1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

[jc55]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

I used to paint in an attached 20x20 garage when I lived in the suburbs in Oregon. No matter what I did, the fumes entered the house. When I come home from this boat project, I smell strongly of resin. The smell permeates my clothes even when I get nothing on me. Hopefully you all pass the wife test. I get wicked headaches from resin without a respirator...just to echo jigngrub, watch the little ones!

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Hey banshee owner, no apologies necessary at all. I really dont even know what you mean by the hijacking thing. All opinions are a necessity. My garage is attached to the house which does definatly create a problem.
I can't just let it set all winter either. So I have come to the conclusion that because the resin is volatile as some of the other gentlemen have pointed out, I will have to install more ventilation in the garage.
As for the wife test, she'll go for it. She even agreed to take the kids to her moms house over the weekends that I will be using the resin and during its curing process. Other than that, I really don't know what else to do except just junk the hull all together. I really don't want to do that.
If anyone has any more input on this I would appreciate it. This whole resin thing actually has me a bit stressed out.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention it to you guys. Happy turkey day to everyone. And to those freinds not within our borders, happy turkey day anyway. You should consider buying one and cooking it up. Why? Because every turkey needs some eating. And their delicious too!

 

[jc55]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Wow, YOU have the super wife!

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Don't be stressin over you glassin!!! You're garage is NOT going to explode. It will stink quite a bit, but as long as you keep a box fan going and the garage door cracked and no Major Open flames in the Immediate vicinity of vaporized fumes... You'll be absolutely fine. Hundreds of DIY'ers just like you have done their boats in their garages with no ill effects. We want you to be aware of the issues but... Don't take em to the extremes!!!

 

[Daniel1947]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

My 2 cents for what it is worth. I realize 100% that the temps down here in Memphis don't get anywhere near as cold/frigid as they do up in your area or the far north. I used to do a lot of automotive side work and in the winter we were rebuilding the race car, etc. I have a very good Aladdin kerosiene heater, I would light it, regulate the flame, and it would raise the temp in the garage from 40 to 65 within a couple hours....I am sure it would have gotten warmer but I would shut it off at about that point. It would take another 4 hours or so, for the temperature to drop to the point I wanted heat again. My suggestion is to get the garage as warm as you can stand it, maybe even a little warmer, run your exhaust/vent system, and shut off any open flame heater you may be using. If you have kept the resins, etc., warm, you should be able to work with the glass for a few hours without blowing yourself up...:target: :facepalm: I have seen what can happen, when the "Oh, the fumes aren't that bad" actually migrate into the water heater area and explode. If your garage was completely seperate from the house and you blow up, it would just be you that went into orbit. Since it is attached to the house, and we already know that the fumes will migrate, I would be extremely careful. My point is this and I will bow to all the intelligence on previous posts, "If you can smell it....then you have fumes in the area." What you smell are the fumes. Just my opinion.
OH, and a late "Happy Thanksgiving" to all.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Thanks again guys on the advice. I went out today and picked up an outdoor thermometer and set it up inside of the shelter to test temperature. Our outside temps are surprisingly high for this time of year and right now its about 40 outside maybe a bit colder. Without running any heat source inside of the garage but also with the door closed and the fan off, the three 500 watt halogen lamps are maintaining 70 f inside of the shelter just barely by themselves.
I never took that into consideration for keeping up a good temp in there. If I were to add a few more lamps and pre-heat the garage really well as daniel1947 suggested, do you guys think I would get enough heat time out of the lamps for cure? Maybe then the whole open flame for heat problem may be cured.
I don't mean to beat this subject completely to death, but I cant stop in the middle and have to go back and start all over again. I'm just trying to cover every possibility and any pros or cons anyone can think of.
Thanks all!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

70*F temps will be fine for layups, set, and cure... and hopefully your ventilation system will keep up with the fumes. You're just going to have to experiment with it, do a little at a time and see how it goes. If you don't get any smell in the house you're good to go, it's like Daniel1947 said "If you can smell it, you've got fumes because you're smelling the fumes" (I'm surprised some people aren't smart enough to realize that).

If you'll take it slow and easy starting out and see what the threshold is for how long you can work before you have to stop (if you even have to stop) you should be fine.

When you order your materials, ask them to send you the MSDS sheet with the order so you can see what you need to do.

I'm glad to see your concern with this subject/part of the job, anybody that knows or cares would be concerned with having volatile chemicals in their home. The ones that don't know or care need to study up on the subject before they hurt themselves or someone else.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Thanks jigngrub. What are the coldest temps allowable for lay-up? Can it be at all less then 70s?

I got out today finally after what seemed to be weeks of dang flu being thrown back and forth in our house.:grumpy: I did manage to get the second stringer and both gunnel boards removed(I still don't know what they're really called). I need to scrape the foam that was in between them and the sides of the hull out still. I then need to work on removing the transom and then the fun of hours and days of surface grinding will begin.
I had the port side stringer removed about a week and a half ago along with all of the cross members. I noticed just before starting to cut the starboard side stringer out at there was a crack that followed the outboard side of the stringer from where it had at one point attached to the transom about three feet forward and right at the base. When I pulled the stringer, there was literally standing water trapped underneath of it still. This old girl was really in bad shape structurally. What a danger. I'm so happy that I decided to start digging!

The stringers. I think I should have a pretty good template for making new ones once I have the strips of old sole and glass removed from them. I will say this, that dang high speed metal saw worked like a charm. I would definatly suggest that route to anyone for future purposes. It cut very clean and created nearly no mess.



The portside was rotted out from transom mount point to about two or three feet forward.



The starboard side was still somewhat intact, however it was is softening and split right up the middle almost the entire length of where the crack was. Imagine that. It seems as though it's really been flexing around insde of its glass casing to make it split right up the center like that. I wish the pic could show the crack.



Anyways. It felt nice to make a bit more progress after a very unwelcome break from actual work on the project. Thanks again all!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Above 60F, and it all has to be above 60: boat hull, cloth, resin, ambient temp....

Resist adding more hardener to encourage the mix to kick, in cool temps still only up to 2% MEKP.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

I wouldn't try to lay anything up in less than 60*F temps, but you should be good at 60* or better.

I knew those stringers wouldn't be as sporty as you thought they'd be when you were talking about just the back 2 or 3' was rotten and whether or not to cut them out completely or scab onto them, looks can be very deceiving when it comes to fiberglass encapsulated wood.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Thanks guys. 60 is better than 70 I suppose. was hoping we would have a mellow winter this year but I just heard on the radio to expect single digit temps this week. So it begins. So much for that wishful thinking.
Here's another one for you guys. How long do those temps have to be maintained?

 

[jc55]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

When temps started dropping in the fall on those 70 degree days into 40's and 50's in the evenings, this is what I did...


It stayed nice and toasty at minimum expense overnight. This way, you're not heating the whole "bubble". I left a small opening at the other end.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Is that fresh lay-up under there? How long do you have to maintain temp? How long to fully kick-off?

 

[jc55]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Oh now I forget...it kicked in maybe 30-45 minutes but I kept her warm through the night. I can't answer you really, I don't pull the plug on anything that cures, outgasses, releases solvents shorter than 36-48 hrs. Not to freezing temps anyways. Especially for epoxy. Epoxy doesn't seem to like 60 degrees if you want to sand in 24 hrs. Just my opinion so far. The pros might have a better answer.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

...it kicked in maybe 30-45 minutes but I kept her warm through the night.

About right ^^^ Even though it maybe dry to the touch shortly, it doesn't reach full cure for a while.

A single 500w halogen, or several clip lights w/ 75W bulbs will keep a smallish tarped space warm if it's not sitting outside in the wind.

I've made a hot box to epoxy my transom, it's roughly 4ft wide, 5ft tall & 7ft deep, w/ 2" rigid foam insulation (that'll I'll recycle into flotation foam) on all 4 sides, at the 'doorway' I have a moving blanket clipped on & covering a fairly sizable hole. The bldg does stay above 20F, but not much, and I've been keeping my epoxy resin, Titebond3, PL & 3M 5200 and freshly epoxy wood inside for several weeks. It's never been below about 55F when I check multiple items using an infrared digital thermometer:

I fire up a propane heater to warm everything up for 15min +/-, but turn it off while I mix & apply the epoxy. Then turn the small heater in the pix on for 15min+/- to keep the epoxy warm & allow it to skin over a bit, and turn on 4 clip lights w/ 60W bulbs. After a bit I turn the propane back on & run it for about 20-30min, while I'm working on something else, I do turn small heater off though. Waiting to fire the propane up, hopefully minimizes the dust it stirs up & that lands on the fresh epoxy. I am not working in a particularly clean environment. I then button up the box & but leave the small heater & lamps on for several hours. Sometimes overnight.

I usually only leave the clip lights on 24-7, and it seems to keep the area plenty warm enough to protect my supplies from freezing.

A tarp to cover the back half of the hull & a moving blanket to insulate it, or a lightweight frame of rigid insulation, should allow you to use a small heater like JC & I have pictured. If it's particularly cold, AND you can protect them from the elements, 1 or 2 500W halogens could be placed UNDER the hull facing up to warm the hull & any glass work from below. Don't put them closer then 16" or 18" away.

Not to freezing temps anyways. Especially for epoxy. Epoxy doesn't seem to like 60 degrees if you want to sand in 24 hrs. Just my opinion so far. The pros might have a better answer.

JC may have used epoxy, but we're talking polyester resin for this build, correct?

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Resins, paints, and adhesives don't like cold weather... period!

Setting, curing, and drying times will vary according to temperature and humidity.

Keep your work warm until it's dry to the touch and firm/hard... again, this will vary depending on your ambient conditions.


I know winter seems like the perfect time to do boat restoration, but it actually the worst time unless you have the proper facilities. The resins, adhesives, and paints take a lot longer to set and cure and are subject to fail if not properly looked after... and this costs time and money that you wouldn't spend in warm weather.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if some of that sickness your family experienced wasn't caused by the rotten wood dust and fiberglass dust from demoing your boat... did you know there's an MSDS for wood dust? Here it is:
http://www.conradfp.com/pdfs/msds-wood-dust.pdf
Read the effects from inhalation.

Inhalation.........................May cause:
nasal dryness, irritation & obstruction.
Coughing, wheezing, & sneezing: sinusitis
& prolonged colds have also been reported.

... and rotten wood dust is even worse because of the mold and mildew spores in it.
... then there's the fiberglass dust, it makes rotten wood dust look like something you'd like to take a bath in by comparison.

I was very serious when I suggested you deconstruct your boat outside in an earlier post, and for good reason! Take it apart and grind and whatever else you have to do outside, build it back inside. There's no way you can contain, control, and clean up all the dust you create from a single work period, let alone multiple work periods.

 

[jc55]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Ingenious "hot box" JB! That should be a sticky! Yes, He's using poly(as did I) but for epoxy, it seems that it just won't cure to sand in 60 degree temps even after 24 hrs for fairing, or small repairs.

Jig, never even thought of the wood's mold spores or dust itself. That's good stuff. Did you know that there's an MSDS for "Air", lol. I keep track of our MSDS binders at work...EVERYTHING has and MSDS.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

I do very much appreciate your advice and you sharing your knowledge with me jigngrub. So please don't take this the wrong way at all. My son and I being sick came from the good old fashioned flu. We both had doctors diagnose it. Croupe and flu have been going around here and through the kids schools and daycare like wildfire. They do at this same time every year, and every year we get it. My wife and daughter do not. They're lucky to have different immune systems I guess. Either way, we got it, they didn't.
As far as moving the demo outside into the snow and single digit temps, are you crazy freind? I admit that before I completely sealed off the dust shelter and added a ventilation system then yes, the dust was a non-containable problem. But now that it is sealed except for where air pulls into the shelter because the fan pulls such a large amount of air out, the dust is contained. I know this because it doesn't cover everything around the boat in a film like it did before it was sealed off. The garage was also blown out and wiped down thoroughly after the shelter was sealed off. I also wear a protective suit that does not enter the home. Every single time I do any kind of work inside of that shelter it is swept, vacumed and blown out. Vacumed again and blown out 2 more times minimum without fail. The whole time with the ventilation fan on and continuing to run for about 1/2 hour after any compressed air at all has moved through the shelter. Trust me. This is a minimum with no exageration whatsoever. Beleive me, I dont want to track it around either. My only concern would be toward the parts of the hull that I have removed and am storing inside of the garage. And I'm sure that the dust is not able to go through 6 mil plastic.
However, the resin fumes are of great concern to me and a bridge that I have not yet crossed. I will without a doubt before any glassing is done and probably much sooner be adding a second ventilation fan and duct. If that doesn't contain the fumes adequately, then the project will cease. The familily will not be in the home while any glassing is being done. But with a serious fume issue, it will cease regardless.
So once again man, please don't take anything I've said as a complete disregard to your advice. I truly value your knowledge and experience and probably wouldn't be where I'm at on this without it. But I can not disassemble and move the gutted structure of the boat outside into the very probable risk of waking up to a thousand pounds or more of wet snow weight inside of a hull with no structure at all.
There has to be a way to get this done. Necessity is the true mother of all invention. I only wish our climate here was as moderate as yours is there. Living in this particular region is just going to create challenges for this project that I had no way of forseeing. I will just have to find a way to adapt to it, or junk the project altogether.

 

[maryhannaj]

Re: 1982 Glastron Hpv165 bass boat restoration.

Oh yeah jbcurt00. Thanks also. Very nice idea on the heat box. And I actually thought to pick up a bunch of packing blankets at harbor on Sunday when I went to buy my little boy his first real tool set for Christmas( can't wait to give it to him) but I didn't know if they would serve very well as insulation. Do they work pretty good for it?
My thoughts were to suspend them from the ceiling all around the boat just outside of the shelter to help keep the halogen heat from escaping. They were on sale too.
Today I didn't work the boat but I did pick up four 4x8 sheets of 1 inch polystyrene insulation and insulated the garage door panels with it. I noticed an immediate difference. I know it will still change with lower temps and air circulation but I figure every little bit counts. And I gotta keep workin on this heat retention problem as much as I can.
I think I'm also gonna wire two more dedicated 20 amp outlets into the garage for the sole purpose of running small space heaters. We'll see how that idea works out, but more heat out there means more power from the main box. And yes, my thought are towards the poly on the resin. Like you guys said, the price on the epoxy plus the freezing in transit problem kind of made that decision for me.
Thanks all!