Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

bigdirty

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

..I if i remember correctly you have 15 minutes mix time it does not explode once poured..

:rolleyes: no, it does not explode when poured, unless you put it in a sealed container smaller than what volume its going to expand to. Filling the tank with water I just have to disagree with though, just fill it with fuel and forgo any water in the fuel system issues this summer :lol:
 

tpenfield

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Every person has a opinion... having been there done that here's one. Calculate the area and figure out the expansion rate that should give you the volume you need. Heat the surruonding surfaces to 80 degree's a hair dryer or heat gun will do well. Do one controlled massive mix and pour and fill the tank with water to prevent deformation. I if i remember correctly you have 15 minutes mix time it does not explode once poured

One massive pour will allow the foam in a liquid state to settle..the proper heat will allow it to expand at the rate it was intended to...make sure of your volume and allow for expansion escape..Then stand back and watch it expand form your vent's...going that way with 9lb foam i have a floor that feel's like its concrete.

Actually more like 15-30 seconds of mixing time, then it starts to expand. Expanding lasts for about 5 minutes.

Here is the info from the US Composites web site. . .
-----------------------------------------------------------------
[SIZE=+1]Urethane Pour Foam Overview[/SIZE]


  • [SIZE=-1]This two-part liquid, expanding rigid urethane foam is a closed cell, pourable foam, which will resist the absorption of water.[/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=-1]The densities shown refer to the weight per cubic foot of expanded foam (12" x 12" x 12").[/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=-1]Once fully cured this foam can be laminated over with any type of polyester, epoxy or vinyl ester resin without melting.[/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=-1]This product can be poured in multiple layers with excellent bonding between layers. [/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=-1]All expansion rates and times given are temperature critical. Temperatures below 75 degrees F will lower the expansion rate therefore requiring more foam. Ideal working temperature is 75 to 80 degrees F or above.[/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=-1]Accurate measuring of these products is extremely critical.[/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=-1]Working time before foaming: approx. 45 seconds[/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=-1]Time before full expansion: approx. 5 minutes[/SIZE]
  • [SIZE=-1]The lightweight foam is commonly used for filling voids, filling under decks and practically any other flotation or insulation application. Higher densities are used for architectural castings, support applications and has virtually an unlimited number of potential uses.[/SIZE]
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Basically, the chemical reaction starts quickly and lasts for about 5 minutes. Higher temps yield higher expansion. . . not sure how much expansion you loose as the temps are lower. I am using the 4 lb/cubic foot density variety and I have a 20 cubic foot kit. I have calculated the volume to surround the bottom and sides of the tank to be approx. 12 cubic feet and the volume needed to fill the storage compartment floor around 1.5 (1-1/2) cubic feet.

I am guesstimating that the reduced temperatures may yield about 80-90% of the spec'd expansion rate, so, my 20 Cu. ft. kit may yield only 17 +/- cubic feet of foam . . . Still enough and should have some extra in case any particular area comes up shy, I can do a second pour. As long as it expands partially up along the sides of the tank, I am good for a second pour.

I am contemplating whether to pre-heat the liquid or to heat the areas in the boat (or both) so that the temps involved come closer to the spec'd range. On Cape Cod, we probably won't see 70-75 degree F temps until mid-June :rolleyes:

EDIT - actually, I just found some additional info in the FAQ's on the expansion rate of the foam as the temps are lower . . .
---------------------------------------------------------------
[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]9. Can I use the foam outdoors?[/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][SIZE=-1]Yes. Our expansion rate of the foam is based on temperatures of 80 degrees F at moderate humidity. When using this foam in temperatures below 80 F you will see a reduction in expansion. At 50 degrees F you would probably only get half the normal expansion. For using the product during winter months it is ideal to work in a heated garage/shop in which you can get the product temperature and air temperature up to about 80 F.[/SIZE][/SIZE]
---------------------------------------------------------------
So, maybe I would be best to heat everything up a bit . . .
 
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Tail_Gunner

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

:confused: double post sorry about that
 
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JASinIL2006

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

I poured mine at the lower end of the acceptable temp range; I even constructed a heated tent over the boat and blew warm air below decks to make sure the compartment to be foamed was warm enough. While I may not have got the full expansion of the foam, I can tell you it did, in fact, kick off in 15-30 seconds (or less). Much of the time I felt I barely was able to get the two parts mixed before it started foaming.

I did store the two parts indoors and they were fairly warm, so I don't know how much them temp of the mixture would affect the working time.
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

:D Yes seconds...there is a difference is there not..The only thing tough about that method is multiple vents to pour in i had 8 in one floor cavity two person job. Gets a bit messy but a angle grinder with 60 grit paper cleans the excess foam like its butter on a table. Placing a heat gun in the pour cavities will work very well.

Picture029.jpg
 
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Tail_Gunner

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

:rolleyes: no, it does not explode when poured, unless you put it in a sealed container smaller than what volume its going to expand to. Filling the tank with water I just have to disagree with though, just fill it with fuel and forgo any water in the fuel system issues this summer :lol:

I know that sounds funny to fill a tank with water but i forgot to mention a few thing's, that foam he's using expands with quite a bit of force enough force to lift two men standing on a deck. You also need to seal the tank some heavy rubber and a few clamps do quite well around the mouth or neck....one would not want gas blowing out if the seal failed..after a draining the tank it only takes a few days for the rest to evaporate.
 

Scott Danforth

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

or make a cradle over the top of the tank to hold it down
 

Tail_Gunner

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

or make a cradle over the top of the tank to hold it down

When he does the pour and its cured it will become part of the boat, i have used the same foam he is using it adhere's as well as any two part glue you will find. Frankly once in that tank will be permanent...think not do a little test.. foam some plywood together and try to separate them.
 

Scott Danforth

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

I was thinking for his initial pour on the bottom and sides. it can be removed for the subsequent pours.

I understand the bonding power of the foam. it helps to hold PVC tubes in place in the gunwales for routing wiring and cables.
 

tpenfield

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

I am very glad we are having this discussion about the foam prior to my attempting it. I was a bit shocked to read on the supplier's web site that the expansion may only be 50% of specifications at 50 degrees F in temperature. That would turn my 20 cubic foot kit into a 10 cubic foot kit and make it a fail. :eek: If it were to be 60 degrees (hopefully) then the yield might be more in the 13-14 cubic foot range ( barely enough ) So, the input and dialog have been helpful to me in thinking this through :thumb:

Urethane foam is a wicked good adhesive . . . I use it often in sticking stuff together. So, it should 'stick' the tank to the boat quite well. The tank is strapped down, so it will not move . . . the foam will expand around it. Also, note that this is not a confined chamber that is being filled, unlike many of the fills that we see on this forum. The foam will be free to expand up over the the sides/top of the tank and then the excess will be cut off after curing, as per USCG regs with this sort of tank. So there will be little 'pressure' on the tank during the process.

Interesting to note though . . . the tank is built like a 'tank', having 3 internal bulkheads along its length and a centerline bulkhead, giving it 8 internal 'chambers' and the associated structural support. I guess it has to be like that to support 1100 lbs of fuel in a wave crashing scenario.

So, my easiest route (I think) is to pre-heat the liquids to 80 degrees or more and see if I can get enough heat in the boat so that the materials are fairly warm during the several minutes of critical expansion time.

Otherwise, I may end up short of foam . . .
 
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Tail_Gunner

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Well you have a clean area to work with no gas that is so take a simple space heater...cover the area with a tarp and a few hours later that tank and supporting structure will be toasty.
 

tpenfield

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Well you have a clean area to work with no gas that is so take a simple space heater...cover the area with a tarp and a few hours later that tank and supporting structure will be toasty.

Yup, I have a space heater that I can face into the opening in the main bulkhead and then place a small tarp over the rest of the fuel bay. Should be nice and toasty. I figure the aluminum of the fuel tank will hold heat for a while as I set up and pour the foam.
 

tpenfield

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Looks like the weather is somewhat cooperating for foaming in the tank today. As discussed, things need to be warm for a good expansion of foam.

Currently 61 degrees F and going to get up towards the high 60's today. I have the 2 pails of urethane foam ( parts A & B) stacked on top of the oil burner (home heater) since last night. The heater room is toasty warm (85 ish).

So, I should be able to keep things warm and the boat itself did not cool down much over night . . . :)
 

GT1000000

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Excited to see how it all works out...
Best of Luck!
 

alldodge

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Looking forward to process
 

tpenfield

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Looking forward to process

Me too . . . I went into town this morning to get a few supplies, among them mixing containers for the foam. A few weeks ago the stores had plenty . . . not today :facepalm:

I didn't really have time to go hunting some down. So, I scrubbed the foaming 'mission' for today and focused on the outdrives.
 

tpenfield

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Well, on Thursday, I am heading west with the family to California for a long weekend to attend my kid's college graduation. So, it will be Memorial Day weekend before I get back to working on the boat.

The weather/temperature issues should have improved by then ( I can hope ) so the foaming process should be a bit more straight forward. I will still pre-heat the liquids to about 85 degrees. If the daytime temps are more in the 70 F range, I should be able to avoid heating the fuel tank bay.

The outdrive work that I am doing is taking more time than I had figured . . . First time tearing into an outdrive, so probably to be expected . . . Looks like my schedule puts me out into mid-June, maybe launching 3rd week of June.
 

jbcurt00

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Congrats on having 1 graduating & a trip to California.

Warmer air temps will certainly help make the foaming more uniform & expand more fully.
 

alldodge

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

The outdrive work that I am doing is taking more time than I had figured . . . First time tearing into an outdrive, so probably to be expected . . . Looks like my schedule puts me out into mid-June, maybe launching 3rd week of June.

Don't I know it, :rolleyes: Every time I thought I had it there was something else. Hope yours works out smoother
 

tpenfield

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Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Congrats on having 1 graduating & a trip to California.

Warmer air temps will certainly help make the foaming more uniform & expand more fully.

Thanks . . . Probably won't be much time to actually do anything in CA except attend the formalities and pack the kid up to head back to the east coast. Gotta ship the car back too.
 
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