1964 Starcraft Jet Star Aluminum Runabout Project

[Comoxsam]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

As long as your bunks are carpeted you won't have any issues with the treated lumber and your boat.

Are you so sure about that?

One of my boats had treated bunks that were covered with carpet and the corrosion almost ate right thru the bottom of the boat in one year! If anything the carpet just holds moisture there.

Good to hear that LL hasn't had any problems yet, but it's not an area that you can visually inspect unless you lift the boat off the bunks. I'd be looking very carefully in that area.

If you are aware that treated lumber corrodes aluminum why would you even risk using it? The price of a couple 2x4's is nothing. The time to replace the bunks is minor compared to the work involved prepping, painting, repairing corrosion damage, etc.

But hey it's your boat....

If you wanna see some pictures of what treated wood does to the bottom of an aluminum boat I'll gladly post some.

 

[lakelover]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Yeah, I thought it looked galvanized. As long as your bunks are carpeted you won't have any issues with the treated lumber and your boat. What kind of glue you gunna use to glue the carpet on? Make sure the wood is good and dry or it might react negatively with the glue. You gunna use stainless staples or what?

I'm just sayin...

On my other one I used galvanized roofing nails, no glue & plan to do the same on this one.

 

[lakelover]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

....If you wanna see some pictures of what treated wood does to the bottom of an aluminum boat I'll gladly post some.

Sure, I'd like to see those. I'll jack my boat up a little and check it out & get back to you.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Well as comoxsam does have a point about the treated wood, and without the glue to help "Seal" the chemicals of the treated wood from leaching thru the carpet and onto the aluminum, there Could be a problem. I KNOW your boat is painted and the likelihood of a problem is minimal but you might, and I said Might, want to consider Painting them before carpeting them just to provide a barrier from the chemicals. Not trying to be to ANAL here but...

I'm just sayin...

 

[lakelover]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Yup, I'll figure something out after I check out the bottom, hopefully tomorrow. But would 2004 PT lumber be the same as now? When did they start using the current stuff?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Sorry, but yes it would still be a problem. Basically the differences now is they don't use Arsenic in the wood like they used to. But they still use ACQ which is a copper based chemical. So Aluminum and Copper and Water and you kinda got a Battery trying to work there.

I'm just sayin...

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

I used PT on mine. I figure with them being carpeted and the boat having paint on it, the issue is minimal.

 

[lakelover]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

PT bunks - 7 years and not a speck of corrosion. It spends 9 months of the year on them. In this picture, the boat is lifted up about 2" from the bunk, if anything the area above the bunks is slightly polished from friction.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Like, I said, I'm pretty sure you're good to go. But there is always a chance cuz the treated does have that issue with the ACQ. I would NOT lose sleep over it.

I'm just sayin...

 

[lakelover]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

I'll just put on a coat of paint on before the carpet and forget about it. Wake me up when spring gets here.

 

[Comoxsam]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Alright I got some pics for you non-believers. These photos don't really do the damage justice.

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq107/ComoxSam/P1030707.jpg

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq107/ComoxSam/P1030705.jpg

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq107/ComoxSam/P1030700.jpg

http://i438.photobucket.com/albums/qq107/ComoxSam/P1030698.jpg

All this happened in one year! When I flipped the boat and saw the strips of white powder where the boat was sitting on the bunks my heart sank. I went to work right away with the die grinder and found some pretty serious pitting. I can't get an accurate measurement but I'm estimating some of the deeper pits are almost completely thru the bottom of the boat.

I think there are a lot of factors that we're not examining properly before anyone can say pressure treated lumber is okay for your bunks.

- type of lumber/pressure treatment.
- what aluminum alloy of your boat
- use per year
- fresh water/salt water
- painted bottom
- painted or sealed bunks/carpet

LL, If you've had luck with your pressure treated bunks then good for you. I obviously haven't. Surely your paint will help but for how long? You gonna be checking to see if the paint is in good shape all the time?

I just have no idea why you'd even bother with pressure treated bunks knowing the potential for damage is there? What are the advantages? Is it that important that your bunks last for 10 years? Are you proud of your boat or your bunks?

The "ANAL" comment is hilarious! The amount of work, time and detail that goes into some of these boats is the definition of anal. Yet, you'll risk it all for some really long lasting bunks???? Sleep tight....

(*Sorry for the big photo size but the small ones don't really show how bad the damage is.)

 

[sprintst]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

That definately is some major corrosion. Marinetex will probably fill it but you wouldn't want that happening again.

I wonder if one type is worse than the other. Looks like there are a couple of different types out there with the newer ones higher in copper content but lower in arsenic. None of the metallic content is good due to the dissimiliar metals reaction.

"Pressure-treated lumber uses CCA (chromated copper arsenate) or ACA (ammoniacal copper arsenate) as a preservative. Alkaline copper quaternary (ACQ) is a relatively new wood treatment that is available in some areas of the country. This product is higher in copper than CCA but is free of arsenic."

Better for humans but not better for alum boats

 

[fshngho]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

I just converted my roller trailer to bunks. I used 2 x 8 x 10 pt wood and wrapped them in marine carpet. I was wondering about any problems, and it makes sense the carpet would keep it separated but... truth be known I just spent a lot of time & money on this boat & paint. My goal is to do it right..once. I think I'll buy some regular 2 x 8's, paint/seal them and replace the pt.
More work but less worry.

 

[lakelover]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

LL, If you've had luck with your pressure treated bunks then good for you. I obviously haven't. Surely your paint will help but for how long? You gonna be checking to see if the paint is in good shape all the time?

I just have no idea why you'd even bother with pressure treated bunks knowing the potential for damage is there? What are the advantages? Is it that important that your bunks last for 10 years? Are you proud of your boat or your bunks?

As you say, there are a lot of factors. Looks like you've got quite a mess there. I would say that in your situation, don't use PT!

1) I think in my case, paint will even be overkill. There will be paint on the PT, carpet, paint on the boat bottom; and only fresh-water dunked a couple times a year. Plus the comfort of knowing that after 7 years, there is no evidence of corrosion on my unpainted aluminum-bottom boat. In the photo in my post above, the direct light from the flash actually makes it look worse than it really is. It just has normal aluminum oxidation.

2) Yes, I will check the condition of the paint now and then, now that the subject has been brought up. Never gave it a thought before.

3) The advantage is that I won't have to change them often. Yes, it is important that they last 10 years, I have many other things that demand my time.

4) Yes, I am proud of both my boat and my bunks.

My project standards are to shoot for "good enough" in a pragmatic and presentable sort of way. I am only trying to satisfy myself, and hopefully pass along some info I pick up along the way. I saved for years to fund this project.

Hope you can get yours fixed up, that's pretty nasty for one year. I have pitting on the inside of my transom as the PO had replaced the transom board with PT. Not sure how many years it was there, quite a few I would guess. To him, I think "just did that" meant within the last 10 or 15 years!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

If there was that amount of corrosion done in one year, from Totally carpeted bunks in GOOD shape with NO direct exposure to the wood below then that was SOME powerfully treated wood. If this boat was NOT left in the water for extended periods of time and was in FRESH water lakes and streams then this is really amazing. Also, How in the world would you NOT notice THAT was happening LONG before it got to that point.

I'm just sayin...

 

[djpeters]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

I just converted my roller trailer to bunks. I used 2 x 8 x 10 pt wood and wrapped them in marine carpet. I was wondering about any problems, and it makes sense the carpet would keep it separated but... truth be known I just spent a lot of time & money on this boat & paint. My goal is to do it right..once. I think I'll buy some regular 2 x 8's, paint/seal them and replace the pt.
More work but less worry.

I would do the same if I was in your boat. LOL No pun intended.

 

[Comoxsam]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

If there was that amount of corrosion done in one year, from Totally carpeted bunks in GOOD shape with NO direct exposure to the wood below then that was SOME powerfully treated wood. If this boat was NOT left in the water for extended periods of time and was in FRESH water lakes and streams then this is really amazing. Also, How in the world would you NOT notice THAT was happening LONG before it got to that point.

I'm just sayin...

Yes I was very shocked to see this much damage this quickly! The corroded area was directly under the bunks. You couldn't see any corrosion at all looking underneath until the boat was lifted.

I'll buy the idea that paint will protect the aluminum but for how long in an area exposed to friction?

The idea that carpet will protect the aluminum seems crazy. Carpet gets wet and the chemicals will leach thru and contact the aluminum. This is same reason why you don't use PT wood for vegetable garden boxes. The wood gets wet and the chemicals leach into the soil.

Painting the wood before covering it with carpet...hmm...? How many years are those bunks going to last? How about that paint underneath all that wet carpet?

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that unless someone is an expert on types of pressure treated wood, aluminum and corrosion I don't think it is a good idea to be saying it's okay to use PT wood for your bunks.

 

[lakelover]

Crap!

Crap!

I took the tarp off today to start getting the boat off the trailer, and here's what I found on my paint job. I guess I didn't vacuum well enough after using the steel wool on the aluminum & found rust all over the place. I don't plan to put another coat on at this point, so I guess I'll just try to clean it up best I can.

On the upside, I spent the afternoon jacking up the boat and getting the trailer out from under it so I can build a frame to flip it onto for the winter, then painting next spring. Gotta love that Toyota jack, it's earning its way on to my list of favorite possessions, right along with duct tape and bungees! It jacks in a straight vertical line and has at least a foot of lift. Finished up as the sun was setting.

Looks like it will be a pretty good fit when I lower it:

 

[lakelover]

Murphy again

Murphy again

My enthusiasm is dampened after the best laid plans. I ordered polishing attachments recommended above by Woodonglass from Harbor Freight over two weeks ago. Over the course of the last week, I've called their cust. service twice (India, I think). Both times when I gave my order number, the same wrong name came up. The first time, I was told it was shipping the next day. It didn't show up and I called back a few days later after the website still said "order processing". This time I was told there was no record of my order and I should reorder. I said they should cancel my first order and they said they couldn't because there was no record of it. The next day, I get two charges on my credit card and two "order shipped" emails for both orders. Still no sign of the goods though.

Then today I got an email from the Thinboards.com site where I had ordered a nice piece of oak for my dashboard. After waiting for it to ship for over 2 weeks, they said that is had warped and it wasn't good enough to ship, and it was their last piece of 7" wide stock. They offered to glue together two boards to make me a 7" wide but I don't want a seam going across the middle, so I asked for a refund.

I could have done some work on the trailer today, but...

Maybe tomorrow.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Re: 1964 15' Starcraft Aluminum Runabout Project

Hey lake, I picked up some polishing compound over at my neighborhood Sears. Haven't done anything with it yet. Doesn't really help your double charge from HF, sorry. Doesn't really help your snow issue either. Shouldn't be too long before white stuff visits my area, though, this week is a beauty!