87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

[redneck joe]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

good luck. I got no bail money for you....

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

^
funny guy.... :lol:

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

Well its been hovering around -15C here fr the last few days, so I can only work in the boat for a few mins at a time (nerve damage in my hands and fingers, they really cant handle exposure to cold very long anymore) but I managed to clean up and expose a bit more on the starboard side.. and I think I can get a piece of wood behind the remaining glass to act as a back up/brace to screw the first new bulkhead to when I install it.. and I happen to have a few nice thick pieces of oak on hand now; I've been grabbing skids/pallets from a few places locally for the last month (as I ran out of fire wood for my shop), and this last load had a bunch of nice straight pieces, about 1"x2" by 4+ feet long... sweet! :joyous: Now, the port side I'll just have to slap a big mess of epoxy on the end of it and hope for the best, as there is no access at all, but there is just enough room to work on the starboard side for a small angle bracket. I can attach it to the aft stringer and the back up piece, and epoxy over it.. but now i need the temps to cooperate, and that's just not happening.. :cold: Its starting to get to me a bit, cause i'm running out of 'other little things' to do.. can't install and finish/trim the newly covered seats, or the radar arch panels, too cold.. cant instal the floor/hardwood/carpet till the bulkhead is repaired.. :mad-new:

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

Hey folks.. its been a while... not got much done, aside from the lower part of my bulkhead 'sort of' in place with pl, because until 2 days ago it was still too cold to do anything... But now I think this project may come to a grinding halt; Went into the boat shed yesterday, and I was prepared for the 2" glacier under the boat (it IS in my driveway, and everything is melting lately, then re-freezing at night) BUT the brown goop oozing out of the transom plug, well.. that was new to me... so I jumped in the boat and poked around in the engine bay.. pulled the dipstick and find NO oil on it.. hmm ..strange, cause I know it was almost to the full line in the fall.. a bit milky, but not like I was planing on running it like that anyway..

Oh, there it is! Found all the engine oil; in the bilge! :cold: so I couldn't tell where it was leaking from, and figure well, it cant hurt it now.. so I dumped about .5 liter of used diesel oil in to it, which is black as night, and I figure it will show me where get my 'leak' is... It sure did.. The rear main seal.. huh? hmm... what the eff is going on? Oh.... craptastic and Hitlerrific, there must be so much water in there, the oil is on top of it.. Sure thing, grab my vacuum/sucker and stick it on the dipstick tube, and I got about 2.5 liters of water before it turned black/brown with oil. Of witch there was only about a liter or so. Upon closer inspection, the oil pan gasket seams to have blown out as well, its all oily and covered in condensation where the pan meets the block, everywhere. I can only assume the water in the pan froze, displacing the oil and forcing it up and out, and who knows what damage has been done to the crank or oil pickup. I now have a worthless hulk, with a more than likely junk motor, sitting in my driveway... with nice new seats.

My last ditch is now this: fill it with fresh oil, maybe some sort of 'stop leak' type of additive, and fire it up in the next week or so to see how bad it pisses oil.. if its minor, I'll run it. If its leaking like the exxon Valdez, I'm done. I dont have any way of pulling this thing as/where it sits, and even if I did, its not worth re-building and putting back in anyway.. and with the outdated drive, its still a crap shoot... for the time and effort that would take, I would be further ahead to put a mercruiser package in, but then for that time and effort (and $$$) well, I might as well buy another boat and just scrap/part this one out.. Looks like either way I may be fubar for this season, and that just sucks. :blue:

 

[redneck joe]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

yes it does

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

Sounds like the hits just keep on coming . . . that seems to be the way with boats. I seems like the more you do, the more you find that needs to be done. Hard to say what the way out is, but best to give it some thought and then decide.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

UGH!...You guys in the North just haven't gotten a break this year...what with the weather and now this rears its ugly head...
All I can offer is good thoughts your way for an inexpensive and minimally troublesome solution...
Best of luck!

 

[greenbush future]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

A seat on the Titanic would be more safe than the unfortunate discoveries this project has offered ya. Time to consider a better suspect to rehab unless I'm missing something. This project reads like a horror story, and I feel for you, but do you really think you will feel safe on this rig? I speak from experience, and do commiserate, sure not picking on you. Sorry to hear of your motor issues

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

A seat on the Titanic would be more safe.... do you really think you will feel safe on this rig?

Well that's part of my concerns.. and why I am considering abandoning the project. The main issue there, is as it sits it's well, worthless. So i would be out any and all $ i have into it, plus end up having to pay for disposal of the hulk.. in for a penny, in for a pound.. I might be stuck with it as is, but running and/or floating i'd stand a chance of getting at least some $ out of it..

Pulled another 2L of water out today, Im thinking there was and is still some ice in the lower end of the motor so i need warmer temps to even attempt firing it.. but I don't have high hopes it will even run well, and I'm sure it will puke oil all over so it may be a moot point. 9I can only assume the expanding ice that forced out the oil could have damaged the crankA friend has a 14' long ibeam and chain falls i 'could' rig up somehow to rip the motor out, but if it comes out it NOT going back in thats for sure.. There is a possibility I could put a 454 in place, using an OMC gm bell housing and a hodge podge of Merc flywheel and OMC coupler, but again, its more work, money, time, and an unknown (to me) and outdated drive....

 

[zool]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

Awe man, that's a bummer, but better to find out early, before anymore cash is in it....im sure you could salvage some stuff, at least to cover the cost of removal.....I know that large hatch you bought may find a home

 

[Speak]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

Big D.........this is your pal from the Kawartha's Lakes down the road.. Try not to assume the worst. I would say its very unlikely that the crank has been damaged. Ice tends to push out not compress. The water/ice may just have caused the sealing lip of the rear main to become damaged. Then again that seal probably has been leaking already, you just did not know. Put a heat lamp under oil pan and warm the whole mess up. Drain out what ever oil/water is in the crank case. Fill up the crank case again and roll over the engine with out firing it up. see what happens. The rear main might just be dried out. I had water in my motor at one point too and she still runs strong. Pulling out the engine to replace the rear main seal is just time. You can do it. Dont let the thought of not being on the water this season stop you. You cant really put a completion date on these projects. When its done its gets done! If you can pull a tranny out of a mark3 Jetta on your back then you can push on with this project. You have the "mad skills" in your blood. I say push on my Bayliner Brother.

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

.... better to find out early, before anymore cash is in it....im sure you could salvage some stuff..

Ya.. well thats some of what I'm weighing out here...the bit of money and large amount of my time on the seats, I'd never get back by dumping the project now.. The cabin needs a few days work to repair/finish the bulkhead, and another week or so to re-carpet and clean up.. after which, you'd never know how bad it looks right now. :lol: Also, I know these drives and motors are getting rare, and there is a decent chance 'someone' will want/need the drive, or motor parts, exhaust, etc in the coming weeks, as I'm sure there will be plenty of cracked.. well, everything... this spring, with the winter we had.. but I've been doing some searching through local buy and sell listings for comparable boats (size/style/age) and you know what? There is NOTHING in the 27'-30' range ready to splash and go, for under about the $6000. And even at that, its an old boat, and your gona dump $$$ into it. It's written somewhere I'm sure...

So trying desperately to hold on, and stay positive, here are the options as I see things;

1: Start striping/parting and scraping the whole thing, which might net me $1000 out of the motor and drive/etc, MAYBE a bit of cash for other bits and pieces, and in the end, have NO boat. and ill defiantly be loosing money..

2: Pull the motor/drive, try to sell, continue with completion of cabin/bulkhead repairs (which I already have the materials for on hand) and start searching for a doner boat, or a good deal on a mercruiser motor/driveline. If I end up another $3-$4K into it by the time its all said and done, at least I will KNOW the condition of my entire boat inside and out, I'll have a more current power package that will hold some value if I sell it, and be in for roughly the same $$$$ I'd spend on a comparable boat, that would be completely unknown and for all I know could have similar headaches..

I like option 2 more, as it still leaves a slight chance of being on the water this year, and if not, for sure next season anyway..

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

........ If you can pull a tranny out of a mark3 Jetta on your back then you can push on with this project. You have the "mad skills" in your blood. I say push on my Bayliner Brother.

Heh... well thanks for the encouragement mr... oh, and I pulled that damn tranny TWICE btw :laugh: My main worry with this 460 is with all the water in there, are the bearing surfaces pitted now? rusted? and the pan gasket leaking all around is another bother.. just seams silly to go to all the work of pulling out the motor to change one seal/gasket and droping back in.. but I guess if she toast, shes toast, so trying to roll it over wont make it 'worse' anyway.. I can try what you suggested, but I'm not convinced all the water is out yet, as its cold enough up here it would be ice still, so once the temps stay steady above 5 or 10 I might give it a shot just to see..

 

[zool]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

I like option 2 also, but youre just at that point of no return....GWPSR was at your crossroads at the start of his BL build, I think it took about a week or so to totally make the choice....these bigger boats tend to be dirt cheap in need of lots of work, or stupid expensive, ready to go...

I made the choice to carry on, knowing I needed to replace my obsolete engines....but im a damn the torpedos kind of guy...

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

....these bigger boats tend to be dirt cheap in need of lots of work, or stupid expensive, ready to go...

I made the choice to carry on, knowing I needed to replace my obsolete engines....but im a damn the torpedos kind of guy...

:lol: ya, me too I suppose.. I DID buy this thing for $1000 with a hole in the bottom of the hull.. :facepalm: ...and yes, even needing work, the prices can be silly... saw a local add for a 1989 32' Avanti (next step/size up from my contessa) that needs ENGINES, and is a bit of a mess as well as dated, and they are asking $6000. Firm. Also saw an identical boat to mine for sale, but 'ready to run' and in decent shape, priced for quick sale due to health reasons..for $9500. I'd bet they'll get around $8000 too... Reality is, the big boats get neglected just like the small ones, but its a grand scale of 'oh my god' and 'what happened here' as well as a lot more work to bring them back to life after such abuse, as mine has gone through.. I think I mentioned at the start of this project my 'long term' plan WAS in fact to switch motor and drive to something more current, I just wasn't thinking it would have to happen THIS YEAR...

Anyhoo...

The motor seams to be 'drained' now, I poured about a liter of nice red atf into it, and the clear sucker/vac hose turned a slight redish color after a few pumps.... so maybe this weekend I will fill it up with cheepo wallmart oil, throw a battery in... (oh reminds me, I should check those too..) and turn the key.. The impeller is out of the drive so I think I could first crank it over as Speak has suggested.. then if it seams to crank ok, run a fuel line to the carb from a gas can and fire the dog up (if it starts, if the starter works anymore, if the ignition works, etc)... I'm sure I can run it for a few without damaging anything... ideally I would like to see it make oil pressure, and if it isn't bleeding its oil all over the bilge I'll install the impeller, hook up water and give it a go at running up to operating temp...

 

[Speak]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

Big D. Great Idea, all is not lost just yet. Have you had this pig running in the past? As long as that motor hasnt been ran with that water in it is should be fine. Got any pics of the motor and these gaskets that are "pushed" out around the pan?

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

Big D. Great Idea, all is not lost just yet. Have you had this pig running in the past? As long as that motor hasnt been ran with that water in it is should be fine.

No, I didn't fire it last year when I bought it, as it had been sitting drained/winterized by my marina, who I purchased it from, and winter was fast approaching.. (thought I was doing the right thing there.. ) I did check the oil, and it looked dirty and a bit milky but I wasn't too worried... I cranked it once or twice but only for a few seconds, just to check the starter did in fact work and motor wasn't siezed.

Got any pics of the motor and these gaskets that are "pushed" out around the pan?

I will try to get a pic or two tomorrow.. the gaskets aren't 'pushed out' really, but there is oil all over the block/pan mating area, but none on the block above that point.. and I did notice a definite drip line on the bellhousing (during my first 'dirty diesel oil test') coming from the center of the motor, indicating to me it was coming from the rear main. The oil cooler above is dry, and there are no signs of oil coming from the 'top' of the motor anywhere.

edit; forgot to mention, I cracked the oil filter loose, (remote mounted in front of the port side manifold, nice and easy to get to..heh..they did SOMETHING right...) and it is still full of nice clean looking oil, so I am 100% sure this motor has never been run or even started with the water I just found in it; It got in somehow (likely through the dipstick tube, or rear main seal if it is in fact dried out from sitting) over the last few years of sitting unused and abandoned. I can only hope it didnt do too much internal damage..

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

Ok, got a few pics today.. The port side pics (first 2) may be hard to tell as to the pan gasket leaking or not, but you can probably see the oil marks on the bellhousing, dripping from the middle/center of the motor. Starboard side (yes that rusty 'thing' is my starter.. a rebuild was planed) you can see the oil glistening from the camera flash all along the pan/gasket area.. for comparison, the last pic is the block, which appears fairly clean and is not covered in oil

 

[Speak]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

Ok, got a few pics today.. The port side pics (first 2) may be hard to tell as to the pan gasket leaking or not, but you can probably see the oil marks on the bellhousing, dripping from the middle/center of the motor. Starboard side (yes that rusty 'thing' is my starter.. a rebuild was planed) you can see the oil glistening from the camera flash all along the pan/gasket area.. for comparison, the last pic is the block, which appears fairly clean and is not covered in oil

OK! Big D. Illl give you my opinion as a Licensed Mechanic, and service manager. I was expecting worse looking pics to be honest. If it where mine i would be putting a wrench onto those oil pan bolts and snugging them up. you can see the oil hangers off the bolts. I really dont thing your rear main is leaking. Most rear mains only leak when the engine is running and not when it is just sitting there over the winter. In fact the oil pan gasket runs up tight to the rear main which could make it appear that the rear main is leaking. honestly, wash It down with some good engine de greaser, tight them pan bolts as I mentioned and call it done. Run the motor and check. you might get a season out of that pan gasket still. just my 2 cents. hope its worth something.

 

[bigdirty]

Re: 87 bayliner refurb/restoration project... "The Big Dirty"

.... i would be putting a wrench onto those oil pan bolts and snugging them up. you can see the oil hangers off the bolts.

:lol: well, I did think of that actually, and figured it might be looked upon as a redneck 'fix' that may or may not be worth it.. I did notice oil drips on the bold heads, but its hard to say if it wicked down from the gasket, or through the gasket and the bolt hole/around the bolt an down.. not that it matters at this point..

I really dont thing your rear main is leaking. Most rear mains only leak when the engine is running and not when it is just sitting there over the winter...

Yes, I figured the same thing, as I have had 'a few' vehicles over the years that leaked pretty bad at the rear main while running, but would hardly leave a spot in the driveway... I guess leaking is the wrong word for it, I just think as the oil and water separated, and water turned to ice and expanded, the oil was pushed past the seal.. but could be that its just the pan gasket, as the boat is tilted back on the blocks, and the motor by nature is tipped back in the engine bay to begin with.. it would cause the oil/water to collect at the rear of the sump.

I will try and give a few of the bolts a turn tomorrow and see.. most of the port side is not accessible right now, as the starter is in the way, but first off I want to see if it turns over/fires up without any bad sounds or knocks.. if I'm satisfied with it, I'll push on and get the starter off to re-build and crank the pan tight. fingers crossed here, I think if it all goes well, even a slight oil leak is tolerable for now.. I'll throw some absorbent mats in the bilge and keep an eye on it..

And thanks for the $.02, appreciate the input and thoughts