Americans please.

[12Footer]

Re: Americans please.

It fealt great to " air it out" with such a cordial group. Y'all could show "meet the Press" q thing or two on how to conduct a debate.

 

[butlp]

Re: Americans please.

Peterfishbuster<br />I don't think you should brandish Canadians as traitors or turncoats just because a handful of Tree Huggers have decided to put them selves at risk. I am sure there are just as many whako's on your side of the boarder!<br /><br />Your last comment is "real neighbourly" if I or any other Canadian had made that same statement on this board, "screw it bomb them (USA) anyway" they would be Tarred and Feathered and accused of Flaming. <br /><br />I think you owe Canada an apology.

 

[DJ]

Re: Americans please.

Lost Canadian,<br /><br />You may not have read the header to my last post. I said that "I am not bashing Canadians, we have enough nuts of our own here".

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: Americans please.

There's "whackos" everywhere - plenty here in NZ - I'm just relieved nobody checked a Kiwi newspaper - you could easily find ammo against us too.<br /><br />As time moves forward, I think the concept of geographical countries is becoming less and less relevant. Our countries and governing structures were formed back in times when geographic isoloation and lack of communication made any other form of grouping unthinkable. Technology is making us into one big world community.<br /><br />At present our world community faces some big problems. <br /><br />1. We have armed and unpredictable murderers living in our neighbourhood. <br /><br />2. We have huge differences in education, religion, political and economic structures. A widening gap between the haves and the have-nots.<br /><br />3. We have too many members of our community who are not willing to do any hard work to clean the community up and fix these problems. They prefer the lazy option - but not a safe option I would add.<br /><br />Have you ever noticed that it's the undemocratic countries that tend to cause the trouble in this world?<br /><br />I think it's time the democratic countries grouped together and took a forceful approach to sorting out all the scumbag nations once and for all. We should be unashamedly pushing out dictatorships and replacing them with democracies - even if we have to control them in the early stages.<br /><br />While the UN may have done some good in the world - overall it has been a failure. The world is still far too full of poverty stricken countries, dictatorships and dangerous people.<br /><br />We owe it to our grandchildren to sort things out a lot better than they are right now.

 

[Fishbusters]

Re: Americans please.

Did not like this one so I created an addition then said screw it and rewrote the whole thing so read the next post for my reply.

 

[Fishbusters]

Re: Americans please.

Lost Canadian I said if they (folks using themselves as human shields) were to still be there (Iraq) after Canada decides to back the US then they were to be considered what I said. Personally I still stand by that even if they were from the US. Also I said if Canada does not back us and we decide to bomb (Iraq) and Canada does not like it screw them. I don't think Canada will not back the US but I KNOW they will not stand against us. I still stand by that as well as this statement: If the rest of the world decides to go against whatever we decided to do in OUR war or terrorism SCREW THEM. IF they decide to take up an embargo or even arms against them then give them the same treatment the enemy is getting.<br />As to an apology to the Canadians or any other nation in regards to my thoughts on this or anything else in support of my country it is not gonna happen. If you don't like it you don't have to read it. America has stood up for almost every nation out there and as soon as our backs are turned we get stabbed by them in one way or another yet we still help them out in time of need. I say it is time for us to quit being so nice and to take up the lines of the song "we're not gonna take it, no we ain't gonna take it. We're not gonna take it anymore."

 

[butlp]

Re: Americans please.

djohns19,<br />I sincerely apologize for missing your header and including your name in my previous post, I have since edited it.<br /><br />Peter, you're absolutely right, I don't have to read your "School Yard Bully" tactics, and I will skip any future posts as I note you seem to have a habit of bashing Canadians on this board.<br /><br />I am confident that the majority of Americans do not share your desire to flex USA muscle at it's closest neighbours and boarders, regardless of what our "flaky" governments position is.<br /><br />With an occupation in "Education" I just hope you're not a teacher and permitted to spread your views in the classroom, opinions like yours should be kept in the boiler room between the janitors.

 

[DJ]

Re: Americans please.

62_kiwi,<br /><br />Ditto your thoughts on the UN. The organization has become irrelevant.<br /><br />Lost Canadian,<br /><br />No sweat. I see you are hailing from Mexico. Boy, you've had the opportunity to view from both angles. Very interesting.

 

[Tacklewasher]

Re: Americans please.

djohns19 - thanks for the article. As I said earlier, just our group of whackos. Thanks for not holding it against the country.<br /><br />peterfishbuster - I can't see your point. Even if Canada does not help the US out in htis issue, we are still your closest neighbors and should be treated with respect. I think your out of line but I doubt many Americans look at it with your viewpoint so I'm not worried.<br /><br />Lost Canadian - in Mexico? What are you, a Senator

 

[butlp]

Re: Americans please.

Tacklewasher,<br />I wish, I'm in Mexico City and I believe all our Senators are in Cabo San Lucas, Cancun and a few in the Cayman Islands with their Bre-X friends.

 

[JB]

Re: Americans please.

Ahoy, Neighbor.<br /><br />I realize that individual Canadians speak only for themselves just as we in the US speak only for ourselves; neither on behalf of our nations.<br /><br />A very dear Canadian friend once told me that Canadians view the Canadian personalitiy as a beaver and USA as an eagle. I have no problem with that.<br /><br />We in the USA are very sensitive to being THE world superpower and to the responsibility that comes with that. Though we are viewed by much of the world as the playground bully rather than the benevolent protector of liberty that we see ourselves as, we do our best to be fair and even handed.<br /><br />Criticism by those who don't bear that responsibility comes with the territory, but the job of dealing with the consequences of apathy will also come with it. Thus we must do what we believe is just.<br /><br />We appreciate the support and assistance of all of our friends... including the other English-speaking (or mostly so) nations of the earth, but must not let them make our decisions.<br /><br />The United States of America is an experiment in government; The most successful in history, with the highest quality of life in history. We agree that it is not perfect, but why should we not agree that "our way" is the best currently available to mankind?

 

[DJ]

Re: Americans please.

Lost Cnadian,<br /><br />Are you trying to tell us that your Senators are known to take a "junket" from time to time-too!! <br /><br />I think the power goes directly to their heads.

 

[Tacklewasher]

Re: Americans please.

A Junket? Yeah, when they actually come back to Canada to do duty in the Senate.<br /><br />Our Senate is different. They are appointed (for the remainder of their lifes) by the current Government in power and have no worry about ever being forced out. Most never show up.<br /><br />The idea behind our Senate is retired politicians who have been there and done that able to offer experienced insight to the current government. Make suggestions and the sort. What we have is a political boondoggle that is a waste of money.<br /><br />So by the occassional junket, that is them coming back to do what they are paid to do.

 

[Fishbusters]

Re: Americans please.

One more time I am not bashing Canada or Canadians but I am trying to state that regardless of how other countries view what America decides to do in this matter or how they decide whether to support, stay neutral or oppose what we do America needs to have a clear stance that we don't care what anyone else thinks we are gonna do what it takes regardless. I was also trying to make the point that if you oppose the US then you just made yourself the enemy and if you think about it no country wants that. Canada just happened to be the topic of conversation and I used them and the situation that was being discussed as an example I could just as well used Mexico, Australia, Great Briton, France or almost any other country.<br />Jeez a guy tries to make a point and gets accused as bashing Canadians. I kind of have to wonder if it is that or does my patriotism and support of my countries actions scare those who have never seen a united America and how it's people feel it's enemys should be dealt with?<br />BTW Does anyone here think that Canada, Great Briton, Australia or many other nations that could be mentioned will be among those not siding with or supporting the US thought all of this?<br />To LC I am a teacher but except for events like 9/11 I usually keep things like politics, religion, race and other topics like this out of my classroom. I teach Special students all of whom have an IQ under 70 and many other social as well as personal problems to deal with. I keep my room as free of controversy and controversial topics as I can. So sometimes I may come on a little stronger on topics like this on forums like this because I keep my opinions on this stuff bottled up all day. This said if you will read and perhaps re read with an open mind you will see I never bashed Canada or Canadians I simply bashed those going over as human shields and suggested a way of thinking about those folks. Where I think things went wrong after i re read my post is I may not have termed it correctly. I still feel those people that went w/o your governments aproval should be treated as I suggested especially if Canada backs the US. If Canada does not back us that is thier choice but not our problem The folks over there are there on thier own and if Canada decideds to complain {meaning in the political arena embargo (you got our pipeline if you recall)and more harsher things}about the possible danger to it's citizens then so be it. We should however remind them and others who don't like what we decide to do of a few facts and what might happen if you tick us off.

 

[zorro1]

Re: Americans please.

First.

Who the hell cares what Sean or any other entertainer thinks. It seems to me that Sean got his start in Fast Times and somehow now we should take him as a statesman. That's crap. Celebrities shoud stick to what they are good at: Singing, Dancing, and acting like other people.

mmmmmmmm Ronald Reagan?<br />**** that makes me laugh.<br />2.

One more time I am not bashing Canada or Canadians but I am trying to state that regardless of how other countries view what America decides to do in this matter or how they decide whether to support, stay neutral or oppose what we do America needs to have a clear stance that we don't care what anyone else thinks we are gonna do what it takes regardless.

Oh dear. Seems Saddam has a brother on this planet.

 

[Fishbusters]

Re: Americans please.

The only way to fight is to fight to win. My father taught me that and I believe in not fighting when I can but when backed into it I use whatever means necessary to win/survive. Another way of looking at it in simple terms if you have no backbone then being picked on by a bully only 5' tall weighing 140# is easy.

 

[plywoody]

Re: Americans please.

I am a lucky person who is an American, but lived and worked in Canada for 10 years, and dealt directly with the Canadian government on numerous issues.<br />Between America and Canada, there are great similarities and great differences. Some systems work better the way Canada does it, and some the way America does it, and both countries cherish freedom.<br />Sadly, there is no "cookie cutter" rule of what is correct in this world. And there is room for fundamental disagreement among reasonable people (and governments).<br />As I have stated before, I have serious issues about the impending war with Iraq, and what it all means. As such, I'd like as much transparency as possible in the world community (UN?) with the specific reasons we are doing this, and what we hope to accomplish before proceeding. If there is indeed a link between Al-qaida and Saddam, I'd like to see the evidence. So far, all we have is rumor and innuendo. If Saddam has WMD, and is a threat to the US and our allies, I'd like real evidence of same.<br />I'm not saying it isn't there, but only that I have no confirmation of it.<br />I believe in protecting our security whenever possible, but I don't assume the motives of the leaders of any country are particularly pure, and as much as possible I'd like a quantifiable standard to judge actions by, and not be lead by some vague fear of what just might possibly be true.<br />We have the technology to get the evidence--If we don't present it, my hunch is that it does not exist. <br /><br />John

 

[coupedeville]

Re: Americans please.

Peterfishbuster says:<br />

regardless of how other countries view what America decides to do in this matter, or how they decide whether to support, stay neutral or oppose what we do, America needs to have a clear stance that we don't care what anyone else thinks. We are gonna do what it takes regardless. I was also trying to make the point that if you oppose the US then you just made yourself the enemy and if you think about it, no country wants that.

So, you're trying to say that if we disagree with your position, that makes us your enemy? <br />And "we don't care what anyone else thinks". This, my friend, is one of the things that does not endear the U.S. to lot of folks. America will do what it damn well pleases, and screw the rest of the world?<br />What's happening to the America we all admired? The "shining city on the hill" that the founding fathers envisioned?<br />We know you've got lots of planes and bombs and guns. And I for one am glad that America is there in the world to keep an eye on things. The world is full of nasties. But that doesn't give you the right to go around bombing people just because you don't like them. I think Saddam's a world class a-hole, but you'd better have some pretty good evidence that he's up to something before you attack.<br />Might does not neccesarily make right.<br /><br />In the words of the poet, Robbie Burns, "Oh what a gift he [God] would give us, to let us see ourselves as others do".

 

[coupedeville]

Re: Americans please.

Oh I missed this little gem from Peterfishbuster<br />

if Canada decideds to complain {meaning in the political arena embargo (you got our pipeline if you recall)and more harsher things}about the possible danger to it's citizens then so be it. We should however remind them and others who don't like what we decide to do of a few facts, and what might happen if you tick us off.

Would you care to elaborate on that last little bit? Gonna bomb us too? Put us in our place? Teach us a lesson maybe?<br />All you do when you say things like that, is to re-enforce the perception that many people have about America: That you're degenerating into a nation of bullies. All your actions are for one reason only, and that's to protect America's interests at the expense of everybody elses.<br /><br />You want to be the leader of the free world? Then you have to offer real leadership. Not just threatening to attack those who may disagree with you. With the collapse of the Soviet empire, there is an opportunity that comes along very rarely. An opportunity to make the whole world a better, and thus a safer place for everybody .<br /><br />Look up the meaning of the word "hubris".

 

[Fishbusters]

Re: Americans please.

I don't claim to know it all but who ever said that America was not a violent country from the day it REVOLTED and formed was lying. We even tried to kick our own a$$es a while back. All you have to do is look at our heroes real and in movies/TV to realize who and what we are. Our heroes are fighters but are kind and gentle until their anger is aroused much like our country. Of course I would not expect you to understand you have not had the luxury of growing up here and cannot even begin to understand what it means to be an American. America is a great leader and has done a lot for the peace process including bailing out other countries in time of need. If you look at this alone you realize sometimes peace is only achieved through war. Then again thinking about it how could you possibly understand that either never having members of your family who worked toward that goal and some who died achieving it. Of course this also means you have never had the responsibility of living in a country that every other nation calls upon in time of crisis or need to help them or have family members die doing so. You mention the Soviet Union and while perhaps you had to live with the fact that at any time the US and the USSR could decide to blow each other and the world to radioactive dust you never had to live with the fact that you are sitting in a school or church that is right next to a first strike target. Maybe you never had to learn about how to bend over and kiss yourself goodbye because the bad old Russians might just push the button. And maybe just maybe you will never understand the horror that it just might be today and the relief that was felt when that threat just simply fizzled out. So perhaps you can not understand the need to prevent anyone else from ever malevolently holding that threat over anyone else again. Perhaps you can never understand why America does the things it does or why it's people can band together and rise up to combat this threat regardless of any other countries position on the matter. So far the peaceful side of the world has always turned to America to save it's hide, to do it's dirty work and we have always risen up to the call. Now when we the ones that have become the worlds police force not through our own desire but because we were called upon to do so see a potential threat to the peace we have worked so hard to achieve everyone wants to say it is now the bullies picking on the weak. I say we are not bullies but rather the big brother you always call upon to protect you from the bullies. So now why don't you sit down shut up and let us do our job or would you prefer the alternatives, some of which I will list. <br />1) America pulling all of it's military forces back home including those that are in Europe, Asia and the like. Turning a deaf ear to the cries for help and just taking care of our own like we did at the start of WWI and you see how that worked out for everyone else and who had to finally end it. <br />2) Getting pissed off and shutting off all free trade we now have with other countries or at least those that disagree with our methods and motives. This would cause a collapse in the world's economy and perhaps start WWIII which we will not get involved in until perhaps it is too late for some. see #1 <br />3) Worst case getting really pissed off and deciding that we no longer can trust your country and yes resorting to bombing as well as other means of insuring that your country is never again a potential threat to us or the rest of the world. (Here I mean any country not just picking on Canada)<br />Yes this sounds like America the Bully but this is not America's place because if you look at things that we have done in the past you see as soon as we win a war what do we do? Rebuild your country bigger and better than before. We send food and medicine to countries that hate us even as we bomb them because we do not want the people to suffer any more than is absolutely necessary to get the job done. None of this is the work of a bully. Of course everyone calls us one any time we either get asked to help out or step up to defend the world even against itself. So I say perhaps it is time to quit playing nice and take off the gloves and once and for all do what it takes to do the job right and if that makes us the worlds bully then by God if it works I can live with that.