system is not much different than mine. So, dont judge on something until you have actually done the research, which most of you have not.

 

[DJ]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

I am a Christian, non demoninational, as we call it. Not Catholic, Methodist or any other.<br /><br />We generally believe in two things.<br /><br />1. Jesus is your Savior and Representative to God when you check out of this world.<br /><br />2. You follow the scriptures and try as best as, humanly, possible to follow the directions within.<br /><br />Notice, I mentioned "human". We are all that. This belief system is a walk, with the maker, it only becomes a destination when one leaves here.<br /><br />It does not cost anything, nor does it hurt. It's just a belief system that holds one accountable believing that there is a just reward when one checks out of this world. As one starts to "walk the walk" it tends to change you. You stop being "me" centered and you start to care about others. There are also many "earthly" rewards, should one try to access them. <br /><br />God has blessed myself and my family beyond my comprehension. It's all part of the package. We try to lead by example, yet we are all human.<br /><br />Pretty simple actually.

 

[Triton II]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

I'm not at all religious, but I believe that Christian values give a good foundation to life. I respect everyone's right to their religion, be it Christianity, Islam or Judaism. What I do not respect is the fanatical and often lethal interpretation of their religion that some sectors of some religious movements enforce on others.

 

[DJ]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

JB,<br /><br />I mentioned this before and I think you agree.<br /><br />"Religion" was invented by past/present rulers of the world as a control tool to keep the masses within their power. Fear is a very powerful tool. That is the primary reason that our founding fathers wrote the constitution as they did.<br /><br />If you read the Scriptures, they do not mention a "religion". However, who reads them and meditates on them?<br /><br />History shows us that only "clerics", "priests", etc., were allowed the scriptures to read. That fact, in itself, allows for human intervention for their own, human, rise to power.<br /><br />That is not what the scriptures are all about. The Salvation of man, in general, is free and available to everyone.<br /><br />For the most part, mankind has been duped by the "powerful" of any society.<br /><br />Redemption is free. Religion has a very large pricetag.

 

[snapperbait]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Amen, DJ..

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

The decon gave a good sermon a while back on the "turn the other cheek" thing.<br /><br />He said in cases of self preservation, war is allowed.<br /><br />If someone breaks into your house with intent to kill you, you are allowed to protect yourself, and are not required to "turn the other cheek".<br /><br />If someone is doing things to antagonize you into a fight, (i.e. slapping your face), then you are to turn the other cheek.<br /><br />Spratt, I am not sure if the bible says to be tolerant, but I know the preist and our church says to be. In fact, last year we had speakers from all of the other world religions give talks at the church to explain their religion.<br /><br />Ken

 

[JB]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Agree, DJ.<br /><br />I am tired of being called names because of my beliefs. I have been intimidated into silence by the righteous majority. How sad.<br /><br />I hereby resign from further discussions of this ilk.<br /><br />Except, that is, to enforce iboats rules having to do with personal insults and attacks.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Originally posted by Nate in AR:<br /> Like I said, I have no affiliation with the JW. Infact, if anything, I am Baptist. I have many friends that are JW's. I just like alot of you here were misinformed about their faith. I bought into the crap like they have their own bible, and have screwy beleifs, all of it. But, I actually sat down with them and listened to what they had to say. Their beleif system is not much different than mine. So, dont judge on something until you have actually done the research, which most of you have not.

Sorry Nathan, Religion can put people that ordinarily are good freinds at odds with each oth, for sure do not want to do that here as I concider you a freind. "But"!!<br /><br />The JWs as you call them are "NOT" the Christians you beleive them to be. Many of them really dont actually know what to beleive as there supiriors tell them everything and they beleive that you cant actually understand the Bible without the watchtower. and I "HAVE" done my homework. They have there own Bible and Its "Not" copied correctly. Go to the local Bible book store that has VCR tapes for rent, they will have tapes on the JWs you can find out for yourself. Also tapes on the Laterday saints. Real eye openers.<br /><br />As to the Laterday Saints being "Christians", NOT!!! They do not beleive Jesus to be God, and thats quite a problem. They also beleive that YOU can become a god, and thats not right either.<br /><br />Sorry for saying "Your Bible", I should have said theres.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

JB, i dont think anyone called you names.<br /><br />Spratt just asked you why your postings give the impression you are anti-Christian. M&R questioned your knowledge of the subject, but it was done in a fairly respectful way.<br /><br />I thought we were all having a good discussion, and everyone was behaving.<br /><br />I enjoy learning about other's beliefs. The neat thing about religion is everyone has their own belief, but no one can prove their belief is correct. Faith is the only proof.<br /><br />Ken

 

[jtexas]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

about the war, this is my philosophy. <br /><br />Osama Bin Laden used his own peculiar brand of Islam to justify his attacks; President Bush has no peculiar brand of Christianity to justify the war on Afganistan or Iraq. He has only his responsibility as the Head of State of the USA and Leader of the Free World. <br /><br />The Jewish people were expecting a Messiah who would be a political & military leader. Many of Jesus' followers expected Him to take that role right up until his death. Jesus didn't dabble in politics at all and some (myself included) believe that he instructed us to keep our politics separate from our religion: "Give unto Ceasar that which is Ceasar's, give unto God that which is God's."<br /><br />Self-preservation is a strong instinct which I believe comes from God. Jesus might very well have "turned the other cheek," but I don't believe he was discussing military defense.<br /><br />Am I rationalizing? If so, then so be it.<br /><br />As I understand it, a "jihad," or "holy war" cannot be waged (except in defense of Islam)on "peoples of the book," which include followers of the descendants of Abraham: Muslims, Jews and, by extension, Christians. Arabs descended from Ishmael, Abraham's first son by Sarah's maid Hagar, and Jews from Isaac, firstborn son to Sarah and Abraham (see Genesis chapter 22 or thereabouts). They've been at it tooth & nail ever since, but to call it a "holy war" is a distortion of Islam. Don't take my word for it, though, I'm far from an expert. Since the U.S. isn't ruled by a "religious" government I guess they figure we're all just godless infidels?<br /><br />it's just a theory.

 

[spratt]

Re: I'm not a religious man, but......

Originally posted by DJ:<br /> If you read the Scriptures, they do not mention a "religion". However, who reads them and meditates on them?

DJ, the Scriptures DO indeed mention "religion"...in Jesus's day, there were two sects of "Religions", those being Pharisees, and the other being Sadducees. Just a point...<br /><br />Who reads and meditates on scripture? Well, for one, I do, and have been doing so for over 26 years now. I have read the Bible through for almost every year since 1977, and I never grow weary of the wonderful reports about God's people throughout the scriptures.<br /><br /><br />

History shows us that "clerics", "priests", etc., were allowed the scriptures to read. That fact, in itself, allows for human intervention for their own, human, rise to power.[/QB]

The Catholic church is, I believe, the only Religion that did not permit their folks to read the scriptures, but if there were others, I am not aware, and you might be able to help me there. When I was in teh Navy nearly 30 years ago, I had a good Philipino friend who would not read the Bible. He would listen to me, but would NOT read it himself. He was Catholic. I am not knocking the Catholics, here, so let's not get off on a tangent, anyone. I am stating things that history will prove out. However, I do beleive that the Catholic church has some major malfunctions, and I say that with experience since my wife and several of my best friends all came out of that church after many years.<br /><br />JB, I went back through the posts, and I probably missed it, but I did not see any name calling at you. If I did, I never meant to!!