1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

[jigngrub]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

I suggest doing all of the grinding before doing any building. That way you can clean everything up at once and won't be getting glass dust on your newly installed material.

I know grinding is nasty and tedious, but after it's all done the worst part will be over and you can build build build!

 

[mrdjflores]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

looking really good so far!!!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

The good news is I passed part 3 of the CIA (Certified Internal Auditor) examination on Saturday - so I only have 1 more test to go until I complete the certification. But that took up all of Saturday for me.

When you pass part 4, do you get 1 of those spiffy CIA ballcaps & windbreaker?

On Friday, I have a bit more grinding to do then we'll cut the wood, resin it, lam it together and cover it with glass.

What are you laminating the 2 pieces of 3/4" plywood together with?

Probably cut the wood, glue & clamp it together & make sure it dries as flat & un-warped as possible

Make sure it fits, & you've got a slight gap at the bottom & both sides (allows for squeeze out & a good PB fillet).

Then apply poly resin, let it tack off (NOT DRY), re-apply resin & layup your CSM on all edges & both faces...

Then practice practice practice getting the transom in place, adjusted where you want it & clamped up however you've decided to do that: Thru the keyhole & a couple thru hull holes, or whatever.

You'll want to confirm that it is aligned & perpendicular to the centerline of the boat. You do not want to PB it into place askew or out of the thickness spec'd for your outdrive, 2-2 1/4" for a Mercruiser, I THINK. You'll want to confirm that dimension...

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

I suggest doing all of the grinding before doing any building. That way you can clean everything up at once and won't be getting glass dust on your newly installed material.

I know grinding is nasty and tedious, but after it's all done the worst part will be over and you can build build build!

I know you are right! I am planning to finish grinding out the transom and bilge before we install the new one.

Our HOA got mad about the boat on the driveway, so we are going to have to move it into the garage, only problem is, that it will only fit frontwards (there is a small alcove on the back wall of the garage that the trailer tongue can fit into). We are 4" short of the normal garage length without the alcove. I was hoping to get the transom in this weekend and install the stern tie-downs before we have to move it, but we'll see how it goes. We may just have to use some tie-down configuration if we don't the transom done.

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

What are you laminating the 2 pieces of 3/4" plywood together with?

I will have to ask about the hat and jacket - wouldn't that be a riot? Of course I don't think the Langley CIA people typically wear clothing advertising their agency...

Not 100% sure on the laminating method yet. I want to make sure I am getting this right either way. I know PL has longer set time, but would also be more forgiving, right? Do I spread the PL (if we go that route) like you would thin-set for tiling? or just line it on and let it squeeze flat when clamped? If I go PB, how much should I mix up to do this?
Any preference/recommendation?

Transom Option 1-
Cut the two pieces
Test fit in boat & refine as needed
Resin them
Laminate them together with CSM
Allow to set
Cover with CSM
Allow to set fully
Test fit in boat


Transom Option 2-
Cut pieces
Test fit in boat & refine as needed
Glue together (resin first or only after?)
Allow to set
Resin until tacky
Cover with CSM
Allow to fully set
Test fit in boat


Here is where I get less sure of the correct order:
PB/PL into hull
Clamp & let set (before covering?)
fillet into hull
Cover with CSM & 1708 (longer & wider than transom to create tabbing)


The template pic doesn't show it, but there is room around the whole transom for PB fillet & squeeze out. Planning to use foam spacers to hold it once I've gotten it aligned to keep the spacing

We are planning to clamp it with 2x4s inside and out bolting through the key hole and tie-down holes. We are also planning to put a few sand bags inside on the bottom edge to hold it in place.

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Testing thread

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Not 100% sure on the laminating method yet. I want to make sure I am getting this right either way. I know PL has longer set time, but would also be more forgiving, right?

More forgiving then what? TiteBond3 is easy to work with, water-based, sets up quickly & once cured it's water-proof. A gallon goes a long way and is $30-40. NOT TiteBond or TiteBond2, TiteBond III (3)

This

Spread the PL (if we go that route) like you would thin-set for tiling

Not this: Line it on and let it squeeze flat when clamped?

If I go PB, how much should I mix up to do this?

Roughly 1 qt of PB does about 5 sq ft. Transom and outer skin using a 3/8" notched trowel. SO you'll want to get 1.5 qt ready to be mixed after you practice the installation 1 last time. Just before you mix the 1st batch up, prep at least 1.5 qt and as you start to apply the 1st batch, someone else will need to start mixing the 2nd 1.5qt. A larger container that allows the PB to be mixed & not make a very deep mix of catalyzed resin. (Think 1gal in a 5gal bucket NOT 1gal in a 1 or 2gal bucket. The resin will kick much faster, possibly incredibly faster, it may even start to smoke & deform the plastic container)

Based on a rough estimate of a 30" +/- tall, 6' wide transom you'll need about 3qt of PB. Unless you can work VERY fast, you probably don't want to mix it all at once.

No matter how much you need, or that you initially mix up, you will want AT LEAST 2 qts (or more) prepped & set up in 1/2qt batches (everything 100% measured out & set aside) so as you get close to having used 1/2 your 2nd mixed 1.5qt, you can quickly have someone mix up a little extra to ensure you get 100% coverage on the transom & once set quickly have enough PB to completely fillet the transom.

This ^^^ all needs to be carefully planned & staged. Depending on amount of catalyst (1.5-2%) & the ambient temperature (your hull & PB need to be warm too, not just the air temp) you will have 12-15min to complete all of the above from the time the 1st bit of MEKP gets mixed into your PB. Maybe less if the PB is a large volume in a small container, or it's above 70* outside.

NOTE: it is easier to use metric measures & a percentage of MEKP:
1Qt = 0.946L = 946ml
1ml = 1cc
In 1qt of PB you'd use @14ml (CC's) at 1.5% MEKP or 19ml (CC's) at 2%
Use needle free syringes to measure the MEKP

Transom Option 1-
Cut the two pieces
Test fit in boat & refine as needed
Resin them
Allow to set until tacky
Laminate them together with CSM, wetted out w/ additional resin
Clamp
Allow to setup
Cover with CSM
Allow to set fully
Test fit in boat

If you want to use poly resin & CSM to laminate the transom, yep

TB3 would be easier to work with, and have a similar cure time

Transom Option 2-
Cut pieces
Test fit in boat & refine as needed
Glue together (TB3/PL)
Clamp
Allow to set
Resin until tacky
Cover with CSM
Allow to fully set
Test fit in boat

Again TB3 will have a quick cure time, PL will take 72hrs+/- and it must be troweled on for 100% coverage and be done quickly so the PL does not skin over & not get a good bond between the plywood pieces.

And the TB3 just needs enough pressure to ensure a good bond, don't over clamp & squeeze out all the glue. PL needs more clamping force to ensure a tight fit, but don't over squeeze it, and force it all out..

Here is where I get less sure of the correct order:
PB/PL into hull
Clamp & let set (before covering?) << Unh?
fillet into hull
Cover with CSM & 1708 (longer & wider than transom to create tabbing)

Covered w/ what? After the 2pcs of transom plywood are glued together, before you install them in the hull you wet them out w/ resin, let it get tacky, apply more resin & wrap all edges & faces w/ CSM. Thia is all before you glued them into the hull.

Once they're glued onto the hull, you clamped them in place, used the squeeze out to start the fillets, finished the fillets. Once all that's cured, you tabbed the transom to the hull. Once tabbed, you cover the whole thing (transom, fillets & tabbing) w/ both CSM & 1708. The CSM helps give the 1708 a good bond to the transom. If you then want to add a finer texture to the surface of the transom (1708 will have a waffle texture print through, CSM will be smoother) you can cover the 1708 w/ CSM.

And done............

The template pic doesn't show it, but there is room around the whole transom for PB fillet & squeeze out. Planning to use foam spacers to hold it once I've gotten it aligned to keep the spacing

We are planning to clamp it with 2x4s inside and out bolting through the key hole and tie-down holes. We are also planning to put a few sand bags inside on the bottom edge to hold it in place.

Thanks for all the feedback!

All this sounds good.....

Have a great end to the week..

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

I think we made pretty good progress this weekend. We demoed the rest of the bilge area and removed the gas tank. We cut the transom wood and laminated it together. We covered it in CSM and bedded it in the transom. It is currently clamped and curing. We also moved the boat into the garage because our HOA finally came down on the boat on the driveway. Here are the pics of our progress. Here are the pics of the progress so far...

A couple of interesting shots of the motor mounts - one from the top

One from the side (starboard mount had been foamed, port hadn't )

Test fitting the transom

Ready to laminate

Clamping down the laminating layer

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Covering in CSM

All covered

And clamping into the hull

I'll get some shots inside the boat tomorrow night. Our plan to pull the bow boxes, pull the floor and foam and then replace the stringers, rebuild the deck, the bow boxes and the seats.. And maybe recover them as well (at least the upholstery is something I know how to do!)

I hope the weekend treated you all well.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Looking good!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Did you precoat the wood with resin prior to applying the CSM? How much PB did it take to glue it to the outer skin? Did you have plenty of squeeze out to do the filleting? Am I correct in saying you laminated the two pieces of plywood with resin and CSM and not the Titebond III?

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Did you precoat the wood with resin prior to applying the CSM? How much PB did it take to glue it to the outer skin? Did you have plenty of squeeze out to do the filleting? Am I correct in saying you laminated the two pieces of plywood with resin and CSM and not the Titebond III?

Yes, we precoated the boards with resin before we laminated them together. We couldn't get Titebond III here and I didn't want to wait for the cure time of the PL. So we resin soaked the boards first, letting it soak in until tacky, applied resin again to the sides that would laminate together, put the CSM on one side, wetted it out and then clamped them together.

After that set for 24 hours, we put resin on all the edges again, and both sides of wood, then covered it with CSM. Once that set overnight we troweled the PB onto the inside of the hull and onto the transom wood and clamped them together. It did squeeze out around the wood - more than I thought it would. We used 4.5 pints of resin with 4 pints of colloidal silica and 2-3 pints milled fiber. We did three batches (2 pints, 2 pints, 1.5 pints) which we measured out and had all set and ready to go. Definitely easier with hubby mixing and me troweling. The last 1.5 pints of resin we had to use some bread flour as we ran out of silica, but we still added milled fiber as well. All in all, it went pretty smoothly. We clamped it into the boat and filleted the PB that squeezed out. I will need to go back and add more PB around the vertical edges and the drain hole because I am not happy with it. Can I just add it onto the cured PB that is there to fill in the gaps? We didn't have time to do the fillets completely Monday night because we had to pick up the kids up from daycare.

This weekend, we'll cover/tab the transom with more glass. Do we need two layers of CSM before the 1708? My plan is to use the new layers to tab it in versus separate tabbing material - is this an okay process?

The glass layers would end up like this:
CSM (done already)
CSM (long enough to tab onto hull)
1708 (long enough to tab onto hull)
1708 (long enough to tab onto hull)
CSM (TBD if we want the smoother surface layer)

Also, I have about 1/4 inch between the transom and the hull along the bottom - is that sufficient to prevent hard spots?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

IMHO there is absolutely no reason to pull the cap on this boat to do the restore.

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

IMHO there is absolutely no reason to pull the cap on this boat to do the restore.

That is good news, we haven't pulled it yet - and I am really hoping that I don't have to - ever! Thanks WoG!

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

We took most of this weekend off with family, but spent some time today in the boat. We tabbed the transom in with CSM, covered the the entire thing with 2 layers of 1708. Now we are in the process of tabbing in with two layers of 1708, unfortunately it cooled off this evening, so we'll finish that tomorrow.

Once that is complete, we finish demo on the floor & bow seats and start the stringer restoration.

I have a question regarding the top near the windshield. There are stress cracks (I assume from the rotten floor), do I repair these the same way as I would stress cracks in the hull or is there a special way? (See close up pics below).

 

[Handchops]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Good luck with your boat! Would like to see videos of the actual work. (You know like friscoboater) the more people you have following your project will help keep you motivated. I think? I bet that was a terrible feeling when you cut through the hull. Wow! Good luck again congratulations on the boat

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

We made some demo progress last weekend, but not as much as I would have liked. I still need to get the bow seat supports, the console support and the floor/foam up into the bow out of the boat. I hope to get some demo done this weekend.

A quick question - when I install the trailer tie-down u bolts through the transom, do I use 3M 4200 or something else to seal them?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

In & out 4200 or 5200 will work great!

Will those tie downs be used for rope tows as well?

If so, or on the actual rope tow/ski eye, many use a large aluminum backer plate to help spread the load across a larger area of the transom, several inches bigger in each direction then the small plate that may have come w/ your eyes.

A 1/4" aluminum plate won't drastically change the length of threaded end your eye's will need. If you have the threaded length, 3/4" plywood will work too, but like the rest of the wood, it needs to be well sealed & protected from water intrusion..................

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

In & out 4200 or 5200 will work great!

Will those tie downs be used for rope tows as well?

Thanks JB - these will just be for the trailer tie-downs, but I will put a bigger plate on the back. The one on them now is not nearly as large as the one in the picture.

We have a separate rope eye and I will use a bigger plate on that as well.

I got a steal on a pair of "boat buckle" stern tie-downs at work today so I bought them - anyone had any experience with them?

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

This weekend we got a little further. We didn't have a lot of childcare, so we only got the demo done. Now we have a lot of grinding to do. The next two weekends are busy with family stuff, so it won't be until after Christmas that we can any significant progress done.

Question for the experts - are the lighter pink spots on the hull delamination? If so, do I grind it down and add a layer of 1708 or is there a better solution?