Are all boaters republican?

[henlopen]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

"And yet, they are predominantly Republican....Hmmm....<br />I think if conservatives were half the greedy, money-grubbing, enemies to the environment that liberals make them out to be, the Everglades project would not exist. It makes me wonder just how many people are still sucked-into the stereotypical images that have been debunked for years ---on both sides."

 

[henlopen]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

Hold about the Everglades. In the first place, the courts ordered a settlement in 1992, had nothing to do with Republicans,. Second, in 2003, representatives of the sugar industry successfully petitioned the state Bush administration to pass a new law amending the Everglades Forever Act, the cornerstone of Everglades water quality protection. The anti-Everglades law delays the planned cleanup of sugar’s phosphorous pollution by 10 years or more. The industry mounted a massive disinformation campaign, spending millions of dollars and hiring 40 lobbyists. David Struhs, Jeb Bush’s key environmental lieutenant, clearly misled the Florida legislature when he claimed the support of federal agencies for the bill. Despite massive protests by environmental groups, editorials of protest in almost every Florida newspaper, and thousands of phone calls, cards, letters and petitions huge numbers from boaters, Governor Bush signed the bill into law. The Environmental Resource Commission (ERC) appointed by Governor Bush also approved regulations benefiting the sugar industry. So, the Republicans have done everything they can in Florida to turn the glades into a polluted mess. Phosphorus creates massive amounts of algae which impacts fishing seriously besides making boating a mess.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

I can see Kerry running down to Florida now talking about how the Bush's put all the sugar farmers out of business and lamenting all the lost jobs.... Oh, try to balance the needs of both? Ok, I can see him run down there and accuse them of raping the environment... on and on it goes...

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

... on and on it goes...<br />

Now I thought real hard how I'd be able to stay on topic, and it came to me. <br /><br />There is a distinct trend in this popular topic.<br /><br />It's obvious there are more Republicans that participate in Dockside Chat.<br />And I'm hearing loud and clear that the sun doesn't set on their party.<br /><br />A few Democrats are mixed in to remind us of all the "divine intervention" their party has contributed.<br /><br />I haven't taken an actual count, but their seems to be a fair chunk of this group that realize both party's have stunk up the place a bit.<br /> I'm betting we have the nicer boats and catch more fish. <br /><br /> http://www.opensecrets.org/pubs/cashingin_sugar/sugar02.html <br /><br /> http://www.taxpayer.net/TCS/wastebasket/environment/8-3-00.htm <br /><br />I sure wish you Republicans and Democrats would ask your guys to quit messing it up for the rest of US.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

Come on now SW, 3 Supreme Court judges are set to retire in the next 4 years. Who do you want picking those replacements? And, if that party does not have 60 votes in the Senate any appointment will be blocked.<br /><br />Sure they both S*ck but the Dems REALLY S*CK and in this life, if you want to make a difference, you have to pick a team and get in the game or you're irrelevant. You know what you find in the middle of the road right? Road kill <br /><br />Actually I am a registered Independent but that's going to change soon and did for all practical purposes on 911. I can no longer sit back and throw stones when so much is at stake...<br /><br />You know, Repubs are afraid to give an inch becuase when they do they get it shoved down their throat by the Dems and the media.

 

[Skinnywater]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

I'm not roadkill Ralph, I'm on a different road.<br /> <br />The major problem with the American political party system is that modern political party's main goal has changed. <br /><br />These days, the two party's have both evolved to seek power through the election of their candidates as the primary and almost exclusive goal. <br /><br />In this sense the party's attempt to satisfy the people is a means to the ends of their<br />candidates getting elected, when in a true representative democracy satisfying the people's needs and interests are the ends. <br /> <br />By seeking electoral victory as their main goal, the party's take actions that may not be in the best interests of the nation or their individual<br />constituencies.<br /><br />Because of these facts what your asking of me is difficult because of my own personal principals regarding our basic government.<br /><br />On the other hand, my principals would NEVER allow me to be part in cause of a Kerry Presidency....... never!<br /><br />I'll conclude by agreeing that this is a crossroads election for all of us.<br />A Bush mandate (my prediction is a landslide)would impune the liberal cause and put the rest of the world on notice. This time by the citizens voice.<br /><br />Thanks for the opportunity to participate in another interesting topic.

 

[dogsdad]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

I agree with you about 98%, Skinnywater. In my opinion, there are way too many lawyers out there playing politician, and getting elected seems to be the only object.<br /><br />We sure could use a few genuine statesmen these days.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

Skinny, let me put it another way. Ultimately what makes you one or the other is the way you vote even if you occasionally split a ticket. <br /><br />If you want to influence the direction of either group you need to be a member. If you want to influence policy it helps to be a member of the group in the majority. Changing either group or broad policy from the outside is very difficult unless there is a crisis of some sort or you have a lot of money. So to me, it has become a matter of which group is the closest fit and therefore, where am I likely to succeed.<br /><br />The reason both groups are they way they are is people like us, people who care and could make a real difference, have let these people take over the parties. I just think the "smart" way to get it back is from within. It is especially true in a nation where so few people even take the time to vote. Just food for thought.

 

[dick]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

It's obvious there are more Republicans that participate in Dockside Chat.<br />And I'm hearing loud and clear that the sun doesn't set on their party

You could say alot more.<br />I will say it makes for some very entertaining views on Bush and the puppet master Cheney .

 

[lakelivin]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

Originally posted by Skinnywater:<br /> The major problem with the American political party system is that modern political party's main goal has changed. <br /><br />These days, the two party's have both evolved to seek power through the election of their candidates as the primary and almost exclusive goal. <br /><br />In this sense the party's attempt to satisfy the people is a means to the ends of their<br />candidates getting elected, when in a true representative democracy satisfying the people's needs and interests are the ends. <br /> <br />By seeking electoral victory as their main goal, the party's take actions that may not be in the best interests of the nation or their individual<br />constituencies.<br />

Couldn't agree more with Skinnywater.<br /><br />I think it's critical that at some point in the near future for the American public to identify and elect political figures who are patriots as much as politicians. Perhaps the press might take a more effective lead towards this end. <br /><br />As far as individuals, please consider the state of our political system in general. And consider ways that you might help to transform it for the better. Watch out for the bulls**t tactics so common to the current system (especially within your own party!) and let the candidates know that not only do you not appreciate it, but that you view it as a personal integrity issue which will factor into your final voting decision. Doesn't mean that you will necessarily change your vote, but don't tell them that. Only when the parties/ candidates realize that a significant proportion of their constituents are paying attention will we stand a chance of seing any change.<br /><br />Ralph, thanks for your comment about choosing between the lesser of two evils and then trying to make changes from within (seriously). I really needed a reminder of the need for balance between pragmatism and idealism. But my appreciation for the observation is more on a personal level. (I've had a few instances where retrospectively it's clear that due to corporate politics I would have been much better off joining initiatives I recognized from the start as being misguided rather than avoiding them and spending my efforts and energies elsewhere, even if I did achieve some positive results.) I had a boss who once told me that many people will forgive you much more easily for being wrong than for being right, and I've seen more truth in that than I'd like. <br /><br />But given Skinnywater's observation about power, party objectives, and the current state of our political system I dont think it's realistic to belive such an approach by the typical voter can make any difference at all. Especially in an administration like the Bush one, which I believe some fairly objective sources have identified as being one of the most closed in recent history. If that approach is going to work it's going to have to come from much higher levels than the individual voter (I see Colin Powell as being a perfect example).<br /><br />Absolutely people need to vote and participate. But I for one think we're approaching a point where strategically 'throwing rocks' may not only be ok but neccessary. Note that I DON'T mean at the opposition candidate (which would be comletely counter to my point), nor in the literal sense (don't want to get on some Patriot Act revolutionary suspect watch list, lol).

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

Back to the original question...Are All Boaters Republican?<br /><br />I am not a Republican. I am not a Democrat. I prefer to use my own brain when making decisions rather than allowing any one political party dictate my choices to me. I have views on some issues that are conservative. I have views on some issues that are liberal. I never vote a straight party ticket. There are good choices and bad choices for any elected office, and being Democrat or Republican doesn't make Good or Bad automatic for any one of them. I vote for the person and not for the party. If I do not know about either person running for any specific office, I leave that part of the ballot unmarked. For that reason, I feel the option of voting a straight party ticket with a single checkmark is reserved for the Lazy. If you want to go thru and put a check mark based on whether that person is Democrat or Republican, that is your right. But I think the Straight Party option should be eliminated from the ballot.<br /><br />Finally, I would like to make one last comment about the Electoral College. The slight majority of citizens of a large state with many electoral votes will overrule the vast majority of citizens of three small states with few electoral votes. That's how somebody that loses the popular vote can win the election. (Okay, that's confusing. Say Candidate A wins Big State (10 EC votes) by 1 vote. All 10 of the electoral votes go to Candidate A. Even if Candidate A gets no votes in three Small States (3 EC votes each), Candidate A wins. You'll never convince me that that's fair.) In every other elected office, the majority rules. The Presidency should be no exception!<br /><br />Hanging Chads and Recounts don't matter. Al Gore still won the Popular vote regardless. I don't know if he would have been a good or bad president. I do know that the dufus that ended-up in the White House is a Bad president. That's why I'm going to vote for Kerry. He might end-up being a bad president too , but I already have Junior's track record to look at and not only does it not impress me, it Scares me!

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

WBW, there is only one thing that should scare you and that is these terrorists getting their hands on Nukes. If they do they will use them against us. If they had them on 911 they would have used them. They have no problem slaughtering innocent children in school and would have less of a problem taking out any and all US cities. It does not matter what US policy is or who is in the White House. They hate us and want us all dead. They will not be appeased. We will not reach an accommodation with them. If you don't believe me just read NYT liberal columnist Tom Friedman's book "Longitudes and Attitudes : The World in the Age of Terrorism" What you learn is they hate us because they feel inferior. Their civilization is falling farther behind and they blame us. Just read UBLs statements and you'll see that clearly. <br /><br />Now, all you have to do is ask yourself who is most likely to use preemptive force to prevent that from happening even w/o perfect information? Who do the terrorists fear more? Who would UBL vote for if he had a chance?

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

Originally posted by WillyBWright:<br /> You'll never convince me that that's fair.) In every other elected office, the majority rules. The Presidency should be no exception!

Ahhh, once again, shall we say, you are showing your lack of aaaaaaa knowledge. Whether you realize it or not, you live in a Republic, not a democracy. In this Republic, the States elect the Federal leader. The States decide how to apportion the popular votes of it's citizens.<br /><br />This was set up this way for a very good reason and that was to keep unknowledgeable people from having too much influence.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

OUCH!

 

[unixgeek13]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

Actually, this is almost on topic...<br /><br />Have any of you thought about how the "all or nothing states" do not really reflect the original intention of the Electoral College? It seems to me that Electors should be parsed out by the percentage of the popular vote in their given state.<br /><br />Now I say this without having done any fact checking to see who would have benefitted from all states parsing Electors by percentage of popular vote, so I feel that I am justly stating an opinion that does not imply "Elephant" or "Jackass" thinking!<br /><br />I have gotten myself in a bit of trouble in a couple of past political posts, and it's only been in the past 12 to 24 hours that I have really come to grips with this... but here goes:<br /><br />I do not respect the avoidance of real military service (re: Bush supposedly patrolling the volatile Mexico-Texas border). <br /><br />I do not respect a man who carries an 8mm camera into combat for his own highlight reels (but at least he was in Vietnam). <br /><br />I don't really like the way the 2000 election went down. <br /><br />I don't really like Bush or Kerry, but given everything I've seen, it looks like it's gotta be Bush for 4 more years. The corker for me was Kerry saying that all of our troops would be home from Iraq in the first year of his administration.<br /><br />This isn't a war that anybody ever wins. When you think you won and go home, they start again. Terrorists are the people that always have to be kept down to prevent the spread. You can't just say "they'll all be home". The damned terrorists would come right here with the troops!<br /><br />So, OK... let me have it... I'm voting for Bush.<br /><br />I'm hoping for a real and substantial candidate in 2008. Somebody I can really feel good about getting behind and supporting.<br /><br />Steve Martin once did a bit on SNL that I'm going to change just a bit...<br /><br />"What I Believe..."<br /><br />"I believe that John Kerry can make this country what it once was:<br /><br />-<br />-<br />-<br />-<br />-<br />-<br />-<br />-<br />-<br />-<br />--<br />A huge arctic region, covered with ICE!"<br /><br /><br />The only question I want to hear coming from John Kerry's mouth at his place of employment in January is: "do you want fries with that?"<br /><br />later everybody!

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

This isn't a war that anybody ever wins. When you think you won and go home, they start again. Terrorists are the people that always have to be kept down to prevent the spread. You can't just say "they'll all be home". The damned terrorists would come right here with the troops!

Well said and this is really what it comes down to. Like former NYC mayor Ed Koch says, "this issue trumps all and Kerry and the Dems just don't have the stomach for it." Anybody who knows him knows he is die-hard social liberal and has never voted for a Republican in his life. But sometimes the times call for somebody like GW...

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

Originally posted by unixgeek13:<br /> Have any of you thought about how the "all or nothing states" do not really reflect the original intention of the Electoral College? It seems to me that Electors should be parsed out by the percentage of the popular vote in their given state.

The States have that option, unixgeek13. It's is totally up to the citizenry of each State. The Federal G'ment does, rightfully, not have the authority to dictate how the States utilize their voting power. That would be an extraordinary conflict of interest. If you like that idea and your state does not apportion it's votes, start a campaign. (btw, overwhelming majority of States do not.)

 

[BinLurkin]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

It sure seems like we are. We will sell our country down the drain if it puts .25 cents in our pocket. Example the Bush tax cut. We went from a 250 billion surplus to an almost $500 billion defecit as soon as he took office. Now we don't have the money to prosecute the war. We are shutting down fire houses here & opening them in Iraq. That's where the money is going now. Actually it's borrowed money. China & Japan are finacing our debt service. We are bankrupt, how do you think that looks oversees? Go ahead & vote your sorry pocket book. Just don't call yourself a patriot. The Democrats won't sell this country down the drain for a lousy .25 cents in their pockets. But the Relpublicans will, huh? They have done it every time so far. And they think they are the patriots?

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

We are shutting down fire houses here & opening them in Iraq.

Now that's original...<br /><br />Here is a fact for you BL - as a percentage of GDP this deficit doesn't even rank in the top 15 (it;s 17th) but whatever you do, don't try to parse the truth for yourself... <br /><br />

The Democrats won't sell this country down the drain for a lousy .25 cents in their pockets.

No they just sell out the men in the field in a time of war for political gain. They just accuse them all of being war criminals and cause them to suffer greater in the hands of the enemy. But clearly money is more important to you. Try to find 5 Vietnam POWs that support Kerry...

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Are all boaters republican?

I think I can help a little with one. I believe some obscure former POW calls John Kerry his friend. Let me see now, what was his name again? Uh, John something. John McSomething. Oh yeah! John McCain.<br /><br />In most states, it's all or nothing. Like Florida. Some are proporional. And with a few, proportional is optional.