My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

[Woodonglass]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

If the foam is not structural, and I don't think it is then you can use either. Cutting holes and pouring is A-OK.

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

<As per your first link under your signature>

Wood, I am reviewing the materials I need and steps in the next phase of my restoration. I just want to make sure I have things correctly, and I have a few questions. I did get the wood today from Prassell Lumber. They have Launa plywood that is 3/4 in and they said that is their Arauco made with water resistant glue and no voids. Looks real nice and it was $32.50 a sheet. Got my plastic and today I am working on getting the cover built to keep the water out. I would also like to get the transom cut if possible.

Anyhow, you may recall I am using the epoxy resin from Raka (part A + B = Medium). I also have 10 oz cloth and 1700 biax cloth with no mat. Just so I can keep straight, which one should I think of as 1.5 oz CSM?

I am guessing the 10 oz cloth will be my version of 1.5 oz CSM. Then the 1700 I will think of as the 1708. CORRECT???

Next, I am looking at your pict and directions on building the clamps for outboard style transom - that is what I have.

I am going to have 5 clamps which appear 4 foot long each (so qty 5 2x4x8s).
Qty 10 = 1/2" x 10" bolts (not threaded???),
Qty 40 washers (4 washers per bolt x 10 bolts total), and
Qty 10 nuts (used as spacers)
10 cotter pins (I am assuming on the dry fitting I will determine the place for the hole in bolt for cotter pin and drill that?)

If the bolts are NOT threaded and I am drilling a hole for cotter pin, I am not sure how I will get them tight enough for a good bond between transom and shell of boat. What am I doing wrong in my thinking, something just does not sound right?


It looks like bolt, washer, wood, washer, nut, washer, wood, washer and cotter pin is that correct????

Are these clamps also good for holding the 2 layers of plywood together as the titebond dries or do I need to have bolts on both ends of them for that?

Thanks, AJ

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

You're spot on about the cloth.
Clamps well... this drawing should help clear things up.

I'd use 10' 2x4's and make em 5' long. You will need Threaded Bolts. 20 washers 10 nuts 10 cotter pins. You will need to use a 1 1/4" spade bit to counter sink the hole for the nut. Do that first then drill the 5/8" hole thru the board. then plug it with paper and epoxy the nut in. Plug the nut with paper too so not epoxy get in.

For making the transom you should read and study and do just like this guy. It's just like I would do it. Start @ Post #263 and read 2-3 pages. You will learn a lot.

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=526064&page=11&highlight=craigweaver

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Awesome Wood, Thanks, CWs thread is very informative. I will continue to refer to that and others.

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Got all my stuff together for making the clamps. Today I will be drilling holes in 2x4s and bolts to make clamps, then sanding and gluing the 2 3/4" sheets of transom together and clamping (assuming the dry run works well). Can't recall if I will be putting 1 or 2 coats of resin on the transom to seal it, but I will be reviewing that thread of CWs too. The 2 pieces of plywood fit in the boat well. There is just one small area I will sand down a little before gluing and clamping them together. Very excited and a little nervous to get to this point.

OH side note, I was in Dallas area last weekend looking at houses. Almost bought one (until our closer second look when we saw much foundation problems) and it had a 30 x 30 workshop that the previous owner had installed a steel ibeam sitting on top of concrete pillars. I guess he used to redo classic cars. WOW, that would have been the perfect place to redo the boat. My jaw dropped and I got a big smile. Guess what I am doing at the new house when I find it?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Precoat the wood with resin and when it tacks but not dry, lay the CSM and wet it out. Let it dry overnight and drill your holes the next day and install it. You'll need 3-4 quarts of PB. Don't clamp it to hard just enuf to get some squeeze out of the PB. Use what's left over to fillet around the edges.

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Ok, have 2 questions.

1) The transom area of my boat has a "flaring" I call it on both back corners. That means the wood for the transom does not sit up against it completely. I am wondering if I should fill those areas in so they are level with the rest of the tansom and the wood fits snugly up against all of it. My thought was to use pb mix and fill it up to be level, then let it set, sand it and then do wood transom install. What do you guys think?

So the first and last photo show the way the transom use to be - basically it looked like they ran ply straight across and where it attached it did, and where it did not was an empty void. Photos 2 and 3 show the flaring as I call it or angle to the corners of the transom.


Got 5 5' clamps made today, sanded both sides of both pieces of plywood for transom (using Luana which is like arauco ply). Test fitted clamps and I am good to glue. Going to glue tonight and start covering tomorrow or Monday with resin. Got the titebond blue label which is water resistant glue for laminating the 2 pieces of plywood for transom.

2) Seems when I read other threads everyone is covering the plywood with csm, but it does NOT seem they cover the ends or edges. Is there a reason for not wrapping it over edges? Seems that would aid in waterproofing it. Does it matter?

Thanks. aj

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Go back and Read CW's thread. I think it discusses wrapping the edges with CSM. Easiest way is to cut the CSM about 2" oversized wetting it out and right when it tacks up pull and tear the excess 2" edges to make em "hairy" then use a Chip Brush and "Dab" the hair over the edges with resin. Do the same thing on the other side.

If making the transom fit up into the "Flairs" will not interfere with fitting the Top cap back on then IMHO I would recommend making it fit up into those areas.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

@ Q#2: If they are skipping the edges & ends, they are missing a HUGE water intrusion point. The ends & edges will wick water faster & leach further into the transom. That's why it's also important to seal the inside surface of any hole drilled into the transom: Ladder/speedo pickup/fish finder transducer mounts, ski or transom tie down eyes and the motor thru bolts.

I think WOG uses larger stick pins to help hold CSM as it folds over the edge. Since poly resin kicks quick, and you'll likely have scraps, cut offs & remnants/leftovers of CSM anyway. Save all those scraps, you can also cut them up as needed & make your own rough 1/4" cut fibers for structural PB (Hairy PB). I'd suggest you do both large faces 1st, let it kick, trim up overhanging CSM & cleanup any over-run resin, then tear the scraps into smaller pcs & use them along the edge & end grain. Dab the edge w/ resin, apply CSM, Dab w/ resin to wet out & on to the next all the way around the edge.

Q#1: If there isn't any stress cracking or problems with the hull at those flares at this point in it's life, my thought would be to put the transom back the way they did originally. If there are problems or signs of stress cracking, it might require some thought before proceeding.

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Thanks guys, guess I missed where they folded the edges of fabric around/over the edges of the wood (transom). I am feeling much better with the info you guys provided.

In the process of clamping the transom together last night I realized I do not have the "know how" I thought I did with those clamps. First I tried drilling holes thru the bolds but kept breaking blades. I even tried a cement blade and had no luck. So I went with the nut instead of the cotter pin. Perhaps that was my first mistake but either way, I am still missing something with the "how to" part of the clamps. When I tighten them down it gets tight at the part closest to the bolts, NOT anywhere else along the way. So I ended up putting multiple other clamps and straps on so it was held together properly. Still I have to figure them out because that is all I will have to hold it together tight to the transom of the boat.

So with the clamps, is there a special blade type to use when drilling for the cotter pins? Still, assuming the cotter pin goes up close to the first piece of wood, how do I get the boards to tighten down evenly across the entire surface of the transom? Do I need to create more space/distance between the boards at the top bolt? If so I am thinking I could do that by first drilling for cotter pin (or leaving that nut there) and adding a second nut between the 2 boards and use the one to create the amount of space I need to get them to actually clamp.

Sorry, I really hate playing that woman card, but it does seem like an appropriate time to use it. :facepalm: LOL

Thank so much for guys like you!

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Just jumping in, I think you're using the WOG transom clamps and I think I know the part of the clamp that has you confused.

The middle bolt tightens/pulls the boards together, the end bolt spreads/pushes the boards apart. When you put the clamps on tighten the middle until it just starts to snug to the clamped object. Then switch to adjusting the end bolt which will force the tips to start to pinch at the very end (where there aren't any bolts). Then its just a matter of going back and forth to tighten the clamp down and get equal pressure.

If you do this in a dry run to get the desired squeeze it should only take a few turns of each to get them loose and off. This then lets you slide the clamp back into place and have them returned to their previous adjustment quickly.

Do lots of dry runs, especially putting the clamps on and tightening. you'll get the hang of it.

I CAN'T STRESS ENOUGH - LOTS OF DRY RUNS!!!!

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Thanks so much TDF that is sort of what I was thinking but I just was not sure. Sure good to know I have you all to turn to.
Tomorrow I will do some dry fits of the wood transom to the boat. I know I still have to cut out some of the top to make the cap fit back on so I will also be measuring and cutting that. After a bunch of dry runs and feeling better about working with the clamps, I will plan to seal it with resin on Wed and install it on Thur. I must admit, I am a little nervous working with the kicking time of the resin and getting this in correctly, but I am sure if I practice a lot it will go smoother than I thought. Thanks again TDF for the help.

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Took the transom out of clamping system(s) lol. Sanded it down and did a dry fit. Here is what I have so far. I am headed over to storage to check how much clearance I need to allow to get cap back on. Learned that from reading the threads on this. Totally would not have thought about it otherwise! Thank God for all you guys out there! Also going to play with the clamps today and get a better feel for them. Then once that is all done, I will start saturating it with resin and glassing it. YAH! Been keeping up to date on Craigweaver's thread to. I just hope it goes as smoothly for me, but I don't know why it wouldn't. So far the only "real" problem has been mastering the clamps and now that makes total sense. Not too bad getting a pattern and cutting wood to size. I would have liked it a bit closer on the starboard corner, and I will probably have to cut or sand a tad off the outer edge there. The bottom I can fillet it PB. Let me know what you all think. Thanks. aj

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

First 3 casualties of boat building:
1) Grinder
2) Sander
3) Eye Glasses

Don't know what happened, I just pushed them up as I always do and the arm fell off. LOL


So a temporary time out while I get them fixed.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Soooo... refresh my memory and tell me why the transom is modified to be full height across the full width??

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Well Wood, that is a very good question. You see, I was trying to build muscle. No, seriously it was because I was not thinking far enough ahead I guess. Anyhow, that was only have the trouble I had. Actually, just before I laminated the 2 pieces together I realized I did not have enough titebond. So I went to the original (now backup) plan and used PL glue (water resistant). The problem there was before I got it all on it started drying and sticking to my brush. The more I tried spreading it back out the worse the problem got. So I (thinking I had it spread out enough) put the 2 pieces together and clamped it. Of course at that point I did not understand the clamps the way I now do! :facepalm: So after waiting 3 days for the PL glue to release all the gases I removed the 3 clamping systems I had on it only to find a 1/4" gap that went in some areas 3" deep. Well I kept hearing Wood in my ear saying "NO VOIDS", then I heard my Grandfather saying, "Nope, that's not right now you gotta do it again". So that is what I did. I was able to separate the 2 pieces and grind off all the PL glue, re-sand it down and used epoxy to glue it this time. Of course I also played with the clamps more too before doing so, and this is what I have:



I was just looking at it this morning and I like it much better. Still have clamps on as I finished around 5 pm yesterday but right now the gap looks much, much better. Took 2 or 3 hours to grind off the PL, but I am glad I did because those 2 pieces came apart way too easy. If it does not feel solid today when I remove clamps, I will get 2 more sheets of ply and start over. I have not come this far to half *** it now.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Well, I guess I am a BAD communicator. What you have done IS OK!!! That's what you need to know up front. Now what you could have done to make things MUCH easier was.... Use Titebond III Wood Glue or Epoxy to Glue the Pieces together. Screwed them together with 2-3 dozen Deck screws for CLAMPS. Removed the Screws the next day cuz the PB and resin and glass would fill the holes when you installed the transom and you're gunna drill holes anyway. It's MY BAD for NOT Explanining this Much Better. Again, What you have done will be FINE!!! No Worries. Just made things a bit more difficult and worrisome for you. I apologize for Not being much more clear in my explanations. I am going to remedy that today in my Link on how to fabricate a transom so others will not have this issue in the future. Please don't sink my boat!!!!!

 

[Deleted member 340796]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Wood, Don't worry about it. You communicate just fine. I really appreciate all your help. I would never have made it this far without you. I just think I could have done things differently the first time around and I did not want to risk messing it up at this point. We are good. I am happily surprised that things have gone so well up to this point, so no worries. Thank you so much.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

I have corrected the Link for Transoms. You might want to check it out. It explains things much better now. I think!!!!

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: My first boat restoration, I need some guidance - PLEASE HELP!

Wood, I'm just heading into my own transom repair, and I read your instructions for transoms. The revised version is even better! Thanks!

jim