1966 Starcraft Holiday Interior Work

[ShoestringMariner]

Looks like it’s taking shape. Is the foam going to support the aluminum sheet or will you be adding tubing, channel or angle?

 

[classiccat]

That corrugated plastic should do a great job keeping a nice cavity for drainage / airflow esp as it won’t compress downward!

Bummer on them screwing up your deck frame; it sounds like they’re making it right for ya.

Since you’ll be cutting the 2-part, look into ways to seal the cuts since you’re working in an open cavity; Epoxy might work here.

Pour-in is not the same as the foam board that we recommend (extruded polystyrene; XPS). They’re quite different actually.

XPS leaves no spaces between the cells…it’s these spaces that harbor the water. So it’s true that you will nick the outer monolayers of XPS cells when cutting (or melting with our hot wire cutters), there is literally nowhere for water to go beyond that monolayer of open cell.

The 2-part foam is an expanded polystyrene. Obviously this has a owens corning marketing spin on it but this explains the differences pretty well…and keep in mind that the EPS in this example was manufactured in a controlled environment.

So maybe for the sake of “Tinny Science”, you can perform a similar study?

 

[jbcurt00]

So I'm going to pour that on the sheet plastic and it can expand upward. If it comes up too high, it's ok to trim and cut it down. It's closed cell

Thats typically called Coroplast, sort of a plastic cardboard. The foam will go thru any nook and cranny, make sure its well sealed to keep the foam contained above the Coroplast.

Once you cut the over expanded pour in foam flush w the top of the stringers &/or backside of the deck(floor) ply, its not closed cell any more.

Deck framing looks substantial, and well thought out

Congrats on having a interested Admiral, mine wouldt have been agreeable to solid rivets once the cacophony of riveting started.

Making nice progress.

Hope the metal shop agrees to fix their mistake.

 

[66Holiday924]

Looks like it’s taking shape. Is the foam going to support the aluminum sheet or will you be adding tubing, channel or angle?

The foam is not meant to be structural in my boat, although it can be. The aluminum plating is riveted in the way the plywood decking was. I'm going to put plywood decking back over everything when I'm done. Actually, I'm thinking I should leave a gap between the plywood and the foam. I don't want water trapped against the wood.

That corrugated plastic should do a great job keeping a nice cavity for drainage / airflow esp as it won’t compress downward!

I think it should do the trick. I'm going to allow the foam to expand upward... It doesn't really weigh enough to hold it down. It might touch in spots but then you have the natural ventilation blowing on it, keeping it dry too.

Since you’ll be cutting the 2-part, look into ways to seal the cuts since you’re working in an open cavity; Epoxy might work here.

I'm going to use the Total Boat system I think. You don't have to seal it. Some people do out of caution but you don't have to. It's made up of a bunch of tiny bubbles or cells, like you're describing below. if you cut it, you open the cells that the knife went through, but all of the cells below it are intact and still closed, like scraping a layer off a bubble bath. It doesn't pop the whole bath, just what your hand swiped across. That's the beauty of a closed cell system. That's why pool noodles don't work, they're not closed cell. water will eventually completely saturate it. Anybody who has left one in their pool all summer knows that. XPS or pour in won't do that, even if you cut them, because they are made up of millions of little bubbles (closed cells), that the water can't penetrate.

Pour-in is not the same as the foam board that we recommend (extruded polystyrene; XPS). They’re quite different actually.

XPS leaves no spaces between the cells…it’s these spaces that harbor the water. So it’s true that you will nick the outer monolayers of XPS cells when cutting (or melting with our hot wire cutters), there is literally nowhere for water to go beyond that monolayer of open cell.

Total Boat is like 94% closed cell. XPS is probably more. XPS is a very well engineered material. 94% is pretty damn good though.

Thats typically called Coroplast, sort of a plastic cardboard. The foam will go thru any nook and cranny, make sure its well sealed to keep the foam contained above the Coroplast.

I didn't know what it's called. It seems like it'll serve my purpose. When I pour the foam, I was thinking do around the edges first, and kind of build a barrier where I don' t want it to go. Maybe use duct tape if I need to keep it out of crevices. There's no pressure on it because I'm going to give it room to expand in other directions. It'll take the route of least resistance.

Once you cut the over expanded pour in foam flush w the top of the stringers &/or backside of the deck(floor) ply, its not closed cell any more.

It's still closed cell. Cutting it doesn't affect the cells that weren't cut. That's the beauty of working with closed cell foam.

Deck framing looks substantial, and well thought out

Congrats on having a interested Admiral, mine wouldt have been agreeable to solid rivets once the cacophony of riveting started.

Thanks. She only had to do 3. It was cold, she hung in there though.

Making nice progress.

Hope the metal shop agrees to fix their mistake.

I hope they do too... We'll find out tomorrow.

 

[66Holiday924]

One of the things I don't know about XPS, is how it reacts with gas, oil and chemicals that get into a bilge. I can't find anything about that. The pour advertises that it is unaffected by gas and oil.

 

[BWR1953]

One of the things I don't know about XPS, is how it reacts with gas, oil and chemicals that get into a bilge. I can't find anything about that. The pour advertises that it is unaffected by gas and oil.

XPS dissolves, which is why I covered much of mine at the stern with HDPE (gasoline proof) bags.

 

[SHSU]

XPS dissolves, which is why I covered much of mine at the stern with HDPE (gasoline proof) bags.

View attachment 331646

If I didn't know better, looks like someone trying the smuggle some stuff under the deck.....

lol

Nice work!!!!

SHSU

 

[BWR1953]

If I didn't know better, looks like someone trying the smuggle some stuff under the deck.....

lol

Nice work!!!!

SHSU

 

[66Holiday924]

They're correcting the plating. I showed him the notes and without hesitation he said they'll make it right and apologized. Thank god some people still do the right thing. He's going to try to get them back to me before the weekend.

 

[66Holiday924]

I kind of regret that I'm not going to treat my rivets with Gluv-It... I replaced all the damaged and loose solid rivets that I could find. I wanted to treat it all with Gluv-It but I just don't have the conditions to clean it and prep it properly to apply the Gluv-It. I'm content with doing that next time I replace the decking If I do it at all.

After going through @classiccat 's build and seeing the corrosion he encountered, cause by epoxy, I'm not sure I want to use epoxy on my boat anymore. I'm definitely not going to apply it unless I feel good about the prep.

 

[SHSU]

I kind of regret that I'm not going to treat my rivets with Gluv-It... I replaced all the damaged and loose solid rivets that I could find. I wanted to treat it all with Gluv-It but I just don't have the conditions to clean it and prep it properly to apply the Gluv-It. I'm content with doing that next time I replace the decking If I do it at all.

After going through @classiccat 's build and seeing the corrosion he encountered, cause by epoxy, I'm not sure I want to use epoxy on my boat anymore. I'm definitely not going to apply it unless I feel good about the prep.

Yep, prep is key. I know I did a lot of work with wire wheels, degreaser, acetone, and Water/Vinegar mix to prep anywhere I put epoxy directly to the hull. Also sacrificial anode is a must regardless of fresh or saltwater.

SHSU

 

[ShoestringMariner]

I kind of regret that I'm not going to treat my rivets with Gluv-It... I replaced all the damaged and loose solid rivets that I could find. I wanted to treat it all with Gluv-It but I just don't have the conditions to clean it and prep it properly to apply the Gluv-It. I'm content with doing that next time I replace the decking If I do it at all.

After going through @classiccat 's build and seeing the corrosion he encountered, cause by epoxy, I'm not sure I want to use epoxy on my boat anymore. I'm definitely not going to apply it unless I feel good about the prep.

I’m not doing mine either. It’s 45 years old and might have the odd leaky rivet. But minor if at all.
Any substantial water in the bilge gets in there by rain and my crappy mooring covers anyway.

Maybe I’m lazy and I know I’m cheap, but the cost and many hours involved it making it super perfect is not worth it to me. A better cover and a bilge pump or two is.
Replacing corroded or damaged rivets with new solids and 5200, YES.
The rest of the $$$ can be better used on other things (IMO, no dis to those who swear on using gluvit...your ride, your choice)

 

[MNhunter1]

I'd highly suggest taking the time to apply Gluvit or Coat-it. With the floor out and other work being done, seems like a no brainer to me. I don't recall it being that tedious of a process. Almost like skipping the primer under paint...not a step I'd want to personally bypass.

 

[classiccat]

Apologies for my project scaring you away from the virtues of gluv-it!

The corrosion was severe on my build for a few reasons:

• they painted the stuff on and it flaked off in sheets (while other areas needed to be chiseled off)
• the stuff may have contained corrosive ingredients (possibly anti-fouling epoxy)
• I'm pretty sure my boat was used in brackish &/or saltwater.
• They also clogged the limber holes with it...so no drainage to the bilge
• Add all of the areas for water to access (stress cracks, broken spray rail, etc.)...perfect storm for corrosion.
• Oh...and the bilge pump didn't work.

You can be sort of surgical with application by using a syringe of some sort. I grabbed some catheter syringes off the the 'zon. I still had runs esp where I packed it into the double seams; they're low viscosity for good penetration. I suppose you can wipe-up the runs if they bother you.

 

[66Holiday924]

I'd highly suggest taking the time to apply Gluvit or Coat-it. With the floor out and other work being done, seems like a no brainer to me. I don't recall it being that tedious of a process. Almost like skipping the primer under paint...not a step I'd want to personally bypass.

I hear you, and it's not that I'm afraid of the work, but I don't have a shop. That stuff has to be applied under the right conditions and I can't affectively clean my boat and do the proper prep work in 10-30 degree weather. I'm not going to let it hold up my project. This is my only boat. I have a limited number of summers to enjoy it with my kids while they are little, and I'm going to do everything I can to have it ready to do that, this summer.

I don't have a bad problem with leaking and I've replaced the rivets that were issue. I'm good with that until the next time it has to be taken apart. At that point I'll have to weigh the pros and cons of using Gluv-It.

 

[66Holiday924]

I’m not doing mine either. It’s 45 years old and might have the odd leaky rivet. But minor if at all.
Any substantial water in the bilge gets in there by rain and my crappy mooring covers anyway.

I have pretty much the same thought on that. They work their way loose. Rivets come loose and leak... That's part of owning an aluminum boat to me. Every so often you have to replace plywood and rivets...

 

[66Holiday924]

Got my framing and most of the sheet plastic in (ran out). I think it's going to work out great. If everything goes well, I'm hoping to do the foam this weekend.

 

[SHSU]

That is some nice floor bracing you have there! Gives you plenty of room to secure the flooring.

Starting to see what you meant on your idea to keep the pour in foam off the aluminum. How you going to secure the sheet together? Tape/glue?

SHSU

 

[66Holiday924]

That is some nice floor bracing you have there! Gives you plenty of room to secure the flooring.

Starting to see what you meant on your idea to keep the pour in foam off the aluminum. How you going to secure the sheet together? Tape/glue?

SHSU

Thanks. I think it is going to do a great job of keeping the foam off of the aluminum and creating a cavity that will allow water to flow freely. It should stay pretty dry under there between that and the natural ventilation that I tucked under the sheet plastic.

The sheet plastic is wedged in there and it's staying in place pretty easily. Basically the pieces are cut oversized so they overlap each other by 6 inches to a foot, and they ride up the stringers. They're staying put pretty good. I was a little concerned about how well they'd stay put, but it's better than I expected. It turns out that the sheets are very rigid going lengthwise, but bend pretty easily side to side, so they hug the ribs, yet stay rigid to span them. I walked on them to get them to bend. I didn't want to fasten them in, and I put them in after the plating purposely, to make sure that I can get them out, without having to remove the aluminum framing, when the time to replace it comes some day, because that would defeat the purpose...

Ideally, when my deck rots some day, I can pull the plywood, inspect the foam, remove that, remove the plastic sheets and replace it all without ever removing the aluminum frame, just re-rivet any loose rivets in it. The idea was to quit drilling holes in the tips of my ribs.

 

[66Holiday924]

I got the rest of the sheet plastic in and I took a couple pictures to show what I mean about the plastic folded in so it rides up the stringers. It looks like this is going to be the weekend that I will get the buoyancy foam in. My plan is to drop the boat off inside the heated shop overnight, pour my foam the following morning let it sit until Monday.

When I pour my foam I'm going to strategically pour it where there is the potential for it spread beyond where I want it to go, like back by the engine compartment. I'll create a wall there with the foam, creating a border so it won't get in the bilge under the engine. It can always be trimmed too.