1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs w/ Many Pics

[tpenfield]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

With the 94 gal tank and fuel prices just filling it up is over budget

Ted as far as I've read the plastic tanks are good......can't see any reason you couldn't foam it in place

OK, good and thanks . . . now if I can just find a 75 gallon +/- plastic tank that will fit into the v-hull, I think I'd go that route.

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Or a replacement plastic tank would be a great option as well... Why do you want to replace the tank, and not repair... Sorry if I missed that if you mentioned above.

Remember when your done, she's gonna out live us!

I'm in deep also... Restoring the Imperial, and my VP-DPS drive service... Good times!

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Or a replacement plastic tank would be a great option as well... Why do you want to replace the tank, and not repair... Sorry if I missed that if you mentioned above.

Remember when your done, she's gonna out live us!

I'm in deep also... Restoring the Imperial, and my VP-DPS drive service... Good times!

I may have a local shop take a look at the tank and see what they think. . . or . . . If I can get a good sized plastic tank at a decent price, then I might make the switch. It looks like "Moeller" is a popular brand of plastic tank. . . any others that I should look for?

Since this structural work and fuel tank issue are starting to wear me out, I'm gonna refurb the outdrive this weekend . . .

Good luck with the Imperial restore.

 

[Lou C]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

I can't remember where I read it but you can't foam in plastic tanks, they expand and contract with temperature and the foam right up against the tank will prevent that. They have to be installed with straps and brackets. They also allow a certain amount of fume permeation, not enough to cause any safety issue but some boat builders have had issues with people smelling fumes in boats with cabins right next to the tank.
I would stick with an aluminum tank, if you have to replace it or get that one repaired, what people do as per Pascoe's article is coat them in coal tar epoxy. Many production boats now use the plastic tanks and they probably save some cost.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Hi Lou:

I've been doing some reading on "pros" & "cons" of aluminum vs. plastic. As you say, one of the issues with plastic is that eventually the fuel permeates the plastic and they 'smell' like fuel. The other thing is that most do not have baffles, so you get the sloshing, etc.

The aluminum tanks have the corrosion issue to deal with . . . sooo . . . I'm not sure at this point, but I'm leaning towards getting my tank inspected & repaired.

In plastic, my options are to get an off-the-shelf 55 gallon tank ($375 +/-) with about 1 week delivery time, or get a 72 gallon made-to-order tank ($730 +/-) with about 5 weeks lead time. The off-the-shelf tank does not have the fittings in the right places for my boat, so some re-routing of hoses would also be needed.

I'm thinking to repair the tank might be a few hundred $$$ and a couple week's lead time. So, I may end up doing that.

Any advice on the proper technique to purge the tank with fuel/fumes ? (anyone ???) . . . There is maybe 1/2 gallon of gas that I can hear sloshing around. so, I'll drain that. I was thinking of filling with water and adding some alcohol get rid of the gas. There is a 'kit' I saw on the POR-15 site, but that also has repair stuff in it.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Fuel Tank Update-

After a bit of research and calling, it looks like welders shy away from repairing marine fuel tanks . . . seems like too much of an unknown as far as the tank's overall condition, liability, etc.

So, I'm getting some price quotes on a new aluminum tanks, made just like the old tank.

I found a couple of shops in the area:

- RK Welding and Fabrication - Pocasset, MA

- Luther Welding - Bristol, RI

Anybody have any experience with either of these companies?


The Pocasset guy is a stone's throw from my house at 'the Cape', so the convenience factor is way up there.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

I submitted quote requests to several fuel tank companies online yesterday, and got 2 quotes back fairly quickly. They are in the $800 - $900 range, plus shipping.

So, last night was budget calculation time . . .

It looks like this repair, with the new fuel tank, is going to run around $2K total. Not too bad . . .

I ordered some fiberglass supplies from US Composites last night.

- 3 gallons of Vinyl Ester Resin
- 8 Cu Ft Kit of foam
- 1708 Cloth
- 18 Oz Woven Roving

I already have a few gallons of Polyester Resin, some 24 Oz Roving, and a small roll of CSM from another project. So, hopefully, I'll have plenty of "stuff".

- TTFN

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Friday Update . . .

I am going to drop the fuel tank off with a welding/fabrication shop in Pocasset, MA. They are going to give me a price on a new tank, making it same as the old tank. The original tank is 7' 4" long (88"). I think that I will have them make it a few inches shorter than the original, so that it has adequate space between the bulkhead.

The fiberglass/resin supplies have shipped from US Composites and should be here middle of next week. So, this weekend is final prep work on the structure, then the actual repair process begins.

 

[rickryder]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Nice to see thing moving forward for ya!

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Weekend (4/21/2012) update:

I dropped off the tank with a local welder . . . we worked out a price for a new tank, making it 4" shorter, etc

The guy had a bunch of old tanks in his back lot, one of them recently came out of a Formula. OMG, talk about corrosion on some of these tanks . . . they were like powdered donuts, they had so much corrosion. My tank, even with its few pits looked brand new compared to some of the tanks that come out of boats

The owner of the shop said that my tank lasted 20+ years because it was painted . . . so maybe I'll paint the new one.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Some other prep work and the Fiberglass/Resin material arrived yesterday . . .

Since I will be adding drainage underneath the fuel tank and leading into the bilge, I decided to put and extra bilge pump near the transom to get rid of more water. The regular bilge pump always leaves a fair amount of water in the bilge, which could flow forward into the tank compartment under the 'new' configuration.

Here are a few photos of prepping the area for the second bilge pump.

All the Stuff . . .


Surface Prep


Glassing


The materials that I ordered from US Composites for the repair arrived


That's all for now. since it rained last weekend, I did not get the wood removal and hull prep work done. So the fiberglassing will have to wait a while longer until that is complete.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Weekend Update - April 29th 2012 - More Preparation work:

I continued to prep the boat for fiberglass work, which will probably start next weekend. Here are a few pics.

I removed the fuel line and cut the conduit to gain better access to the starboard side. Since I am having the fuel tank made a few inches shorter (i.e. fittings will be a bit further forward), I will probably have to relocate where the conduit exits the stringer anyway. Plus the fuel and vent lines will most likely be a few inches longer.


I also plan to make a flat base along the keel inside the fuel tank compartment so that water can easily drain aft and thru the bulkhead into the bilge. The current design allows water to get trapped at the ribs in the hull. It had saturated the foam underneath the old tank. Here is a pic of the keel area roughed up. I won't make the flat base until after I have the bulkhead in.


There was some dis-coloration which looked like mold along the main stringers. I figured that it could be quickly cleaned up with a hit from the wire wheel. To my surprise . . .the 'mold' was underneath the resin !!! So, I had to cut into the resin to remove the dis-coloration. My plan is to add a layer of glass to the main stringers so everything will be sealed back up again.


The rot in one of the rear outboard stringers went a bit further aft than I had originally thought. So, I cut the side open to clean things out. I will have to get creative to marry a new stinger portion into the remaining wood. The good thing is that there are 3 stringers in this location that are about 6 inches apart.


The engine mount stringers are going to be filled. Formula Boats (the manufacturer), has what is called a "Suspended Stringer System" where the entire stringer/bulkhead assembly is raised off the hull about 3/4" prior to glassing to the hull. In order to emulate the 3/4" spacing with a filled stringer, I injected some urethane foam at the bottom of the stringer cavity and then tamped it down with some thin foam strips.

Here is a peak at the foam down at the bottom of the stringer cavity. This should do the trick of having the poured stringer act like a "suspended" stringer.


I also put a similar foam buffer where the bulkhead and the main stringer portions will go. This is in case I slobber too much resin during the glassing of these components.


So, things are continuing to dry out in anticipation of fiberglass work next weekend. My new fuel tank should also be ready then, So, I may spend 1/2 a day going to pick it up.

TTFN -

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Mid-week Update: May 3rd . . .

I called the tank fabrication guy and it looks like it is going to be another week for the tank to be ready. One thing the shop owner (Rich) told me, is that the old tank has an internal vent tube that leads to the forward part of the tank. I was wondering about that, because all of the fittings are at the stern end of the tank. It would make more sense for the vent line to be at the forward end of the tank. It seems that Formula ( or maybe the tank maker ) chose to run the vent to the forward part of the tank via a tube INSIDE the tank.

The guy making the new tank told me that approach adds about $100 to the cost of the tank. To me it is not worth it, so I told him to make a 'standard' vent fitting at the forward end of the tank. I only have about 2" of clearance between the top of the tank and the ski locker, once things are back together, but it should be enough.

So, I will definitely have to run the vent line differently than the original design. It looks like I will have to split the "Fuel line Conduit" out at the outboard stringer (where I cut it off), and have one for the vent tube and another for the fuel fill line, each emerging separately from the main stringer.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Weekend update: May 6th . . .

It rained during the week and although I have the boat covered, water tends to seep through. Talk about "one step forward, two steps back" . . . Sooo, I decided to put the boat in the garage for the remainder of the project. I'll need the boat in the garage to put the engine back in anyway.

Fortunately, my boat j-u-s-t fits in the garage from a height standpoint. Length-wise, not so much, but it will do.



Anyway, now I can keep the boat dry and also do some work at night during the week. I'm starting to feel the time pressure to get things moving, so that I can launch by about mid-June. I was hoping for Memorial Day weekend, but that may be out of the question, as I still have the 'regular' prep-work to do after the structural repairs are done, etc.

 

[oops!]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

I decided to put and extra bilge pump near the transom to get rid of more water..

lol my good friend....

when you get done......you aint gonna need an extra pump.....!


cheers
oops

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

lol my good friend....

when you get done......you aint gonna need an extra pump.....!


cheers
oops

Maybe so, but there is something about that bilge that does not want to drain so well from the existing pump. It seems that the location of the existing pump is mostly the issue. So, it was a matter of moving the existing pump, or just adding a second 'mini' pump. A regular size pump will not fit under the engine, so I am going with a smaller size pump.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Mid-week Update: May 3rd . . .

I called the tank fabrication guy and it looks like it is going to be another week for the tank to be ready. One thing the shop owner (Rich) told me, is that the old tank has an internal vent tube that leads to the forward part of the tank. I was wondering about that, because all of the fittings are at the stern end of the tank. It would make more sense for the vent line to be at the forward end of the tank. It seems that Formula ( or maybe the tank maker ) chose to run the vent to the forward part of the tank via a tube INSIDE the tank.

The guy making the new tank told me that approach adds about $100 to the cost of the tank. To me it is not worth it, so I told him to make a 'standard' vent fitting at the forward end of the tank. I only have about 2" of clearance between the top of the tank and the ski locker, once things are back together, but it should be enough.

So, I will definitely have to run the vent line differently than the original design. It looks like I will have to split the "Fuel line Conduit" out at the outboard stringer (where I cut it off), and have one for the vent tube and another for the fuel fill line, each emerging separately from the main stringer.

The guy from the welding shop called, and the new tank is ready. So, it looks like I'll be fetching the tank this week or certainly by the weekend. Of course with the 'rain delays' that I have been experiencing, the tank will not be installed for another couple of weeks.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

I went to pick up the new fuel tank today . . . here are a few pictures below.

The guy put in 4 baffles, which is one more than the original tank . . . and it is 4" shorter as I had specified. So, it measures about 26" wide x 84" long and about 11" deep. It holds 85 gallons versus the 94 gallon capacity of the original. It even came with a new sender, which I am not sure if I will use, or just replace with the original "VDO" sender.



It rained today, but the boat is dry since it is now in the garage. So, I will probably get some fiberglass work going in the next few days.

 

[rickryder]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Nice tank....I'm glad your filling that one!

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Re: 1991 Formula 242 Stringer & Bulkhead Repairs

Nice tank....I'm glad your filling that one!

Yup, it is about a $400 fill . . . but I never seem to fill it.

I need to put some sort of sealant on the threads of the fittings, etc. and I wonder if something like a fuel-proof permatex would be the right sort of stuff, or if there is something more 'special' ????