Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration SPLASHED!

[farmer9009]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Well I am going to jump in here also with a foam idea. I was thinking of Opps's idea and understand that you don't want to go that way because you are looking for the foam to adhere as much as possible to the hull. But with some extra work one could use his idea along with some of the other ideas I have read. I think it may be possible to prep the area like Opps outlined and then just pour enough foam to make a small mold of the drainage system you desire. Then remove this piece of foam and additional construction material since it will not be adhered to the hull. finally put this piece back in with some PL to seal it up and pour the rest as normal. This way there is no extra construction material left to fail or cause problems down the road.
Thanks for all your documentation and advice. I just finished my transom last week and this site and your videos helped tremendously.
Best of wishes for your family.

 

[seamorewaterVIP]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Ok, onto more somber note. Someone asked me why you have not seen my Dad helping me on the boat this time, like you see in other project videos. I thought I had mentioned this before, but I will bring everyone up to date. Halloween of 2010 my mother was diagnosed with a dual form of Acute Leukemia and had to be hospitalized in an isolation ward for three months while undergoing treatment. In January she had her bone marrow transplant, and things were looking up. Then a few weeks ago she got "Graft VS Host Disease" or GVH, which from what I understand attacks the bowels and liver. They treat it with steroids that usually helps your body get over this. Well in my mothers case it has not helped at all, and her systems are trying to shut down. My Dad called me yesterday to inform me that we are trying a last ditch effort to try and clean her blood so her liver and kidneys can recover. I have spent the last 12 hours really preparing myself for the real possibility of having to say goodbye to my mother. I really thought that she was going to lick this with no problem. I never EVER thought I would face this. To me she is "ten foot tall and bulletproof".

My brother, sister, and I are VERY close with our mother, and she was one of those rare moms that never meddled in our business. She was always there to just listen, and offer advise ONLY if you asked for it. She is a strong Christian woman, and I know she will be in a better place. However, it still does not make things any easier, and I still hold on to the small chance things could turn around.

So that is the reason my father has not been around, and I miss that. We would have been done with this boat by now. Heck, we built a master bathroom and 6X6 roman shower with floor to ceiling tile in 10 weekends. All from a 64 year old executive! Not bad!

Keep us in your prayers and thoughts over the next few days.

dang jay! I was catching up on your thread and you had to go and make me cry!! I have three pages left hope there is some better news. I am Praying for you and yours during this time. Hope her condition continues to improve.

 

[seamorewaterVIP]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Thanks for all the thoughts and prayers guys, it really means a lot. She's actually improved a little bit today also. I just hope we can keep this peak in this roller coaster. It seems that every time were up, things go back down again. So please keep praying guys.

I didn't get a whole lot done about this weekend, but at least all the fillets are done, and I'm ready to start fiberglassing. The video doesn't go over a whole lot, but I do go over my foam plan in extensive detail. I even illustrated it for you.

Said to me what you think about my plan on the foam. I think it's pretty darn good idea, and it uses a little bit of everybody's ideas from here.

hey jay check out this link http://www.uline.com/BL_3653/Kraft-Tubes
they are in grand prarie and they have various cardboard tubes up to 48" in length that may work for the drainage issue. A little masking tape will make them longer.

 

[seamorewaterVIP]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Thinking about it, there is a much easier solution, dont use cardboard, buy a roll of that black garden hose thats made out of tires and designed to slowly leak when you turn the water on, just lay that down and run the end right through the hole, technically it should work in revers and allow the water to pass through and out. The material wont break off or turn to mush and no worry of clogging all that hard work.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

I dont think there will be 25 to 60 lbs of pressure on the hose to make it "leak" either! thats a way to think outside the box though!

 

[seamorewaterVIP]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

I thought about the PVC too, but the last thing you want to is have PVC pipes vibrating in the floor when Jay hits the throttle on that 454. It might sound like those dorks who put big bass speakers in the trunk of their Dodge Neon and all you hear is the freakin' license plate rattling (argh). Oh wait, maybe we only have those folks in New Mexico.

nope we have them in texas too!

 

[Decker83]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Jay,
I have been following your thread and I really don't want to sound "Dumb" here, but I don't understand the concept of the chanels in the foam. I have seen some really good ideals about how to do it from alot of people in your thread. It seems like you want to have the foam cover all the surface under your deck. If I understand this right the foam will rize and cure and will stick to all of the surface it touches. This should create seal between the foam and the hull and stringers. Any foam that does not touch the underside of the sole will seal itself off. The parts that do will seal to the underside of the sole. I understand that you anticipate the water will somehow get under the sole at some point. With the foam being sealed (closed cell) how will the water find its way to the chanel that you are making.
In my boat the foam is at least 2' thick. It comes out from both sides of the boat about 2 and 1/2 feet. There is a full 3 feet with no foam. This area runs from bow to stern. The foam is waterlogged about a 1/2" on the bottom. The rest of the foam is wet enough that you can squeeze water out it.
With all this said, the water in my boat will not drain out of the foam. And the water has clearly did its damage to the untreaded wood.
So how do the chanels work. How do you anticipate the water will get there before the foam soaks it all up and holds it in.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

I would like to make a comment here if I may. If your foam is waterlogged then evidently it is NOT Closed cell foam. Closed Cell foam inherently does NOT absorb water. There is no Way to 100% seal the under deck area of a boat. There will always be some voids. IF water does manage to get below the sole, it could flow between the sides of the hull and the foam and find its way to the bottom of the hull thus the perceived need for the channels. Nevertheless the closed cell foam will NOT absorb the water and the channels will allow the water,if any, to flow to bilge area for drainage. That's the theory IMHO. Jay May have more to add.

 

[superpop]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

What about pool noodles, some have a hole in the middle and you could split one of these into quarters and have a built in weep channel. Would be easy to glue in and would probably bond good with the foam. And I don't think those noodles absorb water as I believe they are closed cell. Would give you a drain channel, be lightweight and you would not have to worry about cardboard rotting or clogging your drains.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Would hit the nail on the head, as there is no way to 100% seal underneath the deck. That is why I want to make sure that if water gets down there, it has a way out.

Superpop- I was kind of thinking of using pool noodles also, but I wanted to make sure water can get in all along the channel. That way when it gets to my weep holes, it flows out. The pool noodles being close cell might stop the water from reaching the channels. It would be so awesome if you had something that would be easily removable when she poured the foam, and left a neat little channel. That is why I was thinking of using sacrificial cardboard.

Now that I think about it, the only reason why I want anything in the corner between the Stringer in the hull, is to stop the trapping of water. So maybe the half PVC trick might be a good idea after all. I don't know I'm just rambling here.

 

[boaterinsd]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

OK, heres a good one , as you can see the hull outer layer is lower that the bildge in the back of the engine area. What do i do?

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

That is most likely a false floor. I would remove it.

 

[boaterinsd]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

What about pool noodles, some have a hole in the middle and you could split one of these into quarters and have a built in weep channel. Would be easy to glue in and would probably bond good with the foam. And I don't think those noodles absorb water as I believe they are closed cell. Would give you a drain channel, be lightweight and you would not have to worry about cardboard rotting or clogging your drains.

I am thinking I mentioned this a few days ago. Its got to be the answer if more that one is getting the thought.

 

[boaterinsd]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

what is exactly? can you explain it?

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

The bilge floor is just a piece of ply across the underside of the engine. I would remove that and make the hull the bottom of your bilge. I have not ever seen what you have.

 

[Decker83]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Jay,
Sorry to ask these questions in your thread. I thougt the manufacture would use "closed cell" foam. So I guess all of this foam in mine is pure junk. It would never float this boat as wet as it is. What a total waste of foam. Not to mention all the time and work I have ahead of me to take it all out. I seems like a lot of boats have the same type of foam as mine. I see alot of people taking out wet foam.
THANKS Woodonglass for your explanation about the foam. It all makes good sense now.
What type of foam do you recomend I use to replace in mine. Would you use this much foam to replace the old foam. I must have close to 100+ cubic feet.
Thanks Jay and Woodonglass.

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Jay did you ever talk with bob (bobsglassstream)? He worked in the foam industry, some kind of foam injection equipment I think for making molds. I haven't seen him around in a while, but I talked with him quite a bit about the foam. He actually made his "removable", pouring it into each compartment after lining it with plastic. I'm not sure what his logic was on that. He spent quite a bit of time experimenting with soaking the closed cell foam in water. He found out that if the foam was poured and the "skin" on the outside was not ruptured, that it wouldn't absorb water. But if the skin was ruptured (ground down, sanded on cut etc.) that the foam would absorb water. Apparently the solution was to put resin or some other material over any ruptured spots. I have never ran any experiments on it, but being an engineer (and from his work on the boat) I'm sure he was fairly meticulous. If I recall correctly, he evaluated the foam by weighing it.

 

[jayboy73]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Just had an idea Jay. They make a long drill for drilling down through plates to pull wiring down through walls. I think they are at least 1/2 " or 3/4" diameter. I have seen them at HD and they are 3 to 4' long. I have one in my shop but it was dull when I got it. I guess it would cut right through the foam. I am getting ready to go work on the boat now so will get it out and try it and let you know. You could cut the shank down to size as you go into shorter runs.

Had a question on your foaming technique. Will you put the deck down permantly first or use a temporay deck to contain the foam then pull it off to check for voids. Look like the latter would be a good idea because my factory foam had all kind of voids on bottom, top and sides against the stringers. If the latter approach is preferred I have some big, really big plastic bags that are heavy guage that might be good to tape to the temporary molding deck ply. I can stand up inside the bags with my hands above me and they touch the floor and must be at least 4 feet wide. I have 3 rolls left over from my fiberglass furniture days. The plastic is as slick as snot.

 

[mnlaker]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Jay- many good ideas for you to think over. I like the "swim noodle" idea by other, if it works. My idea was similar to the noodle design, but make your own "noodle" out of the same foam you will be using. Use small pvc pipe (2") centered inside a larger pvc pipe (4-6")(standing on edge), & pour foam in between the pipes & set. Use pvc pipe long enough for sections to be covered (4-5'). Might need to use a mold release agent though on pvc pipe? Then can cut a "pie-shaped" section (lengthwise thru noodle) based on the hull-stringer angle needed. Could PL this in place & pour new batch of foam over it. I have never done foam work before, so sorry if idea this is too far out!
Just spitballing idea out to you. Thanks for all your videos.

 

[Lou C]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

I've got a few ideas on this, for one thing my boat had a lot of rot, but the foam was dry all the way down to the last 1/8 in on the hull, and even there, not much water. I feel the moisture came from the deck down, and the stringers rotted because FW didn't even glass them all the way up. None of the holes in the deck were bedded and the deck was fastened down with a bunch of nasty staples. So here's my ideas to allow you to use foam, since it could save your life one day:
1) coat your finished stringers and bulkheads with a coat of epoxy resin, which will stick fine to polyester and is reputed to be close to water proof. OR,
2) coat the finished stringers, etc with an epoxy barrier coat. Barrier coats are used on hulls that are left in the water, to prevent water from getting in the fiberglass laminate through the somewhat porous gelcoat and causing osmotic blisters. People sometimes will get the boat barrier coated first, then bottom painted, to avoid blisters. If can do that, then it should be able to keep moisture out of your wood stringers....

so that way you can seal it up, and foam it and quit thinking about all this.

Any kind of a drain system will necessitate limber holes in the stringers to allow the water to migrate to the lowest point in the bilge, I just don't see that working well and I'd rather seal up the laminate as best as can be done, I think it's a more practical and effective approach....

 

[boaterinsd]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

OK, i Am on a NEW thought. A year ago i spent a few years in the wind-blade building field. They are building then out of balsa wood, on the 40 M. blade. I was told it was done to reduce weight opposed to a foam cored blade. Now they use it between glass and its vacuum bagged and infused with resin.
Now if you were to seal the hull then fill the voids with balsa, and seal up the top you would have the solid for the hull support and the flotation.
I dont hvae weight by the 2 products , but am sure it could be found out.