Help an Aussie to understand......

[1730V]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

I think it was PW2 that said that 11,000 deaths is not enough to get anyones attention. Seeing that there are almost 200 million in this country it is statistically invalid. So is the over one million babies we murder every year in the name of convenience.

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Why can't I have a bazooka?

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

If the intruder is not physically in your house, you can't pull the trigger. Front yard isn't close enough. Neither is your detached garage or tool shed. The intruder must also be facing you, i.e. can't shoot them in the back. The thing to remember is that you must prove that they posed a physical threat to you and your family.

Not here in Texas. After dark you can shoot ANYONE in your yard. You will not be held criminally liable for it, civil maybe, but not criminal.<br /><br /><br />

That 10 to 20 foot range depends on what weapon they have as well. If they are 20 feet with a knife, you obviously are not at a threat.<br />

Due to my training I know this to be false also. I didn't beleive a man 20 feet away could be a threat, even without a weapon. Our instructor SHOWED us he was a threat. Using non firing guns no one in class could racka round in a 12 gauge OR unholster a sidearm before he was touching us. Try it.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Peter, I know statistics can be used both ways depending on how a person approaches the subject. Their are spikes an troughs in the figures for varying reason but the overall firearm crime rate has and is dropping. For instance: kidnapping is steadily increasing, this can arguably be associated with the proportional increase of aisan migration to Australia and associated gangs, kidnapping seems to be their thing.<br /><br />Robbery using a knife has increased for obvious reasons, a druged out loser can't get his hands on a gun. <br /><br />Plenty of web sites giving both sides of the story, heres one:<br /><br /> http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/acfbfd6ba9eb3689ca256cae001052a7?OpenDocument <br /><br />Aldo

 

[achris]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Maybe we have digressed from my original question. <br /><br />I'm not for one moment suggesting that you change the constitution and try to remove guns from your society, it's too ingrained. And I'm not saying that it's wrong. I am not challenging your right to bear arms, I'm just asking why you do. Aside from 'because we can' and 'for self defence', why would any sane person want to be in possession of such a dangerous instrument?<br /><br />For the poster who asked if I have ever pinged at some soda cans? Yes I have. My ex brother-in-law lives in Utah. My (ex)wife and I visited about 10 years ago and we 'played' with .22, 303, black powder pistols and a shotgun. Guess what my reaction was... 'And?....' Wonderful, the soda cans fell down, what next? No, I didn't find any 'fun' in it. It was pointless and childish.... And to answer the next obvious question 'Yes I do know how to have fun' <br /><br />So, back to the beginning. Please, no more on the rights and 2nd amendment, I'm not agruing about those, just why you do it (aside from 'because everybody else does'). <br /><br />Chris............

 

[1730V]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

achris,<br /><br />Just because you saw no fun or interest in the operation of firearms does not mean others do not. Some people think SCUBA diving is stupid and dangerous.<br /><br />I find it offensive for you to suggest that people with an interest in firearms are "childish".<br />That is very elitist of you.<br /><br />Stay where you are. You don't have to come back to this heathen country.

 

[achris]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

1730V,<br /><br />SCUBA diving doesn't endanger other people! (As the carrying of firearms does). Very few police officers in this country approach a car think "I wonder if I'm going to be shot today?" And I don't argue with people about diving or try to convince them that it's good. But I do try and understand others view points, the whole objective of this thread.<br /><br />Your reaction was very childish. Along the lines of "If you don't play by my rules I'll take the ball away." Just grow up!<br /><br />Chris.........

 

[1730V]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Firearms are not dangerous. People are dangerous.<br />Criticizing something you do not understand is dangerous.<br /><br />The chances of an American citizen being shot are far less than getting hit by lightning or winning the lottery. Having to worry about getting shot is a false argument.<br /><br />Law abiding citizens do not go around shooting each other. A police officer gets shot by a crook, not law abiding citizens. Those crooks are not carrying legally obtained firearms. The crooks in Austraila don't carry legally obtained firearms either. Just because they are "illegal" doesn't mean they don't exist-dream on.<br /><br />I am not trying to convince anyone that firearm collecting, operating or ownership is good. It is just something that many enjoy. You are obviously trying to convince us that it is bad for your own reasons, whatever they are. We don't agree.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

posted by PW2;<br />

the constitutional argument simply doesn't hold water.........<br /> Only it will be written by people not that know and understand the sporting use of guns, and who could implement reasonable and rations rules now, but rather by those that hate all guns, and then we really will have something to complain about.

As I said before, compromise and the Constitution get very little respect from the left. <br /><br />again a PW2 quote;<br />

We like to live in fear here, we like to elect people that tell us what to fear next, and we like to blame someone, anyone else for our fear.<br />

That's a lie PW. Even if it were partially true, it isn't enjoyed or liked. <br />Are you going to join in honest debate, or are you here to just to cause hash and trash? <br /><br />posted by achris;<br />

Your forefathers added the second amendment because of a perceived threat internally (Indians) and externally (British). Neither of these threats are valid now.

It's so obvious that individualism is such a minor concern to you. You achris, Dunaruna, PW2 read several times here about it. Yet it's a minor issue to you, not even worthy of reply.<br />This country , it's Constitution supports and relys on it so much. Large populations here live by it and defend it to the death, yet it isn't worth of your respect or agknowledgement. <br /><br />Way back at the beginning of this thread Boomyal told you achris your mind wouldn't be changed. And what was to be a sincere plea to understand has proven to be an arguement in disguise.<br />Purposeful exchange to help you understand was given. An offer to further assist you was given. Direct sources and links were given. All to help you achris.<br />Instead of using the information and reading it in good faith, you chose to deviate from debate, and argue.<br />So typical in discussions of this type is where one side offers indisputable truth, logic and arguement. Then the other side completely ignores the information, facts and arguement, and continues on with a simplistic line of arguement.<br /><br />Ignore the obvious, overstate the simplistic, round and round we go. No honest debate, nothing learned, nothing gained.<br />By your own example and as evidenced, your post is a troll. Facts are secondary and your goal was to argue.<br />Shame on you guys. From a law abiding, responsible, hard working American INDIVIDUAL, with a target placed by your kind on my back.<br />Shame on you guys. <br /><br />I'm backing away now........creating a defenceable space.........thick skulls that shroud minds that value emotion over logic, law and understanding........are assaulting my way of life, rights and individualism..........

 

[achris]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

posted by Skinnywater<br />

It's so obvious that individualism is such a minor concern to you

What is individualist about everybody owning a gun? I'd call it conformist. <br /><br />Most the the 'assistance' given to me was by way of defending your constitution, which I was not challenging. I am not questioning your rights and beliefs.<br /><br />Have a think about this. If, when the constitution as written, the right to bear arms was not included and gun control was enforced, how would your society look today? Much like England, New Zealand and, dare I say it, Australia. Please explain to me why the society I live in is so wrong in your eyes.<br /><br />Chris..........

 

[achris]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Poster by 1730V<br /><br />

Firearms are not dangerous. People are dangerous

People are more dangerous with a firearm.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Originally posted by achris:<br /> Poster by 1730V<br /><br />

Firearms are not dangerous. People are dangerous

People are more dangerous with a firearm.

Truer words were never spoke, Achris. Keep arguing, I'm gettin more dangerous by the minute.<br /> <br /><br />

 

[achris]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

I have no arguement with the fact that firearms are not dangerous. I haven't heard of a single incident of a gun getting angry at a fellow gun and shotting it up. <br /><br />All I'm asking is why make it easier for people with a problem to do so much more damage.<br /><br />Edit : Nice edit Boomyal..... Think it's time to change my avatar.....

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Originally posted by achris:<br /> I have no arguement with the fact that firearms are not dangerous. I haven't heard of a single incident of a gun getting angry at a fellow gun and shotting it up.

Yer just livin in the wrong place, Chris. Over here, in Americer, inanimate object are very dangerous. Just read our newspapers and listen to our news broadcasts. You'll see how SUV's (much reviled by the liberals) run over people.<br /><br />Typical and common headline:<br /><br />SUV RUNS OVER PEDESTRIAN<br /><br />SUV REARENDS CAR AND TAKES OFF WITHOUT STOPPING.<br /><br />SUV, RUNS OUT OF CONTROL AND CRASHES INTO COFFEE SHOP<br /><br />etc, etc<br /><br />Never any mention of the driver of the SUV. The object of course, is to demonize the SUV. I don't know if I've ever heard a shooting incident portrayed in the same way:<br /><br />AK47 KILLS 14 AT DISCO.<br /><br />but I'm sure it's coming.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

no need Achris. it's poofed! I just couldn't resist.<br /><br />Wouldn't want to loose you any hugs due to changing your avatar.

 

[achris]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

This has been a great insight. I do have some regrets about starting it. I hope I haven't offended too many people and those who were my friends at the start are still my friends (just with different opinions). I now realize how passionate you are about the subject and will steer well clear of it in the future. <br /><br />Thank you all for sharing and taking the time to educate me. I may not agree with your views, but I will defend your right to have them. <br /><br />Chris................<br /><br />Boomyal. Put it back... It looked great.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

What is individualist about everybody owning a gun? I'd call it conformist. <br /><br />Most the the 'assistance' given to me was by way of defending your constitution, which I was not challenging. I am not questioning your rights and beliefs.<br /><br />Have a think about this. If, when the constitution as written, the right to bear arms was not included and gun control was enforced, how would your society look today? Much like England, New Zealand and, dare I say it, Australia. Please explain to me why the society I live in is so wrong in your eyes.

Facts achris, facts are important here.<br />Most people in this world aren't allowed to own a gun. So the everybody you're speaking of is abstract to the arguement.<br />Individualism doesn't mean anyone who owns a gun. Individualism means people chose to own or not to own a gun. Individualism means individual choice and the responsibility and respect that goes with it. <br /><br />The "assistance" given in regards to the Federalist Papers was much more then defending The Constitution. It was more accurately to inject far more complexity, reasoning and deep sensibility then what anyone here is capable of doing.<br />If you had taken the time to examine and understand this reasoning, 97% of your arguements, comments and absence of understanding would be satisfied.<br />The problems here in the US isn't caused by following the words and advice of our founders. It's the deviation of those principals that have caused the problems.<br /><br />The society you live in isn't relevant to this conversation. It's none of my business how you and yours live. If your happy with it, then certainly by all means live it the way you see fit.<br />This is my honest and sincere wish to you. It is the ultimate form of respect to you.<br />I only wish to have the same from you in return. Your problem is more of one that has a problem with the way I choose to live my life, lawful, responsible and respectful.<br />This was a major point I was trying to make. If I wasn't able to convince you of this intention then you understanding the Federalist Papers would.

 

[achris]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Skinnywater,<br /><br />I guess it comes down to this<br /><br />I live in a gunless society and find it hard to understand why anyone would want to live with the dangers associated with a gunned up society,<br /><br />and you live in a gunned up society and find it difficult to understand why anyone would want to live with the danger of not having a gun.<br /><br />Q.E.D. We agree to disagree.<br /><br />Chris..........

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Originally posted by achris:<br /> Boomyal. Put it back... It looked great.

Naw, Acrhris. I had my fun doin it but I wouldn't want to be branded a Cowboy. Yahoo!<br /><br />Maybe it's time to talk about kangaroos or dingos or somethin like that. I think we beat each other up pretty good on this issue. Methinks we're not goin anywhere with this. I guess we're all still standing though.

 

[achris]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

here, here......