Winter refit - transom

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Quick update on the last couple days' work.

I've been working to get the last of the old wood and foam out of the bow.

Here's how it looks now:

Getting those "steps" out and the foam under them filled three 40 gallon trash bags, not including the stuff you see piled at the bottom of the pic.

I was able to "peel" some of the shelves on the sides of the hull off with a small crow bar... they came off with a minimum of damage to the hull glass. Poly just doesn't stick well unless it's wet on wet, and boy am I glad of that for this.

Along the front and port sides I still have part of the upper ledge to remove, that should hopefully peel off without too many problems.

Other than that (and the scraping all the little foam bits off) I just have the floor in front of the stringers to remove.. it's a piece of ply glassed on top of a little area of foam maybe an inch thick. It was originally in between the stringers, it just makes the sharp V of the hull there flat enough to walk on. I'm toying with the idea of filling the bottom of the V with epoxy putty, to avoid any possibility of it getting holed on a rock, plus it would stiffen the area even more than it is.

When that's out I'll clean up with a wire cup brush and a grinder, then figure out where to put the replacement stringer ends on.. I think I'll need about 3 feet of stringer per side.

I'm hoping to get a lot done this weekend... I took tomorrow off to try to get some real motion on this project. I'm feeling the time crunch again. I'd really like to get the bow cleaned out and get measurements done for the sides, which well tell me dimensions for the anchor well and fuel tank compartment in the bow. That will also let me size the seat "ribs" properly and get those cut.

If I can get the bulkheads and seats sized and cut and maybe some of them glassed in before monday, I'll be a happy man.


Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

And now for a nice before and after comparison... here's the bow after this weekend's grinding efforts:

Sorry if the pics in the rest of the thread are slow today.. I have a big download running at home, where the pics are hosted. This one is on photobucket.

The above work grinding the sides of the interior all the way around from stern to stern took me about three hours and change, and a total of about 9-10 flap discs, plus a new sawzall blade to remove little bits of shelf remaining.

I also picked up a "carbide cup disc" from harbor freight... about $6, this is a metal cup disc with carbide chips welded to it, 24 grit. Too rough for any finish work, but it chews through large chunks of wood and big lumps of glass easily, then I finish up with a flap disc.

As you can see in the pic I still have to do the hull bottom. I'm hoping to get that done tonight. Then I'll do a quick vacuum and go back to work in the stern, finishing the tidying up there before doing a thorough vacuuming and dust-off of the interior of the boat, then finishing the stern glass and cutting out some seat frames, bulkhead frames for the bow and maybe laying out the side panels.

I'm thinking I'll use a few pre-cut stringers from my scratch build project.. they're sitting around and should be usable in the right spot - the 5 or so foot stretch ahead of the end of the main stringers needs a backbone.

Erik

 

[maxum247]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Hull looks nice!

max!

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Okay, I got some of the more annoying work done on the weekend.

The hull is fully ground out now, ready for new glass work. I also cleaned out the hull with a broom, vacuum, and then compressed air:

Following that I cleaned up the front end of the stringers to get ready to cap and extend them. They're too short by two inches vertically, so I'm going to use a saw to shorten them to the nearest inch and flatten the top, then I'll cap them with more plywood glued with epoxy putty.

When I used a crowbar to do demo work on my deck I managed to pull some glass off one side of one stringer and delaminate the outer ply. I ground that to clean it up and injected some epoxy with a syringe to re-laminate it. I'll also re-do the covering glass once I add the cap piece.

I also drilled out and filled holes in the stringers that were there from mounting my fuel tank. Dumb to put holes in them, but it was my only option at the time. I had sealed them with 5200, so it was a pain to get the holes cleaned out. I overdrilled to 5/8" and filled with epoxy, so they're sealed now. I covered one end with black duct tape and filled from the other with a plastic bag of putty.

The black and white coloration around the stringers was from an early experiment with pigmented epoxy. Those areas are actually ground out and ready for more glass, even though they look somewhat rough.

I ground out the inside of the center bilge too, so I'm totally done with the big areas of grinding for now.

I also cut out my sterndrive hole. I used the holes from bolts in the outer skin as a guide, which was ok as far as it went. The saw blade bent a bit cutting, so on the inside the holes were too close to the edge of the hole. When I drilled them out oversize (from the inside this time) with a 1 inch bit I broke the edges of the hole in three places.

So I had to putty the edges when I did the holes.. basically build some of the edge back up with putty. I used a mix of milled fibers and phenolic bubbles in epoxy for this, and although it was super thick I used plastic spreaders to prevent major sags. I'll probably have to apply a bit more after some grinding clean-up to make the hole more even. The holes I'm not worried about because if they're in the right place and the outside skin is intact the transom will seal.

The main hole size actually isn't critical for the drive, just the placement of the bolt holes. As you can see I spread putty on the exposed transom ply to seal it well... I'll sand that flat and glass over it as a final measure of protection. I'm also going to use a paper template, compared against my actual bell housing, to make sure the holes are right.

I used some extra putty to shape the area around the garboard hole. I'll be mounting a brass tube in place there and finishing sculpting later on.

Here's a view of the whole boat, or as much as I can get in one pic. Looks very big now.

You can't tell from these pics but I spent several hours cleaning out dust and fiberglass and wood from my shop space... it was finally warm enough outside to pull off the insulation and open the garage door. Lots of dust got blown outside.

Next up is to finish shaping of the drive hole and redrill of those bolts, then the garboard tube, final glass work in the stern, and cutting of seat frames and forward frames.

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Forgot to mention - I also used a carbide disc to grind down the "extra" glass in the engine bilge so it was more level. I think it was a remnant from the way the old engine mounts were installed... thickest glass in the boat.

I'll probably put a layer of 1708 glass over the whole section there once I sculpt the garboard drain and finish the sterndrive hole. Just to be sure I'm not near anywhere I'd poke a hole through. I removed a LOT of glass there.

Erik

 

[SBTOM]

Re: Winter refit - transom

erik, nice to see that you are cruising right along on this thing... in those photos it looks like you really got that glass pretty smooth on the inside there!

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Hey erikgreen,
Looks good man.
Just a reminder, I'm sure you know but, at the top of the outdrive key hole you need to cut out room for you steering arm, If you don't you won't get full travel on your steering. Like I said, just a reminder.
Bob

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Thanks for the reminder Bob - I'll pull out the merc docs and check to make sure I have clearance.

My putty job hardened nicely so I'm going to go back tonight and do a bit more shaping.

Erik

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Hey erikgreen,
I sent you a PM with a link to some additional info that I thought you might find useful.
Good Luck
Bob

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Yep, got it... thanks! I'd forgotten the bevel thing on top. I'm still working on cleaning up the opening so I should be able to do that, no problem.

I spent last night cutting out seat frames/ribs. Here's a pic of the first three (of eight total) in place:

The idea is that they're ribs that extend up to support a seat between each pair. The lowest part, against the stringer, is at deck level (I still need to put the cap on the stringer to make it high enough). The part extending up to a corner is the seat base. It's about 14 inches deep and sits 12 inches off the deck... not exactly an easy chair. Each seat is 2 feet wide, however. I wanted them low to keep the center of gravity down, especially when I have 6 passengers. I can't have them extend out much more than that otherwise there won't be any space to walk in front of them.

Each between ribs space will be covered on the lowest part by the deck, a vertical section on the front of the seat base, and a hinged cushion on the seat. The backrest will probably be a hollow space with a couple "bar" cushions over it to allow things to be stuffed in there but still dry in the air.

So each seat will flip up and permit access to the hollow inside the base that extends down into the bilge area.

There will be three seats on the starboard side beginning back near the engine bulkhead, and three to port offset two feet forward to allow space near the transom door and boarding area. I may or may not put one more seat to the front of the console, I'll have to see.

With these 6 I should be able to carry 6 divers with gear fairly comfortably. Plus these also give me a reinforcing rib every two feet in the midsection that will stiffen the hull a lot.

Erik

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Hey erikgreen,
It looks pretty good and sound like a good plan.
Keep the pic's coming.
Bob

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Will do. I have a long weekend starting tomorrow, so I'm hoping to get some serious progress made.

Last night I cut and laminated the "caps" for the stringers.. I put the stringers in two years ago so they're solid, but they're two inches shorter than my new deck, so I had to extend 'em. I'll get the caps glued on tonight nice and level and maybe template some more seat frames.

I also need to get the framing worked out for the fuel tank, which is forward of the existing stringers. The tank I have is a little too big to fit under decks. I was going to mount it crosswise (transverse) but I decided not to. I may get a new fuel tank or find a way to mount it higher up, we'll see.

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Update time... I got a fair amount done this weekend, although only some of it on the boat.

I finally figured out a good way to do the bow section... I'd known I wanted an anchor locker with its own drain, but beyond that I had only a vague idea. The need to fit my existing fuel tank in and a desire to not fit it crosswise drove me to come up with this:

Basically the tank will sit ahead of its old (black) compartment. The stringers toward the bow are 5 inches higher than the deck aft of them... that's about halfway up the hull. So the deck halfway up from the stern will "step" up 5 inches, then after another 5 feet step up again, either half or all the way to the height of the bow.. I'll probably put a ladder there somewhere near the bulkhead I have tacked in place (note the clamps and such... none of this is permanent yet). The white thing is the template for the back of the anchor locker.

So basically as the hull rises to the bow the deck steps up to it, giving me space in the bow for the fuel tank under decks, some storage on either side of it, more storage in the second step, and my anchor locker in the bow. I'd get some space under decks without the steps, but not a usable amount, and I'd have to build a big ladder to get from the main deck level to the foredeck height. So this seems like a good compromise.

I've cut the bottom of the anchor locker and glassed the underside... it's laid in place in the pic (hard to see, it's at the level of the crossbeam on the white template). Note that it's higher to starboard than port, so it'll drain. Once it's glassed in place I'll drill a drain hole at the lowest point on the bottom and put a through-hull fitting there.

The bottom of the anchor locker is higher than the level of the bow eye, so I'll retain access to the back side of that as part of the compartment behind the locker.

That compartment will be divided by two stringer-like longitudinal bulkheads running from the back of the anchor locker to the bulkhead in the pic. Plenty of support for the bow.

I also made a couple fiberglass molds (well, half made, there's more work to do). I've got one I'll use to make I-beam type stiffeners for the deck and sides, and one for forming hatch gutters (that may or may not work - it's an experiment). Once the glue dries I still have to fair them and coat with epoxy or polyurethane. I'll use wax and PVA as mold release.

I'm starting to think about what from and how I'll make the new gunwales...

Erik

PS: Other than boat work I cleaned up my garage, built a stand for an old boat engine (graymarine 215) I'm selling, built a test stand for my outboard, got my metal supply sorted out so I can go back to welding soon, and cleaned up my kitchen and living room to get rid of a lot of fiberglass dust. Whew.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

I decided to extend the bulkhead I have there up to the new sheer line (the top of the gunwales once I put the new top panel on).

So I've spent a day figuring out height of the new top panels stern to bow, and I'm going to use the existing bulkhead I cut as a template for the new full height one.

This will give me a 6 foot deep foredeck at the bow. I'll have the anchor locker up front, with a center deep storage well behind it and two storage areas to port and starboard of that accessed via hatch doors in the new bulkhead. I'll put a short step ladder on either side to enable the climb to the foredeck.

I also figured out that since the old flange on the lower hull (the lower half of the old hull/cap joint) doesn't match the line for the new top panel that it has to come off... to make it even all the way around height wise it has to come off the whole hull.. so looks like another evening with the saw for me, followed by some itching.

I contacted the state of MN about the hull... they decided there's so little left of the original boat that it's now a new boat... 2010 vintage, with a new hull number. I'll register it and get a new title as a "homemade" boat soon.

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Frustrating day... I took yesterday afternoon off to try to make some good progress but didn't. I'm sort of handicapped by not having a lot of epoxy around, but my order is on its way. I was hoping to get it by next weekend, but it looks like it'll be here for the weekend after that.

I cut off the flange left by the old top cap attachment all the way around the hull. This lets the line of the lower hull guide attachment of the new top panels, but it also took away some stiffness. After I cut the flange the hull sagged just a little bit in the bow. I need to jack up the hull a few inches more so the cutwater area isn't resting on the floor and it'll straighten out.

I did get the new, higher bulkhead fitted in that area, so I may try to use what resin I have to glass it in place (and attach it to the stringers) so the hull holds its shape. Probably I'll re-do the anchor locker back bulkhead for a better fit and re-do the floor of the locker too for the same reason. That will complete the interior hull structure except for the deck.

After that... I've only got about four weekends left to make my completion deadline, not gonna happen.. I'll get things done as quick as I can, though.

Next steps... get the seats and bulkheads glassed in place, get the new side panels roughed in and glued on (though not glassed yet) and simultaneously work on molding fiberglass supports for the new sides. After that I still have some fairing of the inner hull, bilge painting, the deck, fairing the sides, hatches, hardware, painting, the engine re-install, the center console... man, I've got to get moving faster

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Another boring no pics update

I got the hull re-leveled last night higher up, which fixed most of the spreading issue I was having. It also made one of the bulkheads I'd cut the night before fit better.

Then I templated and cut a new bottom for the anchor well, the back bulkhead for the anchor well, and the port and starboard mini-stringers that run between the two forward bulkheads.

I've got them all laid out on plastic and I'll laminate one side of each with one layer of 1708 tonight. Probably I'll spend the rest of tonight finishing seat framing so that can go in soon, too, and maybe a bit more work on the transom.

With a little luck I'll have the interior structure of the boat completed by Saturday except for glassing it in, at which point I can work on the new side panels.. I won't have my new resin shipment by then, unfortunately.

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Some days I think this seems more like a blog of my boat work and less like a bulletin board... I suppose that's because I'm not posting enough pics.

Well, I didn't take any pics last night, but I'll post a couple today, sort of.

Last night I spent cutting glass to shape and laminating one side of two bulkheads, two short stringer pieces and a compartment bottom. I used 1708 with epoxy... I would have skipped the mat but the local store doesn't carry DB1700. At least I can be sure it'll adhere well

Tons of resin though.. laminating five panels, maybe 45 square feet of glass, cost me about four liters of resin.

I used peel ply over the top of the glass and epoxy to give me a nice surface for further lamination.

I also used most of the rest of my epoxy. I think I'll use what's left to finish the joint between the old stringers and the new, with a butt block and putty. I expect my new shipment of resin to arrive from USComposites today, but in case it doesn't I have a plan - I'll finish the stringers then work on my new console over the weekend - I'm using poly for that since I'm going to gelcoat it when it's done, and I can work outside.

Here's a pic to give you all an idea of what I'm doing with the top hull panel... this is from someone else's scratch build project for a 19 foot V hull. Basically I'm attaching a panel about 14-18 inches tall and 22 feet wide just like the top panel on the side of this hull:
(not my boat or my pic)

(photos belong to gerry @ the bateau.com boards, an Aussie)

The idea is simple... you have a 1/4" ply board (in my case baltic birch) that you cut to width so it forms the sheer you want (I'm going for a slow rise from stern to bow, nothing fancy). Then you attach it to the existing panels overlapped on the lower part by about 4-6 inches. I'll be beveling the lower edge, gluing it with peanut butter putty, and clamping with through bolts or a similar setup.

I'll trim as needed to form the sheer line I want, hopefully I can get this set before I put the panels on the boat, since it'll be easier to make the sides match that way.

Once the panels are glued on I'll glue on an edge about 4-6 inches wide on top at a right angle, pushing inward, and fillet that. After that I'll put a batten at right angles to that to limit water flow. Kinda like the deck/edge on this boat (another one from the bateau board):
(again, not my boat)

Then once all that's in place on the sides I'll be covering them with biax cloth, probably two layers of DB1200 running from several inches below the lower edge of the new sides up the panels, over the corner to the top and if possible up to the coaming. That'll attach the top panel well, but I'll still need some bracing on the inside.

I've decided to mold some support "beams" from poly and scrap glass. I've made a mold about 5 feet long with a 2 inch board standing vertically. That should give me a "rib" like you see in aluminum boats with a couple inches of flange on either side (like an inverted T). 5 or 6 of those parts per side should be plenty of reinforcement.

So, I still have big plans. I'm making progress though.. it feels rather good to look and see results of my work curing on the floor instead of just seeing my hull look a bit smoother.

More real pics of my boat soon.

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Fun weekend...

I spent friday night and saturday in a marathon session on the boat - I got my shipment of epoxy friday, and I ran through half of it in those two days... and this time I was being careful not to waste it.

I started out by finishing the lamination of the various bulkheads and structural members I'd cut last week. They're covered by 1 layer of 1708 fabric on each side, hand laminated with a roller.

On a side note, I've found a roller is both much faster and much more efficient than a brush or squeegee for laminating and tabbing. With the brush I always end up with pools of resin running and hardening, and I get much less of that with the roller.. I still get some because I'm working as fast as I can instead of being as stingy as I can. I did all my work this weekend with the high density 1 inch foam rollers from Home Depot.

Saturday I did a final fitting, cut a limber hole then placed the forward #2 bulkhead in place in the hull, using wood flour in epoxy for putty. It took about a pound of wood flour in 1 liter of epoxy total to make a nice thick putty glue... much less powder than doing the same with milled fibers.. I'm going to use wood flour as much as possible as a filler from now on, it saves a ton of time and money over other putty fillers.

I formed the fillet for the bulkhead and tabbed it in place with 3 layers of 12 oz biaxial glass tape.. I bought some rolls of this pre-cut a while back, it's handy. I did both sides with the tape, so now the bulkhead is in place and laminated with 1708 on its sides and tabbed with DB1200.

Note: I wanted to save resin and putty filler, so wherever possible (wherever there was a half inch gap) I trimmed some pieces of foamular (pink) foam to size and stuffed the gap. So my bulkhead doesn't touch the hull but I also don't have to use gallons of putty to fill the gaps.

Provided the pink foam strips didn't project out at a corner or end the putty then covered them over nicely to form a fillet. Putty savings added up, especially since bedding the new stringer sections would have taken 3-4 quarts of putty.

After the bulkhead I glassed in place the bottom of the anchor locker in the bow from the top - I'll reach under and tape the bottom too.

Then I got back in the boat for the main job - foam, putty, and glass to hold the new stringer section in place. These are extensions of the existing stringers to the new bulkhead location. They're doubled laminated ply that's cut to form a higher deck level ahead of the location where they start... this lets me mount my fuel tank under decks nearer the bow than it was before.

Here's a pic of the work from the aft of the boat:

Messy looking I know. But, it's all in and solid. The stringer sections may look crooked/off, but they're aligned with the old sections and level and vertical. They're tabbed in with 3 layers of 12 oz biax tape and also tabbed to the bulkhead with the same.

I'm next going to finish cleanup on the joint between old and new, then I'll be placing butt blocks on either side of the joint with more putty and glass to make it solid. I'll use half inch ply sections for that.

Then after I clean up and sand some more I'll be covering the new and old stringers with a layer of DB1700 half way up and another layer all the way up and covering them. That'll finish the stringer glass.

I have a couple short "stringer" sections that are basically longitudinal bulkheads running between the front of the #2 bulkhead and the that have yet to go in. Once they're glassed in place along with the #1 bulkhead at the back of the anchor locker, the bow structure is done.

Here's a quick drawing of what I ended up with for a layout. The areas marked S are going to be under-decks storage and the W is a deep storage area for scuba tanks. Underneath this foredeck there's about 3 feet and change of space down to the keel, so plenty of space to keep things.

In this drawing black are the "old" (2 years old) stringer sections, blue are the new ones, green is the aft/engine bulkhead, and the #1 and #2 bulkheads are sandwiching the S/W/S space. the triangular area ahead of the #1 bulkhead is the anchor well, which will be about 20 inches deep. I may put a partition in there to separate rope and chain from a spare anchor, or to keep extra line separate from the main anchor line.

Then it's just the seat frames and short ribs along the sides to stiffen the hull, and I'm done with structure for now and can work on the side panels.

Phew. More work done, more to go.

This morning I bit the bullet and ordered 10 lbs more wood flour and a full 100 lb roll of biaxial glass. I ran through my locally bought 1708 really fast, and although I paid only about $10 a yard for it, buying a full roll will cost me only $5.25 a yard, and I'll save more than that in epoxy.

I'll probably have to order one more 7 gallon kit of epoxy before I finish this project - that'll make a total of about 20 gallons since last November.

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

So, last night I was feeling a bit out of it, not wanting to go to help with the class I usually help with, and I decided to work on the boat and make some more progress.

I found out the hull is in exactly the right shape now and is held in place by the new #2 bulkhead. So that's good. But, the #1 bulkhead that I had cut and laminated is now a little bit the wrong shape.. my own weight must have distorted the hull a bit while I was templating.

So I took my last partial sheet of plywood and cut a new #1 bulkhead on a new template. This is the third time I've cut this one (first one was ok but too short, second one now doesn't fit).

Since I have to be able to reach the back of the bow eye I needed to cut a hole in the back of the bulkhead for access. I was going to do this on the laminated one last night before glassing it in.

I decided I'd make it a really nice, neat square hole with rounded corners. I measured with a ruler, marked the radii of the corners, cut with a jigsaw, and ended with a perfect hole. I thought I'd use the scraps of 1708 fabric to glass it since I'm out of whole fabric ATM.

I checked it for fit in the boat... the edges were right on to within a quarter inch, perfect... but the hole bridged the area of the bow eye, the back of the anchor locker floor, and left a four inch airspace into the anchor locker... which needless to say isn't waterproof. Duh. Hole is much too big and too high. It does look nice, though

So after that I figured I wasn't together enough to work on the boat without causing problems, and I went off to play computer games.

I'll get some more plywood today, and get back at it

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Got more plywood, re-cut the #1 bulkhead, and started laminating it with the glass I had on hand - 2 layers of 8 oz fabric with a reinforcing 1 foot strip of 1708.

Today my new roll of cloth arrives, should make things easier, or at least stronger

I also made a new plug for some hollow fiberglass ribs.. I'm hoping to pull a mold from it that will form 3/4" thick by 3 inch deep by about 4 foot tall ribs with a flange on top to support the cap. If it works I'll mold about 10 of the things to stiffen the boat sides and support things... much more uniform and better looking than wood.

Erik