Lost

heycods

Captain
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
3,941
Re: Lost

Gosh Tx glad to see you back amoung the living. I seldom agree with your Opinions, but I do respect your right to have them. It would be an awfly boring world if we all agreed.
Catching any fish?o:)
 

treedancer

Commander
Joined
Apr 10, 2005
Messages
2,216
Re: Lost

Quote 12footer

I can esspecially relate to this comment in D Chong's piece;
"Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece.


NSA's warrantless electronic surveillance program

A federal judge ruled on August 17, 2006 that the program violates the FISA statute enacted by Congress as well as the First and Fourth Amendments of the United States Constitution. She ordered a stop to the eavesdropping without warrants. However, the parties to the suit agreed that the program could continue until a hearing on the matter on September 7.


Amendment IV (the Fourth Amendment) of the, United States Constitution which is part of the Bill of Rights, guards against unreasonable searches and seizures. It was a response to the controversial writs of assistance a type of general search warrant which were a significant factor behind the American Revolution.


[colour=green]Your right 12 footer cant have these rights taken away,that’s why so many people are trying so hard to protect them.
 

Pony

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
4,355
Re: Lost

JB,

Come on, "he just doesn't understand." ?

What makes you believe you know everything? I thought you are supposed to be critical of words, not people? I guess you are an honorable idiot, txs.

He simply does not agree with you. Nothing more, nothing less. Break down the words JB, not the person. It is getting very old JB.

I agree 100%, but now that that has been said, expect a scolding for not using the "contact the mods" thing that never seems to work.


I don't necessarily agree with either side of this argument. On the fence here. I agree that there is a price to pay for freedom, but at the same time you have to get some something worth the price you are paying. Its not really possible to determine that because we will never know what would have happend without going to Iraq etc.

 

PW2

Commander
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Messages
2,719
Re: Lost

That's a good point, KZ.

I can't think off the top of my head a country that has turned communist since Viet Nam. Not sure if that is precisely accurate, but close enough.

Why is that? It is the political choices, and the rationale, of the world at large.

Just as in Viet Nam, this has to be won politically, and economically, and culturally, and any other way you can think of, but not militarily.

If we were fighting Muslim extremists in Iraq, the author might have a valid point. But that is not the enemy in Iraq (or at least the primary enemy) We are fighting those that don't want their country occupied, and want to take revenge on those that oppressed them for so long (The Shiites against the Sunnis) or those that have been in power for so long and don't want to give up power (The Sunnis against the Shiites).

There is no military solution to this. It is only political. Whether that is breaking up Iraq into a three state solution (Sunni;Shiite; and Kurd) or letting them fight it out, winner take all, or perhaps they can come up with some coalition where all three can co-exist (doubtful, IMO) Whatever the case, the Iraqis have to ultimately decide-we can't do it for them.

At any rate our military will be mired in this muck until we finally say "Enough is enough" unless we alter course.

We need to put together elite teams of Rangers or the like, technological stuff like satellites and drones and whatever else we can come up with intelligence wise--and find and destroy the extremists one cell at a time, and one leader at a time.

That is how we can win this war
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Lost

You can't unteach hate. You can either un-breed it (takes several generations), or eliminate the haters.


Here is a quote from the Jill Carrol stories series on Yahoo news. This proves we are fighting the enemy in Iraq.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/ojilleight


"There was no mistaking that the mujahideen who held me hated America. "One day, hopefully, one day, America, all of America gone," said one of my guards early in my captivity. He spread his hands out wide as if to wipe America off the map.

"I don't quite understand," I said. "All America?"

My female jailer Um Ali, listening in on the conversation, translated the sentiment into simpler Arabic for me. "No journalists, no people, no nothing," she said.

I could also see that Shiites were high on their list of enemies. Once, when attempting to explain the historical split between Sunnis and Shiites, Abu Nour, the leader of my captors, stopped himself after he referred to "Shiite Muslims."

"No, they are not Muslims," Ink Eyes said. "Anyone who asks for things from people that are dead, and not [from] Allah, he is not a Muslim."

He was referring to Shiites appealing to long-dead Islamic leaders to intercede with God, asking for miracles such as curing the sick. It's a practice similar to that of Catholics praying to saints.

But after the Feb. 22 bombing of the Askariya Shrine, and rampant Sunni-Shiite killing, nearly every captor I came into contact with would tell me about their hate for Shiites first. Abu Nour now simply referred to them as "dogs." "


Ken
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Lost

Sheesh!!

I made no attack on TXS. I disagree with him. Mods have that right just as the rest of you do.

I said he doesn't understand. Clearly several JB bashers didn't understand what I meant by that.

Get off my case.:|
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Lost

For some reason some people have decided moderators cant have opinions nor can they be human.

They too will never get it.

Ken
 

Pony

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
4,355
Re: Lost

No KIz thats now what I think....................Where was it said moderators can't have opinions? I don't recall that. Its just some moderators think because they have a moderator bar under their name, their opinions carry more clout than anyone elses. Saying that "txs just doesnt understand" implies that. JMHO I very rarely agree with txs, but I think there is a fine line between disagreeing with his words and attacking his intellect. I dont think it was a direct attack on it, but rather indirect.

FWIW I don't think it happens very often, but there are some members here who are treated very unfaily on occasion. 1959 FDR being one of them.

 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: Lost

treedancer said:
Quote 12footer

I can esspecially relate to this comment in D Chong's piece;
"Democracies don't have their freedoms taken away from them by some external military force. Instead, they give their freedoms away, politically correct piece by politically correct piece.


NSA's warrantless electronic surveillance program

A federal judge ruled on August 17, 2006 that the program violates the FISA statute enacted by Congress as well as the First and Fourth Amendments of the United States Constitution. She ordered a stop to the eavesdropping without warrants. However, the parties to the suit agreed that the program could continue until a hearing on the matter on September 7.


Amendment IV (the Fourth Amendment) of the, United States Constitution which is part of the Bill of Rights, guards against unreasonable searches and seizures. It was a response to the controversial writs of assistance a type of general search warrant which were a significant factor behind the American Revolution.


[colour=green]Your right 12 footer cant have these rights taken away,that’s why so many people are trying so hard to protect them.
And then Dr Chong followed that up with this;
"And they are giving those freedoms away to those who have shown, worldwide that they abhor freedom and will not apply it to you or even to themselves, once they are in power.

They have universally shown that when they have taken over, they then start brutally killing each other over who will be the few who control the masses.

What is happening in Iraq is a good example. Will we ever stop hearing from the politically correct, about the "peaceful Muslims"?"

I should note that In times of wars past, other presidents have instituted much more draconian "infringements upon human rights", and have remained within the constitution. Unfortunately ,as inhumane as my enemy is, they still fall under the disquise of being "human". Americans have always respected human rights and always will, in spite of you delusions otherwise.

To use the US Constitiution as a means of defeating the US might be a wee-bit "COUNTER-PROIDUCTIVE"...
And I will die before I facilitate my enemy in any known way, shape or form.
you will lose this war.

 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
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Messages
4,807
Re: Lost

Thailand was heading for communism, but thanks to a little help from the US, it was defeated.

Ken
 

txswinner

Banned
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
2,326
Re: Lost

We need to be careful about what we are against. Are we against communism or unjust governments that abuse people and restrict basic freedom. When we say communism does it mean socialism. Compared to what and how. All governments will never be the same as cultures and peoples are different in beliefs.

Saddam was elected although not sure it was what we would see as an open election. Likewise is not Iran run by open elections to those deemed legal to vote.

Do not forget it was not so long ago that we did not permit blacks and women the right to vote.

I agree with PW2 in that we should have a elite group of terrorist busters that we advise all countries will be used against terrorist anywhere in the world. Then support these troops 100% in the pursuit to eliminate any and all cells. Invading Iraq was never about terrorist, even W did not say that was the purpose.

Pony, you are correct, moderators get to critize us but not vice versa, I will try to send my complaint as you suggested. In the meantime, JB has acted in such a manner that would suggest that his opinions would only be of one who mental capacity could be equated to a jerk, not that I think he is a jerk cause that would be name calling.
 

txswinner

Banned
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
2,326
Re: Lost

Heycods, I been doing some fishin, fresh water went dead about 3 weeks back but bought interest in a boat out of SPI and have been out with the Captain on it a couple of times. Really been fun and fishing in Gulf is good but sure gets hot during the day. Plenty of AC at night and nothing like a slow roll to put ya to sleep.

You been doing any good lowing the fish population?
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
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Re: Lost

We are against anyone who would enjoy seeing the USA destroyed, and bring the world back into the stone age:

Al Queda
Iran
Any radical Islamist - Jihadist,Hezbolla, mujahideen, Taliban

Next on the list are those that would help these crazies:
Saddam
North Korea

Ken
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: Lost

kenimpzoom said:
We are against anyone who would enjoy seeing the USA destroyed, and bring the world back into the stone age:

Al Queda
Iran
Any radical Islamist - Jihadist,Hezbolla, mujahideen, Taliban

Next on the list are those that would help these crazies:
Saddam
North Korea

Ken
Then there's Iran's dictator, "mucky-mud a dam a jihaad".
And don't forget ALrueters, or the staff of ALnewyorktimes
 

txswinner

Banned
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
2,326
Re: Lost

No way 12 footer, I am not against Ken, even when he disagrees with me and says something stupid.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Lost

"says something stupid."

How, pray tell, is this not a personal attack if "He just doesn't understand." is out of line?

You (and a few others) and I (and a few others)understand a lot of things differently, TXS. If I say that you don't understand my point of view it has ZERO to do with my being a moderator. It does not make you a victim of anything.

I demand the right to be human and to express my opinions in a civil manner and I expect the same of you and your fellow JB bashers.
 

PW2

Commander
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Apr 21, 2004
Messages
2,719
Re: Lost

I have no doubt Jill Carroll is correct, and probably a majority of Iraqis, Sunni, Shiites, or whatever, probably hate Americans.

We would hate an occupying force if one was in this country dictating terms to us. Unless we are planning to kill everyone there and make Iraq the 52nd state, then it is time to redeploy and fight the real extremists.
 

Plainsman

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
4,062
Re: Lost

PW2 said:
Just as in Viet Nam, this has to be won politically, and economically, and culturally, and any other way you can think of, but not militarily.

Then


There is no military solution to this. It is only political.

And then

We need to put together elite teams of Rangers or the like, technological stuff like satellites and drones and whatever else we can come up with intelligence wise--and find and destroy the extremists one cell at a time, and one leader at a time.

You mean like the Patriot Act, wiretapping, things that were/are working that the Libs hate?

One more
Unless we are planning to kill everyone there and make Iraq the 52nd state, then it is time to redeploy and fight the real extremists.

So in one breath it has to be political and not military, but in the next, it's use the military. Which one is it?
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Lost

PW2,

The only problem with your comparison is that you must assume that we are morally equal. I have no problem saying that in general, Americans are morally superior to the evil factions that are trying to destroy/dominate Iraq. We'd leave in a heartbeat if they weren't trying to kill eachother . . . never mind what they want to do to us while we are there. Kinda feels like setting down a mousetrap to me. If you can set it down without it tripping, then you can walk away . . .
 
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