Help an Aussie to understand......

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Banning all guns would not have helped in this case, they used baseball bats:<br /><br /> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&e=5&u=/ap/20040809/ap_on_re_us/bodies_found <br /><br />Simply banning guns wont work, that will just keep the guns out of honest peoples hands. They only way you could do it would be to destroy all guns and gun factories worldwide. That s not going to happen.<br /><br />Ken

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Originally posted by Dunaruna<br />

Timeout ref. Hey boomyal, how can you answer a post that I posted one minute later?

Now will you listen to my arguements?

 

[samagee]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

achris, we are not allowed to carry our firearms on planes.

 

[one more cast]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

achris, I like guns, you like scuba diving. You don't like guns and I don't like scuba diving. Its as simple as that.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Originally posted by achris:<br /><br />Your forefathers added the second amendment because of a perceived threat internally (Indians) and externally (British). Neither of these threats are valid now. <br /><br />

If this were true, it would easily apply to the gangs, drug dealers, and organized crime leaders of today. <br /><br />But it is not true. The second amendment was added to ensure our freedom from the gov't, should it fall into opressive hands and follow the course of the European rulers that our ancestors had fled.

 

[SCO]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Achris, this didn't become an issue of any magnitude till post 60's. Given that there is some merit to the 2nd ammendment, we traditionally have had to take care of ourselves and most of us I bet who grew up in or before the 60's were used to guns, and did not consider them to be anything frightening or abnormal. People left their doors unlocked in those days and why not. Would you wank into a bear cave? Maybe if the bear had been detoothed and declawed. Those of us that still think it will be too late to save ourselves or family if we have to depend on the Columbine police force to save us, want to RETAIN the right to defend ourselves. If I am not willing to fight for my and my family's lives, why would I expect a police officer to with a family of his own. No dis to Police, as bravery is what makes most of them outstanding people. THose that are afraid of guns and know that they can't take care of themselves and have placed themselves in dependance on the Government to save them as the need arises think that statistically if the average joe has a gun thay are not as safe. THere are a lot more of those people around since the beginning of the breakup of the family in the 60's, people like RosieO that hire bodyguards with guns. There is a linkage I think with antigun/socialism gun/smallGovernment. Some of us are just not quiet ready stand in long lines, do as we're told, spread em and say yes sir 100 times a day, and go along with the "you're selfish" mentality that liberals/socialists have towards those that don't agree with them as they wrest self reliance from those that still believe in that credo .

 

[dogsdad]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Originally posted by achris:<br />

Just an observation. It appears that Australians are just more comfortable with a lot of forms of regulation that Americans, todate, would not stand for.

Are you kidding! Your government has far more control over you than you are aware.... A few years back our government tried to bring in the equivalent of your Social Security number, called the Australia Card. The public outcry was astounding and the idea was summarily thrown out. The people voiced their opinion and the government listened. Your Social Security number is how your government knows where you live, where you work, how much you earn, who your doctor is, when you were last sick, how many children you have, your wife's name, all your details on ownership of cars, houses, trucks, boats.... Get the picture? What freedoms do you have that the government doesn't know about?<br /><br />Chris...........<br /><br />Dunaruna : message received and very well understood.

I think Chris has a point here! I, for one, resent the Social Security concept as being invasive and a huge waste of money.<br /><br />Chris, I take it that you have never fired a gun before. If you can get someone to take you out and plink some soda cans with a .22, chances are about 50 to 1 you will really enjoy it. It's really a hoot!<br /><br /><br />-dd-

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Our constitution does not have any reference in regard to the right to bear arms but thats not a bad thing when you view this subject with our culture and lifestyle in mind. Our history has never throw us a challenge that has required us to arm ourselves on our own soil.<br />

Must not be anything worth fighting for there huh?

 

[SCO]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Dunaruna:"Our constitution does not have any reference in regard to the right to bear arms but thats not a bad thing when you view this subject with our culture and lifestyle in mind. Our history has never throw us a challenge that has required us to arm ourselves on our own soil."<br /><br />So we come at it from different perspectives. Fair enough. For us, the right to keep and bear arms apart from the Government meant freedom itself since England was trying to deprive us of arms to quell revolution. On the frontier, you needed a gun for food and defense. The Colt six shooter allowed the Texas Rangers to tame Texas (different controversy), and the indians did kill settlers (the indian's tragedy was huge...again a different controversy to discuss in another thread). To the settlers the indian threat was more than perceived. The crime in the USA today is based on cultural disunification(thanks Democrats for telling everyone that they are being shortchanged because of racism to get yourselves in office, and the break up of the american family and rewards for single mothers to raise children w/o fathers. That was smart, take the poor and make them dependent on government for a humiliating subsistance living, then build in some added hate). There is a return to the old west where self defense is needed. If there is a war, any war, does one side win by disarming? THis debate is all about whether the individual has a right to self defense. We do and have had that right. Should we be stripped of that right? What do you think Southern hemisphere friends?

 

[1994lundminnow]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Some advice for those of us that use our guns to protect our homes.<br /><br />First: Pistols and Rifles ("Assault" or not) make for lousy "protection". Especially if you live in the city or suburbs where your neighbors are fairly close. As most of you know, bullets don't neccessarily "stop" when they hit something. Sheet rock inside of a house wont even slow a bullet down. Something to think about. Accidents are rare, but its not really worth the risk. My gun of choice is a pump action 12 gauge. I figure, just the sound of me loading a shell into the chamber will suffice in turning an intruder around 180 degrees. Second, a shot will definately hit the target, even in the dark. Third, chances of that shot being lethal is low, chances of it being effective to stop the intruder, very high. Most importantly, the shot will not travel through any walls to hit my neighbors house, or my family on the inside. <br /><br />Second thing to keep in mind is the law. What rights do you have to protect yourself? Some quick rules of engagement. If the intruder is not physically in your house, you can't pull the trigger. Front yard isn't close enough. Neither is your detached garage or tool shed. The intruder must also be facing you, i.e. can't shoot them in the back. The thing to remember is that you must prove that they posed a physical threat to you and your family. If they are in your garage or in your front yard, or if they have their back to you, they do not pose a physical threat to you. The law can argue that the intruder was trying to leave if they are not facing you. <br /><br />You have the right to protect yourself and your family, not your possessions. You can't shoot a guy in the back as he rides off with your Harley.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

for me, I prefer a system that makes individuals<br />responsible for their actions rather than a gov't<br />mandate. mis-use a gun, car, etc., there is a real<br />price to pay even if u work on wallstreet and u r<br />a model citizen....

 

[PW2]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Like I said, fear. We like to be afraid.<br /><br />Oh, and by the way, the constitutional argument simply doesn't hold water, as we have lots of restrictions on gun ownership in various local districts of the country, all perfectly legal.<br /><br />We simply have not had enough deaths yet--apparently 11,000 or so a year is not enough. We have not killed enough, or at least the right ones, to get anyone's attention. Once we reach that threshold, whatever that is, then we will get gun control. Only it will be written by people not that know and understand the sporting use of guns, and who could implement reasonable and rations rules now, but rather by those that hate all guns, and then we really will have something to complain about.

 

[1994lundminnow]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

achris,<br /><br />My wife is from England, and it took her some time to warm to the idea that a loaded shot gun will be in the house at all times. At first she hated the thought of a gun in the house. Now she likes it, it makes her feel safe. And sometimes just "feeling" safe is worth a lot, be it a false sense of security or not. <br /><br />Think of it this way: If you were a bad guy, and you knew that the house to your left belonged to a gun owner, and the house to your right didn't. Which one would you break into? I like to keep them guessing. The gun in my house also protects my neighbor, because that's something that an intruder is going to have to consider, and its an effective deterrent. <br /><br />Like that ol' joke about the 2 guys in the forest that come across a bear... I don't have to run faster than the bear, I just have to run faster than you.

 

[samagee]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Even more rules of engagement. They teach you in the conceal carry class to be moving away from the person that is trying to kill you. You are not carrying to have a shoot out old west style. Also, always remember that you are shooting to remove the threat not kill it. You do not have to give a warning though. If it apears that they are with in 10 to 20 feet and present a clear life threat, you can shoot. That 10 to 20 foot range depends on what weapon they have as well. If they are 20 feet with a knife, you obviously are not at a threat.<br /><br />In martial arts, same concept. You have to be trying to get away from your attacker. You can NEVER give them the beating they desearve. You can only hit them as much as it takes to stop them, or for you to get away. <br /><br />It sucks, but that's the way it is. Anything else is excessive force.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Originally posted by mellowyellow:<br /> for me, I prefer a system that makes individuals<br />responsible for their actions rather than a gov't<br />mandate. mis-use a gun, car, etc., there is a real<br />price to pay even if u work on wallstreet and u r<br />a model citizen....

We got the laws, MY. Just hasn't seemed to be any interest in enforcing them. If you don't enforce them, they don't work, if they don't work you need to pass some new laws and restrictions aimed at the law abiding citizen. Isn't that the way it is???

 

[aspeck]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

achris, You asked about the fun of sending a piece of lead down a hollow tube. The same thing could be said about chasing a little white ball that is hit with a club (Golf), or kicking a ball around a field and into a net, or ... Different strokes for different folks, and it is all about what we grew up learning to enjoy and appreciate.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

PW is close, but the correct word is ...<br />"ACCOUNTABILITY"<br />we all should be held accountable.

 

[aspeck]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

Amen MY!

 

[Peter J Fraser]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

WOW what a hornets nest.<br />The figures that I have seen here in NZ certainly do not agree with what you say Aldo as I was reading a magazine from 1998 at my surgeons rooms only last Friday that was quoting the actual increase in gun related crime in Aust.<br /><br />However one fact remains indesputable; Whatever restrictions are put on any law abiding gun owners the criminals dont care and wont register their firearms will they?<br /><br />Peter

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Help an Aussie to understand......

I've heard that denial before too, peterf. However the stats I've seen appear to be very reliable. Don't remember the particulars but actual numbers and sources were given.