1987 Power Play XLT-185 - floors, stringers, and upholstery

[Reserector_]

The places where you ground into the hull; were they all delaminated places?
On a different note, you might be able to put the shop vac in the tent while you grind, put the hose on the exhaust side, and run it out of the tent and under the garage door. A slight negative pressure will keep the dust from wandering out of the tent. It might also draw the tent toward you, but you get the idea.

 

[todhunter]

The places where you ground into the hull; were they all delaminated places?
On a different note, you might be able to put the shop vac in the tent while you grind, put the hose on the exhaust side, and run it out of the tent and under the garage door. A slight negative pressure will keep the dust from wandering out of the tent. It might also draw the tent toward you, but you get the idea.

Yeah, each place that I went deeper than the surrounding area was delamination from the tabbing. In those areas I ground through the tabbing glass and down to the hull glass. Do I need to fill those low spots before tabbing, or will the tabbing just lay over them without creating another void?

I'm not a boat builder (yet), but the construction on this thing was pretty bad. Zero fillets anywhere - they just slapped saturated pieces of glass on for tabbing and left an air gap where there should be a fillet. And the tabbing on the stringers had a lot of voids / delamination / wrinkles. A good number of the voids were because there was a drop of a pinkish colored filler (like bondo) that they used to bed in the stringers and bulkheads in a few places. They just let globs of it drip onto the hull and just glassed over the globs.

Most of the dust in the garage came from my tent's door not being a good design and from dust blowing out the keyhole and exhaust holes in the transom. I did eventually tape over the exhaust holes and most of the keyhole. After that, if running the vacuum for more than about 3-4 minutes the tent was definitely getting sucked down on top of me, haha.

 

[Reserector_]

Consider how yours was constructed and couple that with the fact that it worked fine. It didn't fail structurally, aside from rot. And even then, it didn't crack the hull. Mine was similarly surprising, and I came to the same conclusion.
So use the better-than-common sense that you exhibit and make your decisions based on reality. Take what you read in forums with a grain of salt, including my ramblings.

If the hull layers are compromised, I would say to build that back up. However, it sounds like it's just the tabbing that was dry in places. If that's the case, yes, just glass over it with your new tabbing.

Be sure to wet the old stuff good with acetone. It seems to soften it a bit. Really wash it down with a wet rag soaked in acetone. After the first layer is down, you won't need to do that for subsequent layers of laminating resin. Wear a respirator and ventilate that garage.

When it comes to bedding, you just don't want gaps between the stringers and hull.

When it comes to fillets, you need a minimum of 1/4" to 3/8" leg length to prevent gaps and to allow the glass to curve without breaking fibers or lifting. You will need more filler (PB) on acute angles than you will on obtuse angles. Your biaxial weave should cross the transition at angles, which allows the 1708 to form into corners really well. That is determined by how you cut it.
Just remember that you are not fairing the root of an airplane wing, and remember what worked from the factory. Hit somewhere between those extremes and you're golden.

 

[PC on the Bayou]

I'm in with you guys on the original construction. Even with the imperfections that I'm sure that exist in my build, it will be much better and stronger than the factory build.

I seem the same things as you. Tabbing wasn't fully wetted out. Many voids / air pockets in the layups. A lot of what looks like sprayed in fibers as opposed to CSM. Deck not actually glued or screwed to the stringers. It's actually very surprising that it held together and lasted the nearly 30 years till now.

 

[todhunter]

All good tips you two, and thanks for encouraging me to not overthink it.

I finally got the garage fully cleaned and reorganized today around lunch. I moved the engine to the back corner under my welding table and set the drive on top of the welding table. This gave me some room to set up a folding table that I will use to prep the fiberglass on. Do most folks build some kind of dispenser rack for their rolls of fiberglass? I think I'm going to try to get by without doing that, but we'll see.



Next I started making templates for the transom and stringers out of pink foam. The transom template is the same size as what I took out, but the smaller sheet closer to the bow I made 2" taller to match the height of the other sheet, and I made it 2" wider so the outer stringers will have room to make contact with it.



I started making a stringer template - this piece is 96" long, so I'm going to tape another piece to it to make the full length template.



This is looking down the length of the stringer template. I can flex the foam to follow the curve of the strake, but I don't think I'm going to be able to do that with 3/4" plywood. The manufacturers had a little bit of bow to the board that made the stringer, but it didn't follow the strake completely. Of course, they just glassed over the large air gap left there. Should I try to bend my plywood (even a little bit) to better follow the strake, or should I just leave it straight? I guess I should fill whatever gap is left with PB so the tabbing will smoothly transition onto the hull...if I leave the board totally straight, that's going to take a lot of PB. I'm tired from working on it all day, and I'm going out of town tomorrow through Friday, so I'll get back on it this coming weekend.

 

[Reserector_]

You could cut temporary bulkheads (spreaders) to set the correct distance between the pair of stringers at a few points along the way. Put both stringers in, and then twist (wedge) the spreaders into place to set the distance and hold them parallel in the vertical. At that point, you can run long clamps across the "ladder" at each spreader. You might want to add some tic marks where the spreaders go once you get them worked out.

When you are ready to install, take it apart, lay down PB for one stringer and then set it back up. Stuff more PB in the joint as needed. Once it is set up, pop it apart and do the other side. I suppose if you had trained personnel, you could do both at the same time.

Here is a picture to illustrate the point. Mine were straight, but I could have pushed a bow into them. The strakes in the hull stop the sideward movement. I used cheap HF clamps.

 

[todhunter]

Well, let me tell you a 50 yard roll of 1708 is HEAVY. It would have been a nightmare trying to just unroll it on the floor or my folding table, so I broke down and built a dispenser rack today for both rolls of glass.

 

[tpenfield]

Wow . . . 50 yds x 2 . That seems like a lot of cloth. Probably will have extra for a second rebuild ???

 

[todhunter]

Wow . . . 50 yds x 2 . That seems like a lot of cloth. Probably will have extra for a second rebuild ???

Maybe I overestimated a little, haha. I only wanted to buy the cloth once.

 

[todhunter]

Also, my brother just bought a 1973 Glastron Carlson CV-19 that he's going to restore...I'm sure he can use any leftover's I've got when I'm done rebuilding mine.

 

[todhunter]

Cut out my transom from the plywood today.

 

[todhunter]

Question for everyone:
I'm going to have to scarf together wood for two of my stringers. I'd rather not buy an epoxy kit just for this. Any drawbacks to gluing together my scarf joints with PB or with a layer of CSM and polyester resin? I'm going to be fully encapsulating the stringers in 1708 and polyester resin anyhow, and if it's good enough for laminating the transom, why wouldn't it be good enough for scarfing together stringers?

 

[Reserector_]

Question for everyone:
I'm going to have to scarf together wood for two of my stringers. I'd rather not buy an epoxy kit just for this. Any drawbacks to gluing together my scarf joints with PB or with a layer of CSM and polyester resin? I'm going to be fully encapsulating the stringers in 1708 and polyester resin anyhow, and if it's good enough for laminating the transom, why wouldn't it be good enough for scarfing together stringers?

Will the floor (sole) be glued to the top of the stringers as well? If so, think of the strength that will lend.

I used poly to glue plywood sisters to both sides of my stringer (butt) joints. 1708 over that. That worked for me.

A scarf joint is better because of its uniform strength and consistent thickness.

I realize that is not an answer, but rather some considerations to help you decide what works for you.

 

[kcassells]

Question for everyone:
I'm going to have to scarf together wood for two of my stringers. I'd rather not buy an epoxy kit just for this. Any drawbacks to gluing together my scarf joints with PB or with a layer of CSM and polyester resin? I'm going to be fully encapsulating the stringers in 1708 and polyester resin anyhow, and if it's good enough for laminating the transom, why wouldn't it be good enough for scarfing together stringers?

But yes inregards to your approach its fine!
Scarfs blow cause noone gets the actual 12/14-1 ration needed and its way an old way to go.
BUTT JOINTS

 

[todhunter]

I laminated my transom today. I went with 1 layer of CSM between the two sheets of plywood. It was my first time working with fiberglass and resin. All in all I'd say it went well.

Thanks for the feedback on the scarf joint bonding.

 

[todhunter]

I got some more work in on the transom tonight - just a short stint. I clamped the new transom into the boat and made a tracing of the holes. I used the "PC on the Bayou" method to fill/seal the holes with PB. I used a 7/8" bit to drill out the 6 holes for my drive, 2 holes for my trim tab motor cables, and 4 holes for where my metal tie-down loops go through the transom. I then mixed up my first batch of PB and applied it.

Question for everyone:
How much time after the polyester resin kicks does the ambient temperature need to stay above 60F? My garage is insulated, I've got a 24,000 BTU heat pump for just the garage, and I've got a kerosene heater, so getting up to working temperatures is no problem...I just don't want to run the heat pump all night if I don't have to. It's 33F outside right now and I was able to get the temperature in the garage up to 72F in about 20 minutes.

Keyhole tracing - one hole drilled to 7/8"



All holes drilled to 7/8"



All holes filled with PB

 

[kcassells]

I got some more work in on the transom tonight - just a short stint. I clamped the new transom into the boat and made a tracing of the holes. I used the "PC on the Bayou" method to fill/seal the holes with PB. I used a 7/8" bit to drill out the 6 holes for my drive, 2 holes for my trim tab motor cables, and 4 holes for where my metal tie-down loops go through the transom. I then mixed up my first batch of PB and applied it.

Question for everyone:
How much time after the polyester resin kicks does the ambient temperature need to stay above 60F? My garage is insulated, I've got a 24,000 BTU heat pump for just the garage, and I've got a kerosene heater, so getting up to working temperatures is no problem...I just don't want to run the heat pump all night if I don't have to. It's 33F outside right now and I was able to get the temperature in the garage up to 72F in about 20 minutes.

Keyhole tracing - one hole drilled to 7/8"
View attachment 329849


All holes drilled to 7/8"
View attachment 329850


All holes filled with PB
View attachment 329851

Sorry for the late reply,
It should have started to set up with in a 1/2 hour. They call it "pot life" for the working time of the poly. Looking good!

 

[todhunter]

Sorry for the late reply,
It should have started to set up with in a 1/2 hour. They call it "pot life" for the working time of the poly. Looking good!

Thanks - my question is more "once it kicks, how soon can I kill the heat in the garage?" I ended up running the heat about 2 hours after I finished spreading the PB. It was 77F when I turned off the heat around 9PM, and here at 7AM the next morning, it's only down to 60F in the garage with an outside temperature of 26F. I think it's insulated enough to coast down slowly and be OK.

 

[Reserector_]

Working outside, I ran into this problem, but had no control over it. I can't say how long after to keep it warm, but I think you are on the right track. Err on the side of safety by keeping it above 60 after it kicks for a couple hours and then let it coast down.

I had one batch in my cap that I applied just before the temp dropped one evening and it took hours to kick. It was in the cap, and it did set up strong...eventually. I guess I got careless after the critical hull work.

I had some places that went "dry" as a side effect of the cold. In each case, the temp was close to 60° or slightly above, but falling. They were not structural areas, but rather sealing i.e. underside of the floor.
What I think happened was that when I pre-wetted the plywood, and then wetted out the mat, it was cold enough that the resin was slow to soak in. I wetted it out to a nice wet surface, but the next day when I checked it, it has soaked in more resin in places, leaving the surface white-ish.

So definitely get your air AND your wood and hull up to 70° if you can before laying resin. Use a digital temp gun to check your material temps. Keep your resin in a controlled climate. I would wipe my cans down and bring them in the house each night along with the peroxide squirter.

 

[tpenfield]

I would try to keep the work area warm for as long as you can within reason, while the resin cures . . . which would be 6-12 hours after the initial hardening. However, I would not let the temp go down to your outside/winter temp . . . try to keep the work area above 50˚ F for several days to allow full curing.