Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

[swick]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

What site were those parts listed on as I need carb kits and thermostat

Thats right here on iboats, in the past I bought carb kits on ebay but its actually a better deal here and no shady sellers.

 

[Gulf Boater]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Great vid have a much better idea of what's involved. Now let's hope it goes back together as easy
Thanks for sharing.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Great job swick! Just one thing. Don't buy the pistons before you take the block to the machine shop. Let them measure the diameter of the cylinders and tell you what size pistons to get. Wrong size pistons can be an expensive mistake. If the motor has been apart before, they may have already put oversize pistons in the motor. If you get standard size pistons and install them in a cylinder that has been bored to .020 or .030 oversize, you'll get low compression, poor performance and the motor will not last long.

 

[tater76]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

WHOA!! Don't go buying parts until that lower cylinder is measured and ok'd for a rebore (and the rest for that matter). That looked like a pretty good dent in the sleeve on #4. The machine shop can tell you if it can be done. I hate to be the stick in the mud here, but I would hate to see you spend $5-$800 only to find out it needs to be resleeved.

 

[swick]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Yeah I'm not buying anything until I talk to someone at a machine shop. I just put a list together so I know what to expect to spend. The scar on #4 is actually from the pin, apparently the retention ring (if it was ever installed?) dissapeared and the pin was just grinding away at the cylinder everytime the piston moved. I hope they can bore it, but I was thinking the same thing, that it will be a very large bore if they can do it. Here are the piston sizes on iboats (pic below), the machine shop should know if and how big to bore it in order for me to get a correct size piston right? I mean it has to be a piston specific to Force doesn't it? I'm about to make some calls and see what the charge will be and head down to see if it can be done. I loaded the thing up on my truck yesterday.

 

[swick]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

By the way, lets hope it does not need to be resleeved, but if it does, would it be cheaper to just find a used block somewhere?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

The wrist pins on your motor are "pressed" into the rod which holds the piston on. This is very common practice in both automotive and marine engines. There is no retaining clip that holds the wrist pin in place. If the wrist pin has shifted and was rubbing on the cylinder wall, then there is a major malfunction there. I suspect that either the rod is bad, or the pin was not properly installed. You may be looking at a replacement block. They can install a sleeve in #4 cylinder if the groove caused by the pin rubbing is too deep, but that is usually several hundred dollars....plus boring. A used empty block or used complete power head may be a better way to go. You won't know until you get the block checked out by the machine shop.

 

[swick]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Pnw, I'd hate to sound argumentative, but these pistons definitely do have retention rings holding th pins in, I have them on both sides of each pin on the top 3 pistons, both missing on #4. I will take a pictureto show you. And they are rings, I can remove them with a precision screw driver.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

My apologies. Didn't realize they were "floating wrist pins". I stand corrected. Much better design than the pressed pin (in my opinion). They can be removed/installed with regular hand tools. I suspect that the pistons may have been replaced. All of the factory pistons that I've seen are "pressed" pin. I could be wrong here too, but that's what I've seen.

 

[swick]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

 

[swick]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

So you suspect these of being aftermarket pistons then? I'm dumbfounded why someone would have gone thru the trouble or attempted to go through the trouble of take this thing apart and put it back together without having done the job correctly.

 

[riptorn]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

You might want to clean up your bolts or you wont get the right torque when you put it back together.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Yes, those are definitely floating wrist pins. Never seen a wrist pin keeper pop out either on a marine or automotive piston. I'll bet that someone forgot to put the keepers on the wrist pin for #4 piston.

 

[swick]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

riptorn you are correct, most of the bolts need to be polished, on one of the first videos I explained how I polished the head bolts and I will be doing the rest of them prior to rebuild. Pnw, I bet you are right about never putting those retaining rings in, the upper one was gone, it almost looked as if it melted into the piston, but I bet it was never there in the 1st place. So now I would like to find where I can buy replacement floaters instead of putting pressed pins back. The pin on #4, granted it had no rings holding it in place, but I literally pushed the pin out with my finger with virtually no effort. Also, I just dropped off the block at an engine machine shop, they have to replace the sleeve afterall, its going to be $300 in total for labor, new sleeve, removing broken bolt, honing all cylinders, and cleaning the block. Sounded reasonable to me so I left it there. Otherwise it was going to be $100 for the bore. I should have it back in about a week. Since I'm getting a new sleeve I'm sticking with the stock size so I can get a set of 4 matching pistons. I had to remove all the lines on the outside of the block so I guess I'll need to see about getting new ones also. I suppose my best bet is to wait til he is done with the block before I order any parts. I also showed him the head and asked if he thought it needed machining or resurfacing and he said it looks good, thats what I thought so I'm happy about that.

 

[tater76]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Thought that might happen.. sorry to hear that. On the other hand, you will know exactly what you are dealing with on the lower cylinder.

 

[swick]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Tater when you did yours, which pistons did you purchase? I mean as far as the pins go.

 

[riptorn]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

riptorn you are correct, most of the bolts need to be polished, on one of the first videos I explained how I polished the head bolts and I will be doing the rest of them prior to rebuild.

I don't remember seeing it but I'm not sure if you been through this post.
Watch the video's in thread #62 and #74.
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=519254&page=3

 

[tater76]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

I bought Weisco pistons and pin kit. You can also save money with Vortex (I think thats the name??? darn brain) brand pistons. Weisco knows what they are doing, and I have been satisfied so far. I cant remember if your pistons are top guided or bottom? That is something either you or the piston manufacturer will need to verify. The Weisco site will have that info.

 

[swick]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

That makes two of us, I don't even know what that means? iboats only has two brands of pistons, and one may be out of stock. I guess the going rate is anwhere from $110-$135. I think $110 right here on iboats, but I don't think those are the floating wrist pin variety. Riptorn, the 1st video in this thread (1st post), @ 9:10 I explain how I polished the bolts with a wire brush on a drill. It does the best job you can ask for and takes no time at all. I never seen someone do it in vinegar before, but thats pretty intertesting, thanks for the idea.

 

[swick]

Re: Took the head off my motor, heres a video explaining everything.

Ok guys, its been a while. I finally got my block back from the machine shop. I had the 3 top cylinders honed (machine shop honed, not diy honed), and #4 was sleeved. The final damage was $335, which I guess is not too bad, all things considered. I decided to replace all 4 pistons for good measure, #2 looked ok from the outside but had a crack on the inside that I noticed after cleaning them all up. This way I'll be confident that it will be more or less a new engine. I took before and after videos, I guess the before is more for the sake of anyone just tuning in or wanting to understand why we get bad compression, the newer video is how the block looks now and completely bare-bones. Oh yeah, so Bill at the machine shop also let me know that the top 3 cylinders were previously re-bored because they were 020 over already, and we just put in a standard size sleeve, so now we will have 2 different size pistons. So you were right PNW, those were aftermarket pistons. Here's the before video: