Winter refit - transom

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Phew... a trip to the bahamas, a decompression diving class, cleaning the basement and garage out (6 truckloads worth) further building permit work, a new car, and partial demolition of my patio.

I hope spring is over, it made me tired

I just got back to the boat... chase tubes are installed, further glassing is going on... next up are battery box mounts and fuel tank mounts, plus some glassing of various structural bits.

Pics when I have some to show

Erik

PS: I didn't stop buying parts (should have, though I got a new intake and carb (edelbrock), fuel pump (electric) and a shift interrupter plate to replace the one I dropped last fall.

 

[Willyclay]

Re: Winter refit - transom

I saw some current posts by you in other threads indicating you are still alive. Glad to know that! Anything to show and tell us on your SeaRay project?

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

I haven't taken any pics recently, but here's a summary of where the project is at:

* Glassed most of the under deck structure for waterproofing/strength
* Molded and attached transom fiberglass outer skin
* Molded engine air intake feeds, working on dorade box molds
* Installed 80% of chase tubing, more going in
* Glued on sacrificial blocks for screwing wire/cable supports to hull, will glass
* Created one more set of deck support pieces for the transition between the low and high deck section
* Made the fuel tank supports, laminated, now glued in place awaiting glass
* Glued the gunwales I'd molded in place on the rear half of the hull
* Made one more set of short ribs to stiffen the hull forward... probably not needed, but just in case. The seat boxes will do a lot to connect the hull sides to the deck.
* Bought stainless hinges for my deck hatches plus new intake louvers


I also made a checklist of items to finish before I can pull the boat outside for the outer hull work - I have about 10-12 items to go, including stuff like the engine air intakes and engine well fairing, plus the deck itself. I estimate a minimum of three weeks to do all that.

But.. I also made a big score buying parts... I found a damaged Bayliner with a good Volvo DP drive train in it that I'll be swapping over to my project boat.. also stuff in it like insulation for the engine compartment, maybe the trim tabs, stainless cleats, engine controls, manifolds for my engine, and a lot of other stuff. Basically I took care of most of the parts I was still planning to buy in one big lump, and I will make the money spent back on the rest of the Bayliner parts... or if I have a major lapse in judgment, when I rebuild and sell the Bayliner

So my current plan is to finish the under deck items, paint the bilge, install the deck (and maybe make the hatches) and then move the boat outside and put it on a rotisserie thing so I can roll it and sand/paint the hull.

After that will come the engine install and interior finishing.

Pics when I remember to take 'em

Erik

 

[Willyclay]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Thanks for the update. Great find on the Bayliner. Hang in there, the end is in sight!

 

[jonesg]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Not sure whats worse, lengthening a hull or raising gunnels.
I'm learning to limit my projects.

 

[redfury]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Not sure whats worse, lengthening a hull or raising gunnels.
I'm learning to limit my projects.

Maybe someone will shorten a hull and lower the gunnels

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Hey, maybe I can turn that 28 footer into a short, fat 14 for lake use.

 

[redfury]

Re: Winter refit - transom

it wouldn't be tippy, that's for sure! Speaking of tippy, I gotta flip this 17 foot long hull of mine now that I got the deck in

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

I could make it so short that it'd be tippy fore and aft

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Okay, time for another update. I promise pics really, really soon... I've been taking them here and there as I work, I just haven't gotten them together for a post yet.

I'd like to point out that the title of my thread is "Winter refit" but this does not mean I'm late. I didn't specify *which* winter, after all

I've been busy with the boat, but I've also pulled the engine and drive from the bayliner, cleaned out and put new shelves in my garage to hold the spare parts I pull off of it, done test molds of fiberglass panels for my new interior, vacuum bagged some sample layups for my deck, repainted my house, held a large party, and generally enjoyed the end of summer

Where I'm at with the boat now: I have the interior structure except the bow done.. I'll finish the bow once the boat is outside, there's no room in my shop.

I have the rear gunwales and the transom top on, they're mostly level too. I am going to finish the gunwales before she goes outside. I laid up the connecting pieces from sides/transom last night, and I'll add more layers from the outside and in once the molds are removed, I want the corners very strong.

I test fit the fuel tank in its new location, it fits like a dream (well, if I dreamed of a fuel tank). Its aft end sits where the forward end used to, so that weight will be farther forward.

I'm going to mold seats in such a way that they reinforce the sides of the boat, that's going to come after the hull is painted I think.

Between now and when the boat comes outside I need to assemble the chase tubes (which are laid out and holes cut, just need to glue 'em), sand and fair the bilge, paint those sections too, another layer of glass on the aft gunwale/transom joint, and then the majority of the deck will go on.

I had molded some dorade (vent) boxes and fiberglass vents with great care, but assembling them I decided it was too much work for little gain, so I'll just use the conventional plastic boxes with marine grade dryer vent. I'll be covering the hoses in the interior with a hollow fiberglass panel in that part of the boat.

The deck will be wood free. I'm going to build epoxy composite panels using plascore, basically a polypropylene plastic honeycomb covered with fiberglass on both sides, probably about 4-6 12 oz layers of biaxial on each side. This will be lighter than a plywood core, stiffer, more impact resistant, and will never rot. On the downside it will also require more work to mount things into/on it.

Brochure is here: http://www.plascore.com/pdf/PP_Honeycomb.pdf

Cost is between high end exterior ply and low end marine ply.

The hatches will be done similarly, possibly with a plywood core if I run out of polycore. Hatches are easier to replace if they rot, plus the weight helps keep them in place.

I have stainless steel hinges for the hatches, so I'll be mounting those flush to the deck. The hatches will sit in gutters molded into the decking for the most part. I also have a couple of inspection plates (the round type) that I'll put in a couple key locations.

Once the deck is in (but the hatches won't be) and the interior is basically together, I'll pull the boat outside on its dollies. To do that I have to take part of the garage apart (the boat got wider while I rebuilt it) and replace the door after.

Once the boat is outside I'll mold the bow, trim the forward sheer height, install the foredeck, finish the bow structure inside, then flip the hull on a rotisserie and start sanding and painting. Once the hull bottom is done, I'll flip it upright for finishing the interior, engine and console install, and final fit-out. Depending on how fast I get the hull bottom done and the weather, it may stay upside down until spring :\

But, I decided a while back to finish the boat right and not hurry along for the sake of getting in the water this year. I still have to refurbish my Volvo Penta drive and transom anyway.

I've started thinking I can fit the boat in one side of my detached garage on the rotisserie, so I can keep the snow off and keep working after it gets cold out.

Erik

 

[tinkeringwackyone]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Glad to hear progress is being made, sounds like you have been busy as well. project really looks good. tink

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Ooookay. I keep forgetting to take some overall pics and bring the "story" of this boat up to where it currently sits... but, I promised pics, so I'll go with what I have for now.

For starters, here's the transom assembly that'll go on this boat once it's refurbed. It's currently in the transom of a 28 foot bayliner in my driveway.

Most of the gunk you see isn't corrosion, it's dried algae from when the boat was in the water. The bellows were ok but not great, and I may have to replace the U-joint on the drive. Those hydraulic cylinders better be usable... replacements are $1k a pop!

I love working with the VP stuff so far... coming from the Mercruiser way of doing things, VP is sooo much easier.

On to the boat itself:

The test fit of the fuel tank went well (once I'd extended the mounting space for it and moved a bulkhead). It's going to sit forward of where it was, basically the aft end is 6 inches ahead of where the forward end previously was. I'm doing this to help balance the boat.. since I removed the cuddy and I'm putting all new interior structure in, I'm trying to weight it evenly as much as I can. Time will tell if it works.

Worst case I'll end up putting ballast somewhere in the boat to make it ride correctly.

The empty space right behind the fuel tank is where the battery box will mount. Initially it'll be one group 27, but eventually there will also be 3 group 31s there to power a big trolling motor that will function as a backup drive for the boat. Stay tuned while I figure out how to charge all those at the same time.. good thing the engine has a 100 amp alternator.

Since I'm trying to get the deck on and the interior ready for fit-out and finishing before I take the boat outside to do the hull, I wanted the engine air intakes ready to go.

They're sort of hard to design because I narrowed the gunwales in the rear and added on a few inches of freeboard to make up for the missing top cap. I had thought I wanted to use hard vents, making my own dorade boxes and fiberglass ducts:

But after spending a week and a half on and off making the things, I decided they weren't really getting me any advantage and kicked the idea to the curb. I'll leave the holes for the vents there and fit plastic dorade boxes to them when I fit out the interior, and run standard vent hoses down to the deck and inward to the edges of the engine compartment. I'll cover up the hoses with a fiberglass shroud of some kind.

I'm planning on doing the interior, including the shroud, with prefab panels I make on a glass table top. Basically I can mold a flat panel with gelcoat on and glue it into place, no fairing required. I have been doing this on a waxed MDF surface and getting ok results, but I have been planning to make really shiny panels using glass for a table for a while.

I was overly optimistic my first try with the glass, which led me to skip PVA and just use Partall #2 wax. Partall #2 really isn't meant for solo use like that, although it will work ok if applied thick enough. But, my gelcoat clung to the glass, meaning I wasted a quart of gelcoat trying this, and I ruined the glass I was using too.. good thing the door it came from has another piece:

So, where I'm at for the moment is I'm glassing over bits of epoxy coated plywood in the under decks with scraps of mat and cloth, basically ensuring everything stays waterproof long term.

Once that's done I'll finish fairing the areas that are going to be visible (mainly the engine compartment, transom, battery area, and fuel tank compartment, plus a couple storage spots and do a final sand down of the under decks:

You can see here I've applied a first layer of resin with glass microbubbles that I'm using for fairing... I bought a big bag of microbubbles a while back so I could do this cheaply.

Once the fairing and sanding are done, I'll be painting the bilge with an epoxy paint, either Sherwin-Williams pre-cat water based epoxy (which I have some of) or S-W tile clad, which is a two part epoxy that's solvent based. Either one is cheaper than bilgekote or a similar paint, and I think just as tough or tougher in this application.

After painting comes cleats (not the metal kind, you'll see) and deck supports (some right angle pieces I'll attach to set the deck level).

Then comes the deck, which I'm going to lay up outside the boat in pieces from the plastic honeycomb I mentioned.

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Oopsie, forgot a couple things.

In that last pic you can see the transom, where there are a couple paper mixing cups sitting on top. They're sitting on a cap piece I molded using a one-off mold with some poly resin, cloth, and mat. Basically it's a skin for the upper part of the transom.

The plywood exposed below it won't be exposed once I fit out the interior... there'll be a couple shelves there for various things and the plywood will either be glassed to protect it or to attach other parts. It's not actually part of the transom, it's meant as a core for the "cap" part of the transom. If it was easier to remove (it's epoxied on) I'd consider pulling it off and doing things another way. Oh, well.

I also forgot this:

This piece is on the starboard aft corner, to the right is forward along the starboard gunwale.

To attach the gunwales I molded to the new transom I needed to fill a gap, so I used a piece of formica as a mold on the outside and laid up about 8 layers of cloth to make this piece. I'll be eventually sanding the outside to flush fit an epoxy/biax patch or three to overlap it with the gunwales ahead of it and the hull below it.

I'm also going to overlap another set of layers inside to tie the sides and transom together in this top 6 inches as well as possible. Basically the transom corners will be solid glass, made from epoxy and biaxial.

Not sure what I'm doing on the top edge there yet to tie the 6 inch wide sides to the 3 inch transom top. Probably the inner transom fit-out will cover that with a top that's padded or something, so I'll probably leave the top edge this way until the hull bottom is painted and I fit out the interior.

Onward and upward...

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Another quick update.

I spent the weekend and part of this week on related projects along with boat work, so not a ton done. But, I did get the mounting blocks for cables and such glassed in.

Basically they're little pyramids of oak that are glued on and glassed over wherever I'll need to mount something like a bilge pump or a heavy cable bundle. That way, I can drill/screw into them, seal them, and if the worst happens and they leak I can just replace the block, not part of the boat's structure.

Along with the blocks I also epoxied glass onto the little bits of wood that won't have other structure covering them, like the motor mounts and the two aft ribs poking above deck. They're strong enough already, but the glass will protect them from abrasion and water. On top of the glass I'm also going to have some epoxy based fairing putty and two coats of epoxy based paint.

I also started the major grinding job of fairing the inside of the hull. I'm shaping the bilges, removing extra resin that ran down and puddled from a few things, getting rid of hardened bits of putty, grinding off bits of glass sticking up, etc.

I spent what time I had left on sanding my first coat of fairing putty on the transom. I just have a few spots to re-putty and sand, then it'll be ready for paint.

I'm going to finish the grind then finish fairing some spots, then I'll be painting the whole bilge with white epoxy paint, gluing on the cleats, then onward to the deck.

Erik

 

[Willyclay]

Re: Winter refit - transom

I just have a few spots to re-putty and sand, then it'll be ready for paint. Erik

Time for one BIG attaboy!

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Thanks Willy

I spent a lot of time over the weekend (well, Sat. at least. Sunday I had to help a friend winterize his 30 footer) sanding and grinding.

I did an overall sanding down of the entire inside of the hull, including all fiberglassed plywood structure. Basically I wanted each compartment of the hull either ready to paint or ready for fairing putty... I'm going to use a microbubble/resin mix to fair the visible areas... the engine, battery, and fuel tank bilges.

Then I put the first coat of Sherwin-Williams pre catalyzed industrial epoxy paint on the areas I'm not fairing. It's nice stuff, low VOC, meant to go on thick, and is very tough (I painted my front door a year ago with some extra and I still can't scratch it). I'll probably need to pick up another gallon to finish the under-decks. Cost is about $50 a gallon.

So far, so good - here's a pic of what I got painted. The unpainted areas should get a coat of fairing putty tonight.

This pic is looking diagonally forward/port near the stern on the starboard side.

There are some spots I discovered while painting where I'll do a touch-up with a grinder before the next coat... stuff like a chip of wood embedded in resin that ran down the hull, or an edge of fiberglass cloth sticking up. I also need to coat the insides of the chase tube holes a couple times... they're already epoxy peanut buttered but I'll add more protection.

You can see the shelf for the battery box (the first one, anyway) in the center section near my discarded glove. I'm going to sand and fair that a bit before fairing the whole compartment.

It's going to look pretty good when I finish the under decks painting..

Erik

 

[Mark42]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Eric,

Been watching the progress on your boat for a while. I have to say you are doing a fabulous job. Outstanding!

Can't offer any comments on the outdrive and such because I don't have experience with that drive system. But the rest of the work is first class.

Looking forward to more pics.

Mark.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Thanks, Mark. I've been going fairly slow on this thing, but I decided last spring to not rush and do it right, so I've been really pretty anal about getting all the details nice, re-doing sections when needed, and not skipping boring work.

I've gotten the second coat of paint done on the non accessible compartments now. Basically if a compartment will be accessible via a hatch or otherwise visible once the deck is on I'm fairing it before painting. If a compartment is non accessible I've just sanded it and painted.

Here's a pic:

I got the chase tube holes coated and most of the limber holes this time, although I discovered a couple spots I wanted to put more glass onto, so I did that. I'll have to trim the glass tonight and putty to fair it before I paint over it.

The accessible sections in the center of the hull (from fore to aft: Fuel tank, battery, engine bilge) are getting fairing putty spread on that I'll sand, then add another layer as needed before painting. I like a smooth, shiny bilge

The white stuff in the forward area center is just epoxy/microbubble mix. Cheap. But in the aft of the battery compartment (left center of this pic) I've tried out a canned fairing compound called "quick fair". That's the yellowish stuff.

It spreads a lot easier than the epoxy and a little goes a long way. When I bought it I actually thought I was getting a different epoxy based product, this stuff seems to be just like lightweight auto body filler. It's made by a company in Michigan and you just add benzoyl peroxide to it as a catalyst to kick it off. Hardens in about 20 minutes. It's basically a poly resin with fillers blended into a cream.

Edit: I found out the stuff is similar to the "Adtech #14" filler, which is used on aircraft and in molds. Anyone know how good it is?

Edit edit: Found the vendor listing for it. It's apparently a VinylEster paste with catalyst. As far as I can tell it's identical to the cheap "Ultra lightweight body filler" I can get for $6 a can at Fleet farm. Comments?
http://www.adtechplastics.com/pc-1414-13-p-75-quickfair.aspx


Anyway, if it works as well as it looks like it will I'll get more and use it elsewhere, probably also as a second coat for the epoxied areas. It's supposed to bond to epoxy, metal, whatever just fine.. I guess we'll see.

Once all this hardens it's sanding time, plus I'm going to pick up more paint tonight. So let's see.. sanding, clean up limber holes, one more coat of fairing, more sanding, paint, then deck.

Phew.

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Oof. It's been a while since I posted, so here's an update.

I had taken some pics for this, but I forgot my camera's download cable, so they'll have to wait.

A few days after my last post, I caught a nasty cold that's been going around the state. I spent a week in bed plus part of last week on partial work days getting over it. It's still not quite gone.

While I was sick I didn't do too much with the boat, but I'm starting to pick things up again.

In the last week I've spent a little time here and there plus I spent a lot of time on it yesterday.

Stuff I got done:

• Re-cut the limber holes with a 3 inch hole saw where I'd fixed the glass near them. Much better now, still need to re-resin them to waterproof the holes.
• Cut, laminated, and installed two panels at the rear of the engine mount stringers and deck supports. These fit in between the knees for the engine stringers, the deck supports next to them, and go halfway up the engine stringers. I was going to close this off with a removable panel to preserve engine access, but this is much stronger and more waterproof in that area (pics coming soon)
• Cut from some structural aluminum and a spare piece of plate the parts I need for my davit crane base. This base bolts into the transom, engine mounts, and one rib at the starboard rear of the deck, and will support my hydraulic crane. The supports bolted in place are 1/4 inch aluminum angle and they hold a piece of 1/2 Al plate more or less at deck level. I'll put an inspection hatch nearby so I can reach under there and hold nuts in place to bolt the crane on. The aluminum plate will be strong enough to double as a lift point for the hull, although it's off center.
• I bought a cheap soda blaster and cleaned off the aluminum for the above, plus I removed the corrosion, dirt, and paint from my new sterndrive. It needs some additional work with a sanding pad in the more pitted areas, but once that's done I'll fill a bit with epoxy putty made from Aluminum powder and prime with zinc chromate. Then it'll be time to send it off for a re-seal.
• I also have been working on fixing up my air compressor, which has been sort of working for a while. I wanted drier air and more of it because I'll need it for sanding the hull. I had partial success, but I still wish I had a bigger compressor.
• Cut and glued in place cleats along the top edges of most of the stringers and ribs. These will provide more gluing area for the deck. Each is a section of 1x2 coated with epoxy paint and then the glued side sanded. They also stiffen the top edges of the ribs/stringers.

The cleats also let me adjust the height of the supporting structure under the deck slightly. I put a slope in the center section of the deck so the forward edge is about an inch and a half higher than the aft, for drainage.

Fortunately, when I used a string level to set this up I found that my measurements for the structure already installed were good, and I didn't need to use the cleats to correct any issues with height.

Next up I'll finish the cleats with some more glue where needed and touch up with epoxy paint, coat the limber holes with epoxy putty again, and then permanently assemble the chase tubes in place and seal them with Vulkem. Then I start on the deck panels.

Erik

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Winter refit - transom

Did just a bit of work last night, sanding. I really need a small sander that fits in tight spaces, but as far as I can tell there's nothing like that available except maybe the little 2 inch sanding pads that go on air grinders.

I'll figure out something.

Here are a couple pics of my recent work. First, here's the cleats I've put on the ribs, to provide me more gluing area when I attach the deck:

Basically they widen the top edge. The rings are cross sections of 4 inch PVC that I cut for clamps. They work quite well, and are super cheap

I'll touch up the ends of the cleats with epoxy and/or epoxy paint before I glue the deck on, as well as roughing up the paint on the top of the cleats with sandpaper for a good grip.

Last night I took the rings off and did some of the sanding, and although I've gotten the new limber holes all cut and sealed I'm still sanding them and the deck under them for fairness. It's hard to fair putty in those areas, hence the need for a small sander.

Here's a pic of the panels I put in to close off/reinforce the back half of the gap between the deck supports and the engine stringers in the rear of the boat:

You can see in the near side of the pic that I've sandwiched the panels, which are 3/4" ply laminated with glass, between the knee for the engine stringers and the deck supports. This leaves a gap beneath the forward half of the deck supports and the top of the engine stringer (visible on the far side).

I'll fill the gap with a removable panel containing the engine air vents. The hoses for the intakes will descend from the vents on the sides of the boat down below decks via a hole in the deck. I'll cover the hoses with a shroud of some type when I build out the boat interior.

The removable panel should give me good access to the bottom of the engine should I need it... I can just detach the hose and pull the panel.

I'm going to try to finish sanding tonight, touch up the under decks paint, and assemble the chase tubes permanently. I also have materials to template the first deck section, so I'll see if I get to that.

Erik