Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

[jbcurt00]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Currently heading north with the FIL's prize possession (his dog). We are driving through the Richmond, VA area as I type.

Did his dog do it's share of the driving? Since I think texting & driving is still illegal in Virginia

My FIL would probably knock my MIL & my wife down running past them in a burning house to get to his dog :facepalm:

Travel safe. Hooter's, yep, I go for the wings too :watermelon:

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Safely back in Massachusetts . . . Now packages arriving on a daily basis with all the supplies that I ordered this past weekend while on the road. The Admiral is asking how much more money am I gonna spend on the boat :noidea:

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Don't tell her..... my fear is when I pass, the admiral will sell my stuff for what I told her I paid.......

 

[alldodge]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

I have a great admiral, she clips coupons and I spend thousands. She's OK with it so long as we spend a lot of time on the water

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Yea, the Admiral checks the credit card accounts on a daily basis to head off any fraud, etc. She usually asks how much I think the boat stuff will cost for the season . . . I tell her . . . she thinks I'm joking

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

More 'stuff' is arriving each day . . . thanks to the UPS and FedEx folks.

I got my neoprene for isolating the fuel tank from the hull in preparation for foaming in the tank. I also got some biaxial fiberglass tape for bonding the cockpit sole to the stringer grid.



I hope to do the stringer bonding on Saturday morning and then I got a buddy coming over to help with the tank installation in the afternoon. He has a SeaRay 270. So, I help him out with some of the maintenance, etc.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Fuel tank installation Update . . .

Today was the day to put the fuel tank back into the boat. First I did some final fiberglass work by bonding the cockpit sole to the stringer grid. There seemed to be 4 places where I could fairly easily bond the 2 major pieces of the boat together . . . a fairly long run along the starboard main stringer, across the main bulkhead from the port side and a couple of places along the port stringer.

Here are a few pics of the biaxial cloth wetted out . . .

Starboard stringer bond . . .


Bulkhead bond . . .


Then I prepped the fuel bay for the tank. Here are the neoprene pads. I used 6" long pads rather than continuous strips to provide some ability for air and the foam material to move between the hull ribs during the foaming process.


Then it was a matter of lifting the 200+ lb tank up an over the rear seat and over the fuel tank bay. I used the tarp frame to act as a hoist for the tank. My buddy came over to assist . . . Here is the tank being lowered into the fuel bay.


Here is the tank almost fully lowered into the fuel bay . . .


Once the tank was lowered and set into place along the rear cross member, the straps were fastened.


So, all-in-all a good day putting things back together. Tomorrow is going to be a bit colder and slightly damp. so I may wait until next weekend to do the foaming of the tank.

Tomorrow, I plan on addressing another improvement that I wanted to make (in addition to the stringer grid bonding) and that is to add more flotation to the hull. There are some fairly large spaces in the hull where I can add some rigid foam to give more flotation to the boat. My goal is to put enough flotation to the boat that it becomes 'positive' flotation. Currently, it is slightly 'negative flotation, based on my estimates and calculations.

TTFN.

 

[bigdirty]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Lookin good man... kinda funny, you put yours back in today... i thrashed and ripped mine apart and took the tank OUT... doh... :lol:

 

[bvetter]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Oh man, that IS tight space for getting the foam under the tank. Have you figured out how you're you're gonna tackle it?

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Oh man, that IS tight space for getting the foam under the tank. Have you figured out how you're you're gonna tackle it?

Yes, fairly tight . . . about 4" along the sides and then about 2" along the "V" of the hull in between the ribs. Having considered all of the input from forum members, I think that I will stay fairly low-tech with the foaming technique.

My plan is to make numerous 'pours' of the foam liquid at the points along the tank where it should readily flow in between the ribs and right to the keel. I have marked the sides of the fuel bay in between each of the ribs, so I know where to pour the liquid. (you can sort of see the black spray paint marks in the picture of the tank strapped down).

There will be approximately 14 'pours' of small amounts of foam liquid - 6 along each side . . a fairly large pour at the stern end, and a smaller one at the bow end of the tank. I figure that if I have the liquid all pre-measured in mixing cups, then I can mix and pour in fairly rapid fashion. I'll do about 15 seconds of mixing and then pour for 5 seconds and leave the mixing cup inverted semi-stuffed down the side of the tank. It should take about 10-15 minutes to do the actual mixing and pouring.

So, that's the plan . . . we'll see how it goes

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

. . . of course, now that I am thinking about the foaming process, 14 'pours' of foam seems a little excessive. Perhaps I can knock it down to 6-8 . Logistics would be easier, with all those mixing cups.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

I am pretty sure that as long as you can get the foam poured under the tank while it is still liquid, it must go to the lowest parts by force of gravity...Being that the space it needs to fill is rather shallow, it should expand just fine under the tank and if you poured enough, it should begin to show itself along the sides...which would indicate you got good filling under the tank...
To help make it a good solid pour under the tank, try to get an assistant...as soon as you mix the first batch and begin pouring, have the assistant mix and hand you the next batch...pour them all along the sides, front to back and if possible from both sides...1/2 one side, 1/2 the other and do that until you pour all the batches you calculated it would take to fill the bottom of the tank...wait for the expansion...if all went well you should get a solid rise around all the sides of the tank which would theoretically indicate that the entire underside of the tank is solidly foamed...then just finish up to the top...
Just a note, if you don't want any foam to stick ANYWHERE, make sure you protect those areas with some form of masking, either paper or plastic...
Good Luck!

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

I don't think 14 pours of foam (rather than 6-8) is excessive if it helps you do an adequate job of filling the cavities. That stuff has such a short time before it stops flowing and starts building in volume... after working with that stuff for an afternoon, using an extra dozen mixing cups didn't seem like a very big deal. It's not impossible to clean and re-use a mixing cup, but it's easier to use a fresh cup each time. You might have more 'pour holes' to fix in the deck, but even those aren't bad to fix.

The best advice is to cover EVERYTHING that don't want to get foam on it. That stuff is sticky and it gets everywhere.

Good luck!

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

I don't think 14 pours of foam (rather than 6-8) is excessive if it helps you do an adequate job of filling the cavities. That stuff has such a short time before it stops flowing and starts building in volume... after working with that stuff for an afternoon, using an extra dozen mixing cups didn't seem like a very big deal. It's not impossible to clean and re-use a mixing cup, but it's easier to use a fresh cup each time. You might have more 'pour holes' to fix in the deck, but even those aren't bad to fix.

The best advice is to cover EVERYTHING that don't want to get foam on it. That stuff is sticky and it gets everywhere.

Good luck!

No deck involved . . . just the fuel tank around the sides, so it flows underneath to the keel. I do have a small area of 'deck' in the storage compartment that also needs to be foamed, but that should be pretty straight forward versus the fuel tank.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

I am pretty sure that as long as you can get the foam poured under the tank while it is still liquid, it must go to the lowest parts by force of gravity...Being that the space it needs to fill is rather shallow, it should expand just fine under the tank and if you poured enough, it should begin to show itself along the sides...which would indicate you got good filling under the tank...
To help make it a good solid pour under the tank, try to get an assistant...as soon as you mix the first batch and begin pouring, have the assistant mix and hand you the next batch...pour them all along the sides, front to back and if possible from both sides...1/2 one side, 1/2 the other and do that until you pour all the batches you calculated it would take to fill the bottom of the tank...wait for the expansion...if all went well you should get a solid rise around all the sides of the tank which would theoretically indicate that the entire underside of the tank is solidly foamed...then just finish up to the top...
Just a note, if you don't want any foam to stick ANYWHERE, make sure you protect those areas with some form of masking, either paper or plastic...
Good Luck!

Yup, I agree that they key to getting a good foaming of the tank, would be to get the liquid to the keel before it startes to expand. IIRC . .. JASinIL indicated at one point that as soon as the liquid hits a surface in a pouring scenario, it starts to expand.

I have only done one tank before (on my 242) and it was a bit hectic as I recall. I think that I did 3 pours and ended up getting a poor distribution of foam. . . too much on one side and not enough on the other. To compensate for that situation this time around I have purchased enough foam material to make 20 cubic feet of foam, whereas I only need about 14 cubic feet. Also by measuring and making more 'pours', I am likely to be more accurate on side versus the other.

Since I plan on having everything pre-measured into mixing containers (Parts A & B), so 2 cups for each pour, I can just see myself trying to manage the 28 cups for 14 pours, versus about half that number if I did 8 pours. Probably end up spilling some of the cups, making a mess, etc. Maybe should make a video of it . . .

Definitely will mask off the top of the tank and the sides of the fuel bay that are above the fill line.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

TIP: Sit your mixing cups in an Ice Chest!!! No Foolin!!! It'll trick the mix into thinkin it's cold outside and slow down the reaction time a bit.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

^^^ That kind of stuff is why you're the man, WOG!

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

TIP: Sit your mixing cups in an Ice Chest!!! No Foolin!!! It'll trick the mix into thinkin it's cold outside and slow down the reaction time a bit.

Yes, that definitely works with fiberglass resin, but I am concerned about urethane foam resin in terms of the end result of slowing things down. Essentially, it could (perhaps would) result in less foaming/expansion of the liquid into foam. The end result is that I may not get enough of a fill. So, I am concerned about slowing things down in that way.

I *think* with the 2-part foam, you want to promote the reaction rather than mute it. I could be wrong, but my limited foaming experience tells me that cold temperatures makes for less expansion and a more dense foam, which sort of throws everything off. The US Composites web site also indicates that the expansion of the foam is very temperature sensitive. . . . ideally 75-80 degrees. I may actually be needing to heat the liquid prior to using as the ambient temperatures will be around 60 F when I am pouring the foam.

 

[bigdirty]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

A few years back when I was helping my buddy with his liberator we were pouring at about 65-70 degrees in his shop.. and it worked well. Heck just for fun once in a while we'd put a table spoon of the two parts in water bottles, cap them, and chuck them out the shop door... average temp was -5, some nites 0F that winter... kaBOOM!!! :laugh: I doubt the slowdown of expansion will be an issue for you, but you could do a few small test pours of small amounts ..say one outside next to the boat, and one inside the shop or house somewhere (warmer) to determine what will happen....

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Every person has a opinion... having been there done that here's one. Calculate the area and figure out the expansion rate that should give you the volume you need. Heat the surruonding surfaces to 80 degree's a hair dryer or heat gun will do well. Do one controlled massive mix and pour and fill the tank with water to prevent deformation. I if i remember correctly you have 15 minutes mix time it does not explode once poured

One massive pour will allow the foam in a liquid state to settle..the proper heat will allow it to expand at the rate it was intended to...make sure of your volume and allow for expansion escape..Then stand back and watch it expand form your vent's...going that way with 9lb foam i have a floor that feel's like its concrete.