Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration SPLASHED!

[kpiazzisi]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

I am going to look into that filler neck for sure. Thanks for the great ideas.

I had another idea today and I wanted to run it by everyone. When I rebuilt my shower I used a product called redguard to waterproof the shower. Redguard is an elastomeric membrane that you brush on and it dries hard as nails, but stays flexible. My thought was to slather this stuff on all the stringers and hull after I do all the glassing, but before I pour in the foam. I think that just might give me the real protection against cracks letting water sit on the stringers. According to the technical sheet it will bond perfectly, and it is rated for outdoor use.

Thoughts?

Nice job on the boat. I am currently doing a restoration on a Regal ski boat where I am using composite material. Not sure how Red Guard would work (never used it before) but I know that epoxy resin it highy reputable for waterproofing and can be applied over wood or polyester laminate.

Has anyone figured out how water get's under the deck to begin with? The only two open compartments are the bildge area and the ski locker....correct. In theory water should not be able to get into these other below deck compartments, but we all know it does. I removed several extra pounds of water soaked foam in compartments that were sealed compartments under the deck. I have heard that the water can seep though any screws into the compartments and therefore anything screwed into the deck should be sealed with 3M 5200. I also believe that in an old ski boat the carpet gets soaked, the polyester resin over the plywood gets cracked and water then eventually finds it's way in.

Does anyone have anymore to add on this subject or can you point me to another thread that explains this problem. I don't have any wood that can rot, but I do have flotation foam that I'd like to keep dry.

thank you

 

[ddiggerr]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Afternoon,

Been following every step of the way and I have a quick question. Where did you locate 1708? This stuff seems to be a rare item, or I am just looking in the wrong spots for it.

Thanks

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Frisco,

I came across these descriptions for the various fiberglass materials and so I decided to create a bit of a visual for those of us attempting to get our heads around the various types of fiberglass and their uses:


-TVB

Man that is the best rundown I have ever seen. Thanks for posting it.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Jay,

Everything is looking great. I have the same problem with the vent line on my boat as well, and I was going to look at the dual filler neck as well. Also, thanks for all of the time that you are taking away from working on your boat making the videos and documenting your work. I wish we could get some of that rain that you had. I finally broke down last week and started watering my yard. It is DRY here in the Houston area. Thanks, Steven

The rain is a HUGE blessing. I was at Cedar Creek lake installing a sound system for a client. I could walk under his boat, that is hanging in his boat house, on dry land. I a glad to make the videos for you guys. I just hope I am not skimming over things too much. I am so ADD when I am talking my mind tends to get way ahead of itself and I forget what I was going to say.

If it will work in a shower in your house that you use everyday......than I think it would be great to protect the work you have done in your boat!!! That product is designed to protect wood from water damage...........sounds like a great bit of added insurance to me!!

Keep the updates coming!!! You make my week!!!

Nice job on the boat. I am currently doing a restoration on a Regal ski boat where I am using composite material. Not sure how Red Guard would work (never used it before) but I know that epoxy resin it highy reputable for waterproofing and can be applied over wood or polyester laminate.

Has anyone figured out how water get's under the deck to begin with? The only two open compartments are the bildge area and the ski locker....correct. In theory water should not be able to get into these other below deck compartments, but we all know it does. I removed several extra pounds of water soaked foam in compartments that were sealed compartments under the deck. I have heard that the water can seep though any screws into the compartments and therefore anything screwed into the deck should be sealed with 3M 5200. I also believe that in an old ski boat the carpet gets soaked, the polyester resin over the plywood gets cracked and water then eventually finds it's way in.

Does anyone have anymore to add on this subject or can you point me to another thread that explains this problem. I don't have any wood that can rot, but I do have flotation foam that I'd like to keep dry.

thank you

The cracking is exactly how it happens. Plus it is just bad practices when building. The nice thing about red guard is that is flexes, and just might keep this from happening.

Afternoon,

Been following every step of the way and I have a quick question. Where did you locate 1708? This stuff seems to be a rare item, or I am just looking in the wrong spots for it.

Thanks

I had a local shop order it for me. It is called stitch mat and there are several different thicknesses.

 

[boaterinsd]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Frisco,

I came across these descriptions for the various fiberglass materials and so I decided to create a bit of a visual for those of us attempting to get our heads around the various types of fiberglass and their uses:

1) Chopped Strand Mat (CSM) - Short glass strands laid down in a random pattern and held together by a resin-soluble binder. Easily wet out and able to conform to almost any shape, CSM is used as the base layer for many laminates. It is also the most watertight and adhesive of the glass materials. CSM is sold in various widths and lengths. The most common weights are .75 oz., 1.5 oz., and 2 ounces per square foot. Note: Do not use with epoxy.
View attachment 91213

2) Woven Roving - Coarse plain weave material made of large flat bundles of glass fibers called rovings. WR is woven in 0-90 degrees; the highest strength is in these directions. Woven roving does not bond well to other layers. It?s best to use alternate layers of CSM as a binder. In fact, most all boats larger than about 20? are built with alternating layers of mat and roving. Woven roving is sold in various lengths and widths; the usual weights are 18 and 24 ounces per square yard.
View attachment 91216

3) Cloth - Cloths of various weaves have exceptionally high tensile strength but provide little rigidity. Cloths come in many widths, and also in tapes which are selvedged on both sides to prevent unraveling. Cloths come in various weights from .25 oz. to 10 oz. per square yard.
View attachment 91214

4) Dual Bias Mat/Roving (1708 is an example) - This is a specialty material composed of a lightweight mat,usually .5 oz., and two layers of rovings at + and ? 45 degrees, all stitched together. This material reduces lay-up time, conforms better than woven roving, and can be used with any resin system since the fibers are stitched together. It also provides a more efficient use of resin than woven roving as the fabric design avoids the ?lace pattern? characteristic of the woven material.
View attachment 91215

Interestingly, most materials will NOT allow a resin to attach to them. The resin will encapsulate the material but not actually touch it. Various chemicals, called sizings, are applied to the fibers to allow the resin to bond directly (Generally organo-silane chemistry compatible with polyester, vinylester and epoxy resin systems).

Note: Never allow the materials to become wet; resins will not bond to wet fibers and water will dissolve and wash away chemicals used in finishes.

Fillers:

1) Thickening Agents - You might know it as Fumed Silica, or by its trade names, "Aerosilor" or "Cabosil". These are used to thicken the mix and add thixotropic properties. In layman's terms, this gives the mixture ?hang? on a vertical surface.

2) Bulking Agents - These reduce the density of the putty and make it easy to sand. They include glass microspheres, phenolic microspheres, and wood flour. Glass microspheres are microscopically small hollow glass and phenolic (resin) spheres which add light-weight bulk to the mix. Wood Flour is essentially fine sawdust which is just another type of thickener.

3) Structural Agents - These are comonly referred to as milled fibers, which are basically ground up chop strand mat (CSM) and come in a variety of sizes.

Hopefully this brief rundown will help somebody who's trying to wrap their arms around the fiberglass lingo that is so important to understand when doing restoration projects such as these!

-TVB

do you know what prices are on this stuff?

 

[kpiazzisi]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

1708 - The 1708 is not always stocked because most people that use the biax tend to use epoxy resin and with epoxy resin the Mat portion of the 1708 is not required. CSM/mat holds a lot more resin then the other types of fiberglass. I believe by weight CSM is 70% resin and 30% fiberglass fabric (don't quote me on this). Straight Biax such as 1700 on the other hand is just the oppisite where the majority of the weight is in the fabric itself because biax by design does not trap much resin (not weaved & therefore thin). If you are putting two layers of biax together with a weaker glue (polyester resin) the csm is required because more of the weaker glue is required to bond the layers. The epoxy on the other hand is so strong that the amount in the biax layers themselves is enough to bond them together. 1708 is basically for someone who is using a hi tech fabric with a low tech resin and usually this doesn't happen very often.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Please lets not turn this into a resin debate. There are pros and cons to both, and I do not want to get into this here.

I talked to the Redguard people today and they gave me the green light on using it to waterproof the stringers and bulkheads. They said it would be the perfect product for this.

 

[kpiazzisi]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

I am not the one who brought up all the differennt types of fabrics. I was just trying to be helpful and give some more factual information, but whatever.....I'll go away.

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Looking good Jay, I bet you end up using 30 gallons of resin! It's amazing how much of that stuff you go through. I'm with you on the foaming the hull, it sure makes for a tighter hull. Some of the spray foams in houses are closed cell products, but I'm not sure what density they are. I think the stuff I got from Areomarine was 4#. Keep up the good work!

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

I am not the one who brought up all the differennt types of fabrics. I was just trying to be helpful and give some more factual information, but whatever.....I'll go away.

No worries man. I was just trying to nip it in the bud. Someone could have taken it and started a whole epoxy VS poly debate. I completely see your point and it is right on.

 

[Decker83]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Hey Jay.
Looking forward to seeing how you decide to glass the stringers in. Really enjoyed the last two vid's on youtube.
How big did you make the fillets. They look to be a 1" to 1.5" radius.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

They are pretty big. I found a large metal serving spoon at Kroger that worked well.

 

[clockwatcher]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

I am going to look into that filler neck for sure. Thanks for the great ideas.

I had another idea today and I wanted to run it by everyone. When I rebuilt my shower I used a product called redguard to waterproof the shower. Redguard is an elastomeric membrane that you brush on and it dries hard as nails, but stays flexible. My thought was to slather this stuff on all the stringers and hull after I do all the glassing, but before I pour in the foam. I think that just might give me the real protection against cracks letting water sit on the stringers. According to the technical sheet it will bond perfectly, and it is rated for outdoor use.

Thoughts?

Is it compatable with a poly substrate? If so, use it. Garage floor paint would probably work too. I think some of that paint is poly based. But I'm no painter.

 

[Tahoe202]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Is it monday yet... Jay, I find myself excited to see your progress every week.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Is it compatable with a poly substrate? If so, use it. Garage floor paint would probably work too. I think some of that paint is poly based. But I'm no painter.

According to them, it sticks to almost anything.

 

[AMD Rules]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

We'll never know if the RedGard worked... I think you're boat is going to last another 50+ years regardless of whether you use it or not. I check this thread a thousand times each Sunday anxiously awaiting your next video installments.

In my opinion the best DIY boat restoration videos available. Period.

Can't wait to see launch day, but I wish you had an endless supply of hulls to keep working on so we can all learn together.

If I win the lottery I'm coming to get your Glastron and go for a ride on your Sea Ray!

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

We'll never know if the RedGard worked... I think you're boat is going to last another 50+ years regardless of whether you use it or not. I check this thread a thousand times each Sunday anxiously awaiting your next video installments.

In my opinion the best DIY boat restoration videos available. Period.

Can't wait to see launch day, but I wish you had an endless supply of hulls to keep working on so we can all learn together.

If I win the lottery I'm coming to get your Glastron and go for a ride on your Sea Ray!

You guys crack me up with the videos. I really think they could be better. I feel like i am just rambling on and one about what has been done, but forget to go over the steps.

The really coal thing is that youtube selected me as a partner, and is now putting some links on my videos. When ever those links get clicked I get a little bit of cash. It is really adding up quick, and if I make enough money, I can do more restorations and how too videos.

 

[produceguy]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Sweet!!!

 

[clockwatcher]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Well! Let's all do some clicking!!! It could be Jay's summer time "running a big block with $4 a gallon gas" fund.

By the way, I enjoyed the background music in one of the last videos. I don't know if it was intended, but it was a nice touch. It reminded me of my garage on the weekends.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Re: Here I go again!! 1995 Sea Ray 220 Signature Deck and Stringer Restoration

Well! Let's all do some clicking!!! It could be Jay's summer time "running a big block with $4 a gallon gas" fund.

By the way, I enjoyed the background music in one of the last videos. I don't know if it was intended, but it was a nice touch. It reminded me of my garage on the weekends.

I have music piped throughout the house. After all that is what I do for a living. I just happened to be testing out the streaming pandora app though a new ipod interface.

Ok, onto more somber note. Someone asked me why you have not seen my Dad helping me on the boat this time, like you see in other project videos. I thought I had mentioned this before, but I will bring everyone up to date. Halloween of 2010 my mother was diagnosed with a dual form of Acute Leukemia and had to be hospitalized in an isolation ward for three months while undergoing treatment. In January she had her bone marrow transplant, and things were looking up. Then a few weeks ago she got "Graft VS Host Disease" or GVH, which from what I understand attacks the bowels and liver. They treat it with steroids that usually helps your body get over this. Well in my mothers case it has not helped at all, and her systems are trying to shut down. My Dad called me yesterday to inform me that we are trying a last ditch effort to try and clean her blood so her liver and kidneys can recover. I have spent the last 12 hours really preparing myself for the real possibility of having to say goodbye to my mother. I really thought that she was going to lick this with no problem. I never EVER thought I would face this. To me she is "ten foot tall and bulletproof".

My brother, sister, and I are VERY close with our mother, and she was one of those rare moms that never meddled in our business. She was always there to just listen, and offer advise ONLY if you asked for it. She is a strong Christian woman, and I know she will be in a better place. However, it still does not make things any easier, and I still hold on to the small chance things could turn around.

So that is the reason my father has not been around, and I miss that. We would have been done with this boat by now. Heck, we built a master bathroom and 6X6 roman shower with floor to ceiling tile in 10 weekends. All from a 64 year old executive! Not bad!

Keep us in your prayers and thoughts over the next few days.