hull extension in progress with pics

[Robj]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

I'll be up there next weekend. Ondarvr, when do you plan on going up? Would be great to drink a few of Oops's Coronas on his boat. Who needs water, in the shop is fine...for now. I plan on taking my coveralls and maybe even do a little work while I am there. Oops! BTW my mother-in-laws neighbour is Kim. I will ask him when I am up there next weekend.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[jcsercsa]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Man oops that looks freaking great !!!!!! cant belive how good the side turned out !!! let me know how that work out with tacking the one side frist works !!!

YOU THE MAN OOOPS !!!!! LOOKS SO GOOD BUDDIE !!!!

John

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Flipping the hull won't be as difficult as you might think and will cut weeks or months off the work compared to doing it upside down. I can come up and give you hand when it gets to that point.

Once it gets turned over we can see how much work the hull needs, maybe you'll get that stepped hull you wanted. I was at a customer recently and I asked them about how they decided where to put the step. The answer was, "we just put it where it looked the best and was easy to do, as they're of little or no help on hulls 24' or less and you need to go faster than these boats will go for it to help any how". They had a stepped hull because everyone (customers) asked for one and it was too difficult to explain why it really wasn't needed. With this method we can put it where ever it's needed to make the job easier and then just tell everybody it adds 10MPH.

If the hull has deep areas that need to be filled, light weight fillers can be used as long as you put a layer of glass (1708) over it.

well that a big headache that was starting to form, all cleared up!

as far as rolling the hull.....i wasnt looking foward to laying on my back for weeks.....i was going to try to farm it out to a local glasser......
but rolling it might be fun......and certianly make a good tutorial of the thread !
i got a hull lotta football players that would help.....

as far as the step....id still love one.....but iffen it aint gonna help...look good tho!

its amazing what the pull of a discovery channel story on the stepped hull did for production....they been using it for a while on screemers....i think oke mannerfelt did the first one..??

but after the discovery channel bit ive seen a lot of boats with them...mostly over 30 feet

 

[redfury]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

I'd certainly be interested in seeing that hull getting flipped by unconventional means ( ie. no mechanical device ).

Sure would be nice to be able to just rotate the whole works on a pivot system like they can do with car bodies...oh the luxury!

I had planned to flip my hull to work on and pain the bottom, but after taking the cap off, I had no intentions of doing it...the sides are way to flimsy on these glastrons to even THINK about doing that without the cap. In order to flip it with the cap, I'd have to remove all the cap hardware, windshield, and then roll the boat over. That scares the crap out of me...I can just hear the 30+ year old fiberglass cracking from stress

Not that I want to scare you out of trying it my little G. Pig

 

[erikgreen]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Impressive work, I wish I was closer so I could help too.

Coupla things - for the sanding/fairing board, I'd recommend a piece of the plastic board everyone seems to want to try making stringers out of. You want a flexible but stiff board to fair with.

Use a guide coat to help fair... basically spray a very light layer of black spray paint over the dried fairing compound then use the sanding board... you'll be able to see where it's removing material and where it's not, which helps tons. When you reach the point where it's sanding the entire area in question, it's evenly flat.

For my own seats, I'm mounting them on my 3/4" deck, so that'll help. I will only have one pedestal, and that's getting through bolted to a backing plate of aluminum, since I have an 8 inch inspection plate going near there.

Erik

PS: I've been spending all my time working on my boat instead of updating... I'm amazed you find so much time to post here

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

i get to post on the forum when im at work....as long as theres no coustomers

 

[redfury]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

i get to post on the forum when im at work....as long as theres no customers

See, a man with priorities!

Say oops!, I was thinking again ( I know, bad idea ) about the stringer wrapping technique we all seem to be trying to figure out.

Since the glass you are using doesn't want to conform once it's wetted out..I can only assume partly due to the expansion as it fills in with resin, what about creasing the cloth? I mean, I'm not really familiar with anything but the little cloth sheets you get from the auto store ( I've got about 8 packets of them laying around here from god-knows-where ), so I don't have a lot of handling experience with the heavier stuff.

Can it be creased? My line of thinking is that the glass that is woven where it is essentially going to "bow" over the stringer is what is lifting the glass up and creating the air pocket. If you could crease that glass ( create a break line ), perhaps it would conform to the stringer better.

Or, would it just be easier to do more layups to get the thickness that you want, but use a lighter cloth that can conform to that curvature ?

I guess I'm having a hard time imagining in my head the stress on the top of the stringer. If you layed up heavy on the sides with thicker glass, and then ran a few layers over the top of the stringer cap, wouldn't you essentially get a "plywood" type effect for strength, and have a good bond with the sides of the stringer to avoid any stresses from lateral sheering?

It's the forces applied to the stringer and the proper glass layup that I'm trying to sort through my head, as well as the actual strength of bond between 2 separate layers of glass. Heady stuff here! Wheres an engineer when you need him/her ?

 

[ondarvr]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Capping the stringer does add more strength, is it needed, I don't know, but it's just like an I beam. Try putting a strip of mat under the 1708 and over it, this helps hold the resin against the long strands of glass, as they tend to not hold resin well, then spring back. If the resin is thin it will drain out easier also, so adding a slight amount of silica (Aerosil or Cabosil) can help, don't add much though. Light cloth can help hold it down also.

 

[kbomb]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

I've been thinking about the top o' the stringer wrapping problem... I drew a quick diagram of an idea I have thought about.

I don't know how one would go about cutting the dowel in thirds. But I wonder if the hardware store sells some molding that would give the same effect?

Essentially the idea is the same as simply rounding the top of the stringer, but the dowel gives it added thickness to make it that much easier for the glass to wrap.

Critique away...

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

multi quoting takes me forever red, so ill judt answer normal,....here goes...

i tried to cerase it as much as i could...i let sit overnight on a plywood edge...

then folded and pressed it before i placed it on the stringer.....

i dont even think an iron would work !...(as in ironing board)....

i have some one oz matt that i am trying....it goes just about anywhere and will bend round the tops....but i need many layers.....but nowhere as strong as the 1708.....

the stringers stregnth comes from the glass top....kinda like an i beam....
i could just glass the sides and cap the top with thin strips of glass, but im worried about the bond between the sides and top.....(im really overthinking things)....but if i just cap them...i have no way of joining the glass on the sides to the glass on top....if glass does not meet glass....and there is just a thin resin bond at the joint, it will have just about no stregnth...as poly resin by it self is really weak....the epoxy guys dont have to worry about this much, because of the stregnth of epoxy,

im trying wize's method of tacking the glass to the string first, then weting out, just as soon as i can get to the boat..... i didnt get a chance to go there last night...i hope i can tonight.

cheers
oops

 

[ondarvr]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

With a layer of mat under and over the 1708 it may lay down and stay there. I didn't mean just cap it, but wrapped all the way over.

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Capping the stringer does add more strength, is it needed, I don't know, but it's just like an I beam. Try putting a strip of mat under the 1708 and over it, this helps hold the resin against the long strands of glass, as they tend to not hold resin well, then spring back. If the resin is thin it will drain out easier also, so adding a slight amount of silica (Aerosil or Cabosil) can help, don't add much though. Light cloth can help hold it down also.

thanks rvr.....
am i being too anal about this?....i know for years they didnt even use glass on the strings....

the reason i havent capped them yet is beacuse the resin layer between the glass on the sides and the top layer of glass.....(allmost pure resin)....
should i just get on with the build and quit putzing with this picky stuff?
i dont want to waste time on somthing that makes little or no difference to the build?

thanks
oops

I've been thinking about the top o' the stringer wrapping problem... I drew a quick diagram of an idea I have thought about.

I don't know how one would go about cutting the dowel in thirds. But I wonder if the hardware store sells some molding that would give the same effect?

Essentially the idea is the same as simply rounding the top of the stringer, but the dowel gives it added thickness to make it that much easier for the glass to wrap.

Critique away...

if a person even cut a dowelling in half and glued it to the sides....allmost, exactally like your diagram.....it would solve all problems, and add exterme stregnth.....glass just needs a slight curve to go around, it hates sharp corners.

i havent done it because of the extra full day it would take to do it to my stringer set up.

but your idea is totally sound...cheap...and would add super stregnth to any boat.

cheers
oops

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

heh heh heh were all on and ty ping just as fast as we can...lol

 

[redfury]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

You could use wood saddles to make that top bend easier if the contour would be good enough for the fiberglass to conform to. Seems then that the idea stringer profile would be that of a train track when it's all said and done for optimal strength/ease of glassing.

Well, I plan to tear out and replace the center stringer of my boat AT THE VERY LEAST ( I say with conviction! Damnit, I'm getting SOMETHING done this year! ), and I may just go this route...put the work into it and document the process.

I'm thinking of laying up the outer stringers outside the boat using foam panels as a form and then trimming and glassing them to the boat. I might be able to get more done this way, and if I screw up, it'll be out of the boat instead of in it...I may actually be able to get somewhere progress-wise going that route...

I've got a question for you oops!... When you lay the glass up the sides of the stringers, you didn't go to the top of them? I guess that was my thought...Glass thick right to the top of the stringer, cut off the excess, then lay the top part on. If you were to alternate the top and the sides, you'd almost be laminating like shuffling a deck of cards...you'd think that you might see some strength just from that.

As far as moulding goes, you could use base shoe molding, but you'd need two pieces per side to get the contour. it's 3/4 inch high by 1/2 thick. Butt the 1/2" together and lay now, you'd have 1 1/2" of wood to contour the glass against with a 1/2" rise and drop on each side.

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

You could use wood saddles to make that top bend easier if the contour would be good enough for the fiberglass to conform to. Seems then that the idea stringer profile would be that of a train track when it's all said and done for optimal strength/ease of glassing.

Well, I plan to tear out and replace the center stringer of my boat AT THE VERY LEAST ( I say with conviction! Damnit, I'm getting SOMETHING done this year! ), and I may just go this route...put the work into it and document the process.

I'm thinking of laying up the outer stringers outside the boat using foam panels as a form and then trimming and glassing them to the boat. I might be able to get more done this way, and if I screw up, it'll be out of the boat instead of in it...I may actually be able to get somewhere progress-wise going that route...

I've got a question for you oops!... When you lay the glass up the sides of the stringers, you didn't go to the top of them? I guess that was my thought...Glass thick right to the top of the stringer, cut off the excess, then lay the top part on. If you were to alternate the top and the sides, you'd almost be laminating like shuffling a deck of cards...you'd think that you might see some strength just from that.

As far as moulding goes, you could use base shoe molding, but you'd need two pieces per side to get the contour. it's 3/4 inch high by 1/2 thick. Butt the 1/2" together and lay now, you'd have 1 1/2" of wood to contour the glass against with a 1/2" rise and drop on each side.

what i should have done...was to lay a thin strip of 10 oz on the top of the strings...then wrap them with 1 oz...the 1 oz will wrap....leaving a 3 or 4 inch overlap down the sides of the strings...then glass the sides in 1708.....then a top cap of 1708...lotta putzin around....but as strong ..and water proof as possible

 

[jameskb2]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

As far as moulding goes, you could use base shoe molding, but you'd need two pieces per side to get the contour. it's 3/4 inch high by 1/2 thick. Butt the 1/2" together and lay now, you'd have 1 1/2" of wood to contour the glass against with a 1/2" rise and drop on each side.

You can buy half round moulding at any good trim shop. Your big box outlet might have it too. It's basically your large dowel cut in half lengthwise.

 

[Robj]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

I think people underestimate the strength of matt. On my boat, that is all they used on the stringers, so it definitely does add strength. With the stringer, when it bends, part of it is in tension, and part of it in compression, wth the neutral axis down the center. You highest loads are at the outermost edge, which is where you need the strength and why IMO they should be capped. I would try as Ondarvr suggested, hopefully that will do the trick.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Yes, a few layers of mat would work, it's not that it's that weak, but the increase in strength when woven or stitched products are used is substantial. So if possible it would be nice to have it go over the top of the stringer. oops! has a chart with a comparison of 1/4' laminates made with mat, mat and roving, and biax.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

I'm becoming more and more aware of the limitations of hand layup... I really want to get into vacuum bagging if I do this again... it would make certain things very much easier, like getting glass to form over stringer tops like this.

I'm kind of back to the mold idea... put the wetted glass over the top edge, put a sheet of clear plastic over it, then use multiple clamps to hold it down tight until it tacks. Remove the clamps and peel the plastic.

I dunno how it would work for bubbles, though.

The other thing that might work is multiple thin pieces of cloth... I put several layers of 8 oz on mine without a ton of bubbles....

Erik

 

[Coors]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Make the stringers 3'' wide, and anything is easy to bend over it.