hull extension in progress with pics

[Robj]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

I believe you can get a gluelam beam from some lumber yards. Know the one by my place sells them. Or you can try and find some suitable lumber at a used building supply place. There are plenty of old buildings that have been torn down that had big timbers in them.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

I'm pretty sure what you're talking about is also referred to as "engineered lumber" and gets used for door headers, etc.

Erik

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

fantastic ideas guys....knew i could count on yall...

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

i didnt get to spend as much time on the boat tonight as i wanted.....so it was a prep day for larger work......

i thought i would just cut and pre fit the glass then start glassing.....

i started cutting......and cutting

each peice of this glass has one underneath it......

this will be for a double wrap of 1708.....

i decided to wrap the stringers rather than cap them....i just couldnt see continuous stregnth in a cap over a wrap.......wrapping a 3/4 inch board is tricky.....glass doesnt like to bend round corners and air bubbles at the top will be a pain........i cut the cloth along the longitudnal lines so it would be easyer to make a total wrap....

each peice is larger than the one under it, so it will have a 3 inch overlap to the hull.....

here i started to cut the engine mount glass while i made up my mind to wrap the strings..

it took me 5 hours to cut and fit all this glass.......and about a 1/3 of a roll of cloth.

normally it isnt a good idea to cut glass a day or two before the layup, as the glass tends to get creasedand deformed......this can cause trouble during wet out and cause air bubbles.....however...in this case, i wanted the glass to crease...

.....


in the last pic you can see the longitudnal lines of the cloth......cut this way, it will make it easer to wrap the stringers.

now....because i left it so long between glass jobs....i get to ruff and scuff the whole hull again.....oh joy ...thats 5 hours with the hull and stringer surface...vaccume the hull....2 hours....then acetone it...1/2 hour....

that does not include the 2 hours its going to take me to remove all this cloth and find a place to put it in order and cover it so it wont get contaminated from grinding dust.

ill leave the acetone till im ready to glass....that will be thursday....the glassing should take me 2 days.....with the full hull glass with waxed resin on saturday night...then the deck

cheers
oops

 

[jcsercsa]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Hay buddie what is the width of the glass you have ? it looks bigger then 60 inchs .
When you wet out the glass , going the longitudinal arent you going the break the glass when you wet it out going over the top of the stringers ?? do you know what i mean ?? and if the answer is yes , does that cut down on the strength of it ?? just trying to get this right in my mind .. if thats possible ....lol or am i thinking latitudinal ?? are the lines running with the stringers ?? lol John

 

[redfury]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

I was thinking about the issue of forming the glass to make that bend on the top of the stringers.

What about a formed length of foam that would fit over the stringer. Obviously this would be hard to do on a grand scale layup like Oops is doing, but if you were to apply your glass and then a layer of wax paper ( wax side down obviously ) and then press the foam over the top of it, perhaps apply some weight to keep it pressing down on the glass to help hold its shape? Or would th e heat from the resin be a possible problem deforming the foam. I would think you could use the pink polystyrene sheets from a building supplier to make the form.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

That's not a terrible thought.

Personally I was considering using some angle iron or aluminum sections, waxed, mounted standoff on some 2x4, to get the glass to conform. Sort of a mold for the stringer tops. Still not sure it'd avoid bubbles, though.

Erik

 

[sbklf]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

each peice of this glass has one underneath it......

i decided to wrap the stringers rather than cap them....i just couldnt see continuous stregnth in a cap over a wrap.......wrapping a 3/4 inch board is tricky.....glass doesnt like to bend round corners and air bubbles at the top will be a pain........i cut the cloth along the longitudnal lines so it would be easyer to make a total wrap....

each peice is larger than the one under it, so it will have a 3 inch overlap to the hull.....

in the last pic you can see the longitudnal lines of the cloth......cut this way, it will make it easer to wrap the stringers.

cheers
oops

Consider laying the largest pieces of glass first, then you dont have to worry about air and being resin rich at the edges of the first layer.

Capping (if done correctly) or scabbing to the side of the upper portions of the stringers strengthens the stringers and offers better adheasion area for the sole. How do you plan to attach the sole to the stringers? Capping is better done before the stringer is installed (kind of hard to work upside down like you would have to). With capping a lot of strength comes from the tie between the cap and stringer.

With 90 on 90 cloth, layed like that, for stringer tie in your only getting the benefit of the vertical strands. With good fillets and straight lines, inside corners are easy to lay. 45 on 45 mat (dont know if it comes in weaved) is better for stringer tie in.

Outside corners are tough. You can roll resin on the surface and let it kick and while still tacky stick the cloth down then wet it from the top

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

How do you plan to attach the sole to the stringers?

With capping a lot of strength comes from the tie between the cap and stringer.

Outside corners are tough. You can roll resin on the surface and let it kick and while still tacky stick the cloth down then wet it from the top

1. the sole will be attached using frames at 4 foot centers...
the sole will also be in contact with the top of the strings.

2. thats why i was worried about capping them...no matter how much glass is on the side or the top..it would just be a light strand tie...very resin rich and therefore....weak.

3. that is what i was thinking about doing...mix a hotter batch of resin...wet the top and mould the glass to the sides....wait to tak...then glass the rest.....lotta work...as you can see the amount of glass to go on...but its gotta all be done.

thanks...
oops

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Hay buddie what is the width of the glass you have ? it looks bigger then 60 inchs .
When you wet out the glass , going the longitudinal arent you going the break the glass when you wet it out going over the top of the stringers ?? do you know what i mean ?? and if the answer is yes , does that cut down on the strength of it ?? just trying to get this right in my mind .. if thats possible ....lol or am i thinking latitudinal ?? are the lines running with the stringers ?? lol John

the width of the roll is 50 ins.....
due to the massive legnth of the stringer layups. i had to cut the roll differently.....so i could get the glass longitudnal.......
im not explaining it very well.......if the glass was ply wood...it is layed over the stringer with the grain.....

as far as breaking the glass.....the amount of stregnth lost would be minimal as there is still a fiber on fiber contact, saturated with resin.

it is just that glass doesnt like to make outside corners. inside corners arent that bad because you can just apply pressure to the roller ans squish it in there.....with out side corners....the glass wants to come away from the wall.......


oh man........john......your a genious...!!!!! ......

it just came to me.....so simple......ill post it on the next update.

cheers
oops

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

I was thinking about the issue of forming the glass to make that bend on the top of the stringers.

That's not a terrible thought.

Personally I was considering using some angle iron or aluminum sections, waxed, mounted standoff on some 2x4, to get the glass to conform. Sort of a mold for the stringer tops. Still not sure it'd avoid bubbles, though.

Erik

you guys are gonna love this.....im gonna go try an idea......ill post on it tommorow, ...if it works.....all problems solved

cheers
oops

 

[redfury]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Erik, the one thing I was trying to take into account was that while you are building up the glass on the sides you are not necessarily going to have an exact thickness that is going to be the same down the length of the stringer, not to mention taking in account the thickness of the glass wetted out. The idea behind the foam was the ability to conform to the irregularity while keeping pressure on the glass.

A good idea though getting the resin to kick/tack and then apply the glass on the top, roll out the bubbles, and apply the form. Should be able to keep the glass from lifting.

I dunno. Experimentation can only tell what will work, and it sounds like our faithful guinea pig is hard at work

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

its 2 am here ...i just got home from the "battle o the bote"

was gonna post tonight but im too tired....ill post in the morning....(noon ish eastern).....

this little guinea piggy's gotta shower and get some sleep

 

[jcsercsa]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

its 2 am here ...i just got home from the "battle o the bote"

was gonna post tonight but im too tired....ill post in the morning....(noon ish eastern).....

this little guinea piggy's gotta shower and get some sleep

WHAT ??? we want pics !!!!! and I want to hear more on how smart i am !!!!!!!!!!! lol John

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

i was really exited to try the new idea.....

but i needed a new suit 7 th one.....
i stopped at rona...(like home depot) and got one.....id been using the paper coveralls for painting....i had never been able to find a tyvec set. i knew i coud find them at safety supply stores but, i could not get away during business hours to grab one....finally i found one (a tyvec) at canadian tire..
but it didnt have a hood..... so i thought id just wear both.!....the tyvec underneath and the hooded paper one over top!

did it ever work great...no itch.....none at all.....i lost 10 pounds sweating...and my clothes were soaked...but no itch. (i weigh 170 on a good day, so 10 pounds to me goes from good to bone rack)


got back to the boat and started to work.
but first i had to find a spot to put all the glass i cut...then the ruff and scuff began.....

i thought i was done ruff and scuffing...but guess not....5 hours later...i still wasn't done.....

i still have an hour of scuffing left to do but it was near 11 pm and
i was excited to try the new idea, so i swept the bow area vaccumed and acetoned it

then i pre fit the glass......it looked good.....formed nice and tight.......

then i fully wet the area out and waited till it was tacky, then fit the glass

then i used "the trick"

stick pins !...why not?....the would hold the glass in place while i wet it out and could be easeily removed..!!!

so pins in place...i started wetting it out...

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

well to my great dismay.....as soon as the wet resin hit the glass....the glass expanded.....i worked for 1/2 hour....pins in .....then pins out.....

the pins didnt help at all.....so much for a great idea

glass just doesnt like sharp outside corners.....no matter how hard i tried ...and streched the glass...it still came back to air..

get one side and the top good ...and the other side is bad...

...

ive got some 1 oz matt i might try today......but i think im going to have to re cut the glass...and scabb a top cap of glass on.

i dont want to do this...but unless i put a wood cap on the stringer with rounded outside corners and glassed that...it wont work......

so now ive got to re cut all that glass...peice by peice....this could take a while....

cheers
oops

 

[i386]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Well keep at it. At least you know it's not right and working to correct it rather than do the whole job and then find out from someone else after it's all cured.

Since I'm new to this, I'm proceeding in small steps as I learn better how the materials behave. So far I am not finding epoxy hard to work with or even messy but I'm very careful and slow. Making peanut butter and sandable fillers is nowhere near as critical as I thought prior to doing it. It's pretty easy to tell when it's right, just like making biscuits or cornbread. I'm glad I bought the roller. It's very effective and to my surprise very easy to clean up.

It's warm today (72 degrees right now) and I expect to have more holes filled after work. I'm excited to get to it.

 

[WizeOne]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

You were on the right track oops. You should have stopped once you applied the glass to the tacked resin.

Once set, you can go back and wet it out later. I've done that on numerous occasions where the results would end up like yours.

 

[redfury]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

You were on the right track oops. You should have stopped once you applied the glass to the tacked resin.

Once set, you can go back and wet it out later. I've done that on numerous occasions where the results would end up like yours.

That, is a good idea!

I was thinking too, what about glassing the one side and across the top and letting it set up, then finish going down the other side? It may be a bit more tedious and time consuming, but I would think that you would have better control of the glass by essentially "anchoring" by bonding it to the stringer just before the point it would bend, and then finish the bend in the second round instead of trying to "force" the issue in one lay up?

 

[WizeOne]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

That, is a good idea!

I was thinking too, what about glassing the one side and across the top and letting it set up, then finish going down the other side? It may be a bit more tedious and time consuming, but I would think that you would have better control of the glass by essentially "anchoring" by bonding it to the stringer just before the point it would bend, and then finish the bend in the second round instead of trying to "force" the issue in one lay up?

I've made numerous suggustions to oops. He seems not to address or acknowledge any of them. But then, who am I that he should pay attention to.

In my description of glass applied to tacked resin, what I did not include is that you want to make sure that you wet the whole area and after tack, you firmly press your glass throughout the whole area. If you do not do this, the resin creeps out into the glass, that is flying in the wind, and can never more be pressed into contact with the surface you want it to adhere to.