Outrageous Postal stamp...

[KennyKenCan]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

by spratt,<br /><br />In any case, I cannot understand why a STAMP, of all things, can create such a fervor, militant even, among people who profess to (in a lot of cases) know, love, and serve a God of mercy and love, who forgave even those who took HIS LIFE???

This stamp is an insult to me and everyone I know who was at the WTC that dreadful morning, and to the memory of those who are forever there. <br /><br />I understand that the stamp was in circulation before Sept. 11th, but I cannot believe that my government would print anything like that after the events of that day, especially while we have our soldiers over in Iraq, fighting and dieing everyday, until this whole issue is resolved!<br /><br />Did we, or for that matter, would we have produced something like that during WWI or WWII, promoting the German or Italian spirit? <br /><br />NO WAY!<br /><br />So, why are we doing it now? <br /><br />It would be have considered treasonist, and that is exactly how I see it!<br /><br />Those who committed treason against the U.S.A. use to be, tyed to stake and shot!<br /><br />I find this stamp to be extremly treasonist, and I would love to see the person responsible for its continued publication, tyed to a stake and shot, just to make an example of him for his colaboration with the enemy!<br /><br />Those terrorist tore away what little religion I once had, so how can you expect me to feel the compassion that you speak of?<br /><br />Where is the compasion for me, from these terrorists, for what I went through that day?<br /><br />No, they laugh at me, every single day!<br /><br />I cannot, and will not ever forgive those who are, and were, responsible for all of this...<br /><br />EVER!<br /><br />

posted by woodrat,<br /><br /> Actually, it looks like wiping every muslim from the face of the earth is exactly what KKC is advocating in his most recent post. And from the sounds of it, he would like any of us who use the EID stamp to suffer a similar fate.

YES, you are correct, I would love to see everyone of these terrorist wiped off the face of the planet!<br /><br />And for now, it's every back stabbing Muslim terrorist in the world today!<br /><br />Not all Muslums are terrorists.<br /><br />Until this whole situation is resolved, I take great offense to this stamp being published at my expense!<br /><br />After all, it is my tax money too, that funds the USPS!

 

[woodrat]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

Originally posted by KKC:<br /> <br />Did we, or for that matter, would we have produced something like that during WWI or WWII, promoting the German or Italian spirit? <br /><br />NO WAY!<br /><br />So, why are we doing it now? <br />

Well, for one thing, the religion of Islam did not attack us. The whole religion of Islam, according to President Bush anyway, is NOT the enemy. We are not at war with the religion of Islam. You and many others may wish that we were, and I'm sure if it were cast as a holy crusade there would be even MORE fervent and bloodthirsty support for it. But even the President himself can't bring himself to say - in public, anyway - that we are at war with Islam.

 

[woodrat]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

Originally posted by KKC:<br /> <br /><br /><br />YES, you are correct, I would love to see everyone of these terrorist wiped off the face of the planet!<br /><br />Until this whole situation is resolved, I take great offense to this stamp being published at my expense!<br /><br />After all, it is my tax money that funds the USPS!

Um, am I correct then in assuming that you think that ALL muslims are terrorists? Even your beloved prez won't make that declaration.<br /><br />As to the post office, I don't think its quite so simple as its your tax money that funds it. They get a pretty fair share of their budget from the sale of stamps and postage services. Maybe you should boycott them by not using the mail anymore...<br /><br />And of course, ironically, the liberals use the same line about their tax money supporting religions that they don't agree with to make all the ruckus about religion in government. Sigh...where will it end?

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

woodrat,<br /><br />All I know is, that I hope the next attack happens in your hometown, so that you too can experience the hatred that these people feel for you and me!<br /><br />You obviously have no idea!

 

[woodrat]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

obviously not...

 

[spratt]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

My God, Kenny!!! I have heard of people who have gone through experiences like yours, and having hatred so deeply rooted that it will eat them up like cancer does, but you honestly are the first person I have ever talked to personally about it. I will pray that you can find someplace in your life to forgive the ones who did that tragedy...I didn't say FORGET, but forgive...I really do not think you will ever have a happy life until yo can come to that point. <br /><br />On the ide of natural thoughts and feelings, I do understand. At teh tender age of 6, my natural mother called the DeKalb County Family & Children's Services, and had them come and take myself and one brother and sister to a Foster home...that was in July, and we never seen or heard from her again till December of that year. At that time, the F&CS caseworker threatened her if she did not atleast come see us at Christmas...she did, but it was perfuntory, and held no meaning. My Foster Mom became my Mom for teh next many years, and I still consider her my Mom...my mother died in 1989, and when I heard it I felt as though an acquaintance, someone I knew afar, had passed...it held no meaning or emotion for me. I say all this because during my early years, until I was about 35, I held a deep hatred for her, and it consumed me a lot...I think it was her death that caused me to look at myself, and realise that it was MY problem, not hers. I had to be right, if I wanted to make it to Heaven, she was gone and nothing could ever be changed now...my mother was a ********** who had 7 kids, none of whom had the same father. She taught my oder brothers how to steal from stores, and both brothers eventually died a violent crime infested life, and I have always held her responsible for thier actions. I was lucky, or blessed!!! I was placed in a foster home with a loving mother. Hugs and kisses every day, ya know? Sunday school, attention, everything that made a home a home. Kenny, the moral of all this, is that I have forgiven her, for all the good it will do her...but for me, I am clean, free from that baggage and attitude.<br /><br />I pray for you, and others with that feeling, that you can also forgive. I still feel the US is right in what it is doing, but the ones who performed those awful acts in 2001 are all dead...teh ones who funded and directed still need to receive their punishment...if our soldiers never find nor eradicate them, God will evenutally take care of it.<br /><br />In the end, we all receive our just rewards.

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

Sorry to hear that woodrat

 

[woodrat]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

well, KKC, I hate to disappoint you, but I seriously doubt that my village of 300 souls or so, out in the woods, will be the next target of anything. There isn't a single traffic light in the whole county! <br /><br />But, hey, thanks for thinking of me!

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

Originally posted by spratt:<br /> My God, Kenny!!! I have heard of people who have gone through experiences like yours, and having hatred so deeply rooted that it will eat them up like cancer does, but you honestly are the first person I have ever talked to personally about it. I will pray that you can find someplace in your life to forgive the ones who did that tragedy...I didn't say FORGET, but forgive...I really do not think you will ever have a happy life until yo can come to that point. <br /><br />On the ide of natural thoughts and feelings, I do understand. At teh tender age of 6, my natural mother called the DeKalb County Family & Children's Services, and had them come and take myself and one brother and sister to a Foster home...that was in July, and we never seen or heard from her again till December of that year. At that time, the F&CS caseworker threatened her if she did not atleast come see us at Christmas...she did, but it was perfuntory, and held no meaning. My Foster Mom became my Mom for teh next many years, and I still consider her my Mom...my mother died in 1989, and when I heard it I felt as though an acquaintance, someone I knew afar, had passed...it held no meaning or emotion for me. I say all this because during my early years, until I was about 35, I held a deep hatred for her, and it consumed me a lot...I think it was her death that caused me to look at myself, and realise that it was MY problem, not hers. I had to be right, if I wanted to make it to Heaven, she was gone and nothing could ever be changed now...my mother was a ********** who had 7 kids, none of whom had the same father. She taught my oder brothers how to steal from stores, and both brothers eventually died a violent crime infested life, and I have always held her responsible for thier actions. I was lucky, or blessed!!! I was placed in a foster home with a loving mother. Hugs and kisses every day, ya know? Sunday school, attention, everything that made a home a home. Kenny, the moral of all this, is that I have forgiven her, for all the good it will do her...but for me, I am clean, free from that baggage and attitude.<br /><br />I pray for you, and others with that feeling, that you can also forgive. I still feel the US is right in what it is doing, but the ones who performed those awful acts in 2001 are all dead...teh ones who funded and directed still need to receive their punishment...if our soldiers never find nor eradicate them, God will evenutally take care of it.<br /><br />In the end, we all receive our just rewards.

Very good post, spratt.<br /><br />I have a very good reason to HATE my mother in law, but I have better things to spend my energy on.<br /><br />Hate will consume you.<br /><br />Ken

 

[spratt]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

I think we could create a whole new post on the Mother In Law subject Thank the Lord I got a good one...<br /><br />There are things in this life I "hate" but I do my very best to not hate people...mankind was created in God's image...I fully believe that teh scripture that talks about if we hate our brother whom we have seen, how can we love God who we have NOT seen? is a compelling reason to at least TRY to be civil to others...I woudl really HATE to stand before God in Judgement adn have Him tell me to depart because when He was thirsty I never gave Him to drink...remember that one? When we do it to one of His, we do it to Him...and He even said that when the Jews were so misled, that they were not denying the Apostles themselves, but God...simpletons did not even recognize their Salvation thought the Scriptures had been enlightened in so many cses to them...they asked Him who He was and He would come right out and tell them I AM HE...blindness comes in so many forms. And hate deepens it.

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

spratt,<br /><br />You are correct, that this will eat me up like a cancer, but I cannot and will not change my feelings until after we have finished dealing with these terrorists.<br /><br />Only then will I be able to begin to forgive the actions taken against me.<br /><br />But not until all who were lost that day, and the days, weeks, months, and even years following Sept. 11th, have been avenged, I can have absolutly no sympathy for these people.<br /><br />For they have none for me!<br /><br />If anyone thinks I'm cinical and hold a grudge, you are right, I do!<br /><br />Maybe it will take for everyone to have had to feel the heat of the fires, and the panic of that day first hand, to understand, but I hope not.<br /><br />The things I saw that day, I hope no one will ever have to see!<br /><br />No one should have had to, exept these Muslums have made it a point that we did, and now they have to pay, for their religious beliefs, which is exactly what this War on Terror is all about.<br /><br />I do not wish a terrorist attack upon any memeber of i-boats, and if I have offended anyone, I am sorry, but sometimes I think alot of people are beginning to forget the horrors of that day, and are becoming way too complacent.<br /><br />I will probably die with a grudge against these people, for I can never forget what these people did to me that day!

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

Right on Spratt ,your posts are honest and refreshing and it is awesome to hear when somebody can overcome issues like you did and come out of it a better man. KKC I can not understand what you went through....I was not there. It must be horrific and to me one of the worst things that has ever happened to any of my country men. My prayers go to Those that have died but I am particularly saddend when I hear of how the survivors still feel to this day and probably will for a long time to follow. I do know as long as you keep this hatred on the inside of you, those who did this have you bound to them almost like slavery. There is a freedom in forgivness and for that matter it would probaly drive our enemies nuts if we forgave them. Yes we have to be at war but hatred only breeds hatred and more attacks. We do what we must but when its over we can not continue to hate or all we are doing is causing a circle effect and maybe not tomarrow or next week or next year, but sometime in the future our hate will come back and hurt us again. It has to stop somewere, and I pray you are able to forgive a people as a whole, whos crazy extreemists on the edge of their socity caused you and many others so much pain.

 

[Carphunter]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

I believe that if you read into KKC's posts, he makes it clear that he would like to see the Muslim terrorists wiped from the planet, not all Muslims. I have to say I agree.<br /><br />.........and for the record, I see people commenting that cannot possibly understand what Kenny went through that day, so maybe cut him a little slack.

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

mikeandronda,<br /><br />I understand and hear what you have said, but it still does not change my point of view.<br /><br />I don't think my hatred will ever wain.<br /><br />It will take an extremly long time for me to even consider forgiving those, who's only goal it is, is to inflict their religion and way of life upon me!<br /><br />That is our enemies goal, and I for one, will never give in!<br /><br />If you people can't see that, then I feel that the beginning of the end of The United States is upon us.<br /><br />And that, makes me extremly sad.

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

Thanks Carpy.<br /><br />It's refreshing to know that at least one person can understand what I'm saying.

 

[deputydawg]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

KKC, I understand your thoughts on this. I have my own understanding too, gained in Iraq and Afganistan. The only point I make is it is NOT a religious thing! I did not fight a HOLY war, it was a war against terrorists. There are WHITE American soldiers fighting over there AGAINST the terrorists that are MUSLIM! They hold a deep hatred for these terrorists as do most of us. They have been shot and blown up by these terrorists in the desert along with Christians, Jews, Buddists and all others. If you were there you would be surprised and amazed at the number of citizens over there, YES MUSLIMS that are against and very angry at the terrorists. The point I make is this was only a religious action when THEY want it to be, like when they are trying to recruit followers and expecially after they attack US ground troops then run to the "holy places" to hide literally thumbing their noses saying Can't touch us, we are on base. <br />This hatred of these people is earned, there is no doubt there. All responsible or supporting of their actions should be killed, no other justice should be permitted. But to do this and win this war we need to remember to keep it in perspective. It is terrorists not muslims. <br />Correct me is I am wrong, but wasn't Hitler a Christian in his own mind? <br />They do make Christian holiday stamps featuring the virgin Mary and Baby Jesus.<br />And I wouldn't lick this Muslim stamp either, even if it wasn't self adheisive. I can see however that I need to pay more attention to my stamps I am licking.

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

deputydawg,<br /><br />I guess my feelings have the mentality that we Americans had during WWII, where we all said, "The only good German, was a dead German".<br /><br />The way I see it right now, the only good Muslum, is a dead Muslum, whether or not they are, or are not a terrorist!<br /><br />For that I am guilty, but I can't just flip a switch and change the way I feel, and as long as this country continues to look at this in a passivist way, I feel we will lose this battle.<br /><br />I also feel that you have a unique perspective on this, but you were a combatant over there, I was not a combatant on Sept. 11th, I was trying to put diner on my table!<br /><br />So far to date, I have lost 14 weeks of pay over this whole ordeal, and I still lose days at work, because some days, I just can't bring myself into New York City, where I work.<br /><br />I still live that day, everyday!

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

woodrat,<br /><br />I wish you no ill feelings, nor do I honestly wish a terrorist attack upon you, or your neighbors!<br /><br />But I also will not edit what I said, because I firmly believe every word I posted.<br /><br />My intentions where not to insult or degrade anyone at i-boats, just trying to give you another insight into this whole situation.<br /><br />There are still alot of P.O.ed people over this ordeal, and yes, I am one of them.<br /><br />This stamp just really ticks me off!<br /><br />I find it extremly offensive, after all that has happened over the past 3 years.

 

[spratt]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

Kenny, you are so very right...one would have had to be in your situation to fully understand it. I was totally ignorant that anything at all had happened on the 11th, until while in a courtroom for some business, the TV was replaying the footage of the collase of the buildings at about 10AM my time, already 1PM for you. And, believe it or not, for me it was not a great shock, a lot of pain, nor a sense of dread...just the deep knowledge that life as we knew it was about to change drastically in the United States. Later on, in the days to follow, things changed for me, as I truly understood the carnage and pain suffered that day by our fellow Americans in New York who had been killed or lost friends and family for no apparent reason. It was unimaginable for me to read and see the news and watch as people leapt to their death that day attempting to escape the intense heat and pain from the fires.<br /><br />Another thing I want to say is that this post has turned around and is focusing on you, my friend, and if I was a part of that, forgive me. I only wanted to address a generality of feelings that was being expresed by many, and the seeming hatred that was coming through. I think Woodrat actually wakened me to it in his posts. This whole affair is not about Kenny, but the printing and sales of the Muslim holiday stamp.<br /><br />However, through it all, there is also a lot of misplaced emotiions, mainly I think because most of US do not rightly know where to focus our feelings about the whole sordid affair adn the present war our countrymen are involved in, and dying in almost daily. May God bless the families of the injured adn dead American soldiers, and console them in their grief.<br /><br />I am not going to turn this thread into a satire of religion and the teachings of the Bible...enough has been said already about that, and some by my self. I will say one thing here, though, and that is that all this political unrest throughout all lands around the globe points to some major happenings that cannot be very far from us. I am concerned about people that may not be able to release themselves from this hatred of humanity before it turns out to be too late for them. And that isn't just you, Kenny. There are entire nations of people like yourself, who cannot, nor will not, let the past rest...nor should they! But please take a look at your heart and make sure that you are right in what you are saying and doing, and that it is something you can justify before God some day.<br /><br />I am just me, and I am nothing special, but I have seen a lot, and lived through a lot, much of it painful, some of it absolutely glorious and pelasant. Life is like that. I used to be so inwardly focused that I thought I was the only person who had lived through a dysfuntional family as a child, but I found that I wasn't. I always felt that people should pity me, and feel sorry for me, like maybe the world owed me a lot because of never having a Dad, nor being able to live and be raised with and by my own natural mother, nor dwell in the house with my own siblings...I presently feel like I have about the best life I could possibly have. <br /><br />I hope the best for you, and all the rest ofiboaters, knowing that everywhere in this great land are people of the same ideas,whom hold the same feelings inside. I know that I cannot, nor am I going to attempt, to change yours nor anyone elses emotions and feelings about developments in this nation and around the globe. I am not, by any means, any better than anyone else,a nd am subject to the same feelings and emotions, that is for sure. I am certain that I have allowed soem of my inner thoughts to leak out into my posts at times...I guess until we are changed by God into perfect, wehave to act like humans <br /><br />And who understands us like the One who made us, huh??? With His help, we can all make it...

 

[lakelivin]

Re: Outrageous Postal stamp...

Kenny,<br /><br />There was a radio talk show on not too long after 9/11. One woman who called in was terrified for her children because of the terrorist attack (and I don't think she was even in a high risk area). She honestly wished we would just nuke the entire middle east in order to wipe out any future threat. She was so fearful and angry she wasn't rational. Didn't care about the large number of innocents who would be killed to wipe out a much smaller number of terrorists. Couldn't think clearly enough to comprehend the negative effects such an action would have on our country (we would instantly turn ourselves into the equivalent of Nazi Germany or the Khmer Rouge in the eyes of the rest of the world). All I could think was that I hoped she would get some professional help in dealing with her fear because it had totally hijacked her life.<br /><br />I don't think anyone can understand what you went through without experiencing it firsthand. I'm sure that there are many here who might have similar sentiments as you if they had personally experienced 9/11 like you did. I suspect your reaction is understandable given what you went through. I also suspect that a good many survivors are still suffering from post traumatic stress syndrome. Or at least being driven much more by traumatized emotions than by rational thoughts.<br /><br />But from a rational perspective, others here realize that the Muslim terrorists are a small subset of all Muslims. I bet almost everyone here have similar feelings towards the TERRORISTS as you do. The difference is that considering ALL Muslims the same as the terrorists indicates hate & intolerance. And people are reacting to that without considering what drove you to that state. <br /><br />I guess the bottom line is that although I can understand your perspective given what you went through, that perspective is necessarily gonna be warped by the trauma you experienced. I hope you are getting (or will get) some professional help in order to work through your anger, fear, and hatred (or at least focus it better). For your sake. Because until you do, the terrorists negative influence on your life stays strong and continues. <br /><br />Hope this makes some sense, and hope you realize that I share this perspective in the spirit of help.<br /><br />I wish you the best in your healing.