Winter refit - transom

redfury

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Jul 16, 2006
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Re: Winter refit - transom

heck ya! It's -27 in summery MN this morning!
 

erikgreen

Captain
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Jan 8, 2007
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3,105
Re: Winter refit - transom

Okay, it's time for an update on this thing.

Since last January, I've been trying like heck to get it all done. I also took time from last October to December to chill out and think. I've been working pretty solidly on this from Jan to May of 2011.

After all that thinking, I decided to critically review the work I'd done so far and consider my direction.

There were some good bits and some bad bits, and I decided out with the bad and on with the good.

First off I removed the molded gunwale parts I'd made. I spent a lot of time on them, and couldn't imagine not using them once I'd finished, but frankly they looked like crap, and were angled the wrong way.

Then I decided to fill the holes I'd made for the engine air intakes. They were too small, hard to get air hoses to and still hide them, and crooked to boot. I glued in sections of trimmed glass from the hull sides.. basically solid 1/4" fiberglass plates.

I also took careful re-measurements of the hull to ensure the sides were even, and moved the whole boat back about a foot so I would just barely have enough room to put the bow on. I then sanded the sides to prep for new work.

It was unbelievably annoying to get the sides even... my floor isn't level, and even with a laser level and careful measuring it was coming out wrong. Two weeks of hell. Finally I ended up leveling the boat carefully then measuring the sides and back height with a ruler and a special "hook" that went over the first chine, to ensure symmetry if not engineering tolerances.

PIC00001.jpg




So far, so good. Now I needed some gunwales to go all the way to the bow that would look good (IE not half-a**ed), drain water, be stiffening for the sides of the boat, and wouldn't take forever to build. I fell back on some construction techniques from bateau.com, using plywood on forms to make simple gunwales that I'll install an inner edge on later.

I started with about a dozen molds placed on the hull, checked for centerline and level, and with angles about 10 degrees above horizonal, slanted outwards. I made them from 2x6 boards I ripped to width on the table saw using a jig to ensure straight sides and another jig to match the center angle.

PIC00005.jpg


PIC00006.jpg



This gave me a reference for the gunwales, to ensure they all point up at the same angle and are symmetrical. I spent some time with lines and lasers to ensure that the molds formed good lines, were all centered, were all in the same plane, and had the same height.

All I had to do then was mark some plywood so it matched the curve of the hull on the molds, then measure off an even distance from that to mark the inside edge (about 7 inches inward) and cut the curved sections out.

I then placed the plywood on the molds and tacked it in place to the hull edge with epoxy/wood flour, then I used some MDF with tape on it as a mold against the outside of the hull to "extend" the line of the hull up to the gunwale. Since the gunwale was flat on the braces (not warped) the putty made the top edge of the hull perfectly even (filled the space between gunwale and hull edge), and the mold made sure it was flush with the line of the hull, leaving a sharp corner up top.

PIC00012.jpg


The gap there is the "step" in the gunwale. You can see the mold for the edge still attached on the forward section, and the results of using the mold on the aft section.

Here's a closer pic showing the filling effect and evening of the top edge.

PIC00013.jpg


Then I took a round-off bit on a router and gave myself some perfectly rounded edges to glass over later.

Lunchtime here, more of the story in a little bit.

Erik
 

erikgreen

Captain
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: Winter refit - transom

Okay, time for more.

Here's a pic of the freshly rounded off edge, it's actually going to sit like that for a while. I put in temp. supports so I could put some weight on it while I worked on the rest of the boat.

PIC00019.jpg

No idea why this pic is small.

Those tubes laying in there are my chase tubes, to be installed soon.

The plywood I used was 8 foot sections, so it didn't quite reach to the transom from the "step". I put another piece in to make up the difference. Combined with the "patch" to the sides I made to fill the gap in the new molded sides plus the transom work I did earlier, I'll be spending a few hours on the transom once the hull is flipped making sure it's nice and pretty. Can't be helped, since I ended up cutting out the curved transom part way back when.

By the way, all the gunwale sections were glassed on the underside after being fit, but before being installed on the boat. Two layers of 17 oz biax cloth. That'll save some aggravation later, I only need to tab them on. The top will get covered by tabs and an overall cloth layer when I glass on the inner edge of the gunwale.

PIC00021.jpg



Now I started putting in the chase tubes. One on the port side for the battery-engine cables (battery box is amidships in the center well), two on starboard to the engine bay for engine controls and steering, one starboard to the engine bilge area for the fuel line, one starboard forward for the bow electricals.

PIC00030.jpg


I've got the engine compartment crammed full of tools here.

The yellowish stuff covering the glass in the central well is fairing compound... I started fairing things way back, I was kinda optimistic about my timeline :) I'm leaving it for now, I'll fair it probably when I finish rigging the interior (after painting the hull) and when I install the engine and fuel tank.

I'm also painting the bilge areas that will be covered (for now) with solid deck. I'm using Sherwin-Williams HS precatalyzed epoxy.

Chase tubes in and sealed (vulkem gray around each tube, holes sealed with epoxy putty/glue), so the compartments are water tight except for the limber holes. I also filled in the lower areas of some compartments with a very thick microbubble/resin paste, to avoid having little cracks water would collect in. I tested things, and water flows all the way back to the main bilge (centerline, ahead of the engine compartment) without any little puddles staying behind.

Time for some decking. Center section and aft first.

PIC00032.jpg


Deck sections have 2-3 layers (depending on location) of 17 oz biaxial cloth on both sides before installation. Where needed I installed a section of 1x2 red oak coated with epoxy and glued in place as a cleat, to increase surface area for gluing.

No screws, just glue to the cleats and top edges of the stringers/ribs. No holes in the glass to let water in that way.

Each bucket has 5 gallons of water in it... I had one paint bucket with lead shot, but I made do with the water buckets.

I went to great effort to make sure the deck supports were level (with a slight downhill slope aft) before gluing. The deck should be very close to perfectly level with the hull.

I decided at this point (or possibly somewhere before, it's been a while) that I didn't like the position of my forward bulkhead. It had reinforced the hull through this process, but it was crooked and in just a little bit of a bad spot. I cut it down to a reinforcing rib so I could run the deck through it.

I also cut out the old "bottom" of the anchor well I installed and put in a larger triangular piece.

This pic shows the structure of the first "step" in the deck. The lower deck extends about 6 inches under the upper deck, and vice versa. Two vertical pieces form a box joint between upper and lower deck. Originally this "step" was needed because the fuel tank was moved forward about 5 feet, and had to stick up a little. The box joint makes the deck sections one strong part, and also forms a little bilge. I'm thinking I'll cut a grille or drain into the roof of the sealed box, and put a scupper in the hull at the end. Then water from the upper part of the step (the mid deck) will drain into the grille and overboard rather than running down to the aft deck.

PIC00001-1.jpg



This pic also shows some of the red oak cleats (pre epoxy coating), the forward chase tube, the bulkhead between battery box area and fuel tank, and the "step" face.

The mid-deck goes on now, sorry this pic is too tight focused. You can see the fuel tank supports here along with the "rails" that fit in their notches. The rails contact some plexiglass rectangles on the bottom of the fuel tank. It's a complicated way to support the tank, but it's strong, rot free, and doesn't collect water and promote corrosion. You can see white fairing putty coating the inside of the fuel tank compartment.

PIC00003.jpg


The MDF triangles are templates or parts of them.


Moving on....
 

erikgreen

Captain
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: Winter refit - transom

So, the bow was still missing at this point. I'd moved the boat back to enable a build out, to minimize what I had to do in the weather once this boat was outside.

I built an MDF mold, the same as I did for the sides, extending the existing bow upwards.

Just to confuse you guys some more, this pic was taken before I had cut out the old triangular anchor locker bottom.

PIC00007-2.jpg


I used a bit of spray foam to fill a gap where the two panels met. I thought briefly about giving the bow a bit of a flare, but sanity won out and I kept things simple.

I masked off the mold surface to avoid getting wax on the hull I wanted to join to, then waxed the mold surface and sprayed PVA. When that dried, I re-masked to have only the mold and attaching surfaces clear, to avoid a lot of clean up elsewhere.

PIC00012-1.jpg



Then it was time for some glass. I used a standard five gallon bucket of poly resin. First layer was medium heavy mat, with pieces of mat torn off and run up to and over the edges of the existing glass to ensure a good bond. Then I used 1708 (knytex) which has a built in mat. Four layers per side, overlapping at the bow, with edges overlapping where they met. You can just barely see the red sharpie I used on the pre-cut glass to label the panels as to location and layer.

PIC00014-1.jpg


So, I had a rough bow that needed trimming, and it was pretty tough, especially since I'd later glass over the joints with epoxy and more biax.... but it wasn't stiff and tough enough for me, so....

I got a good deal on some balsa (baltek) core material. Nice stuff, it's little end grain balsa squares on a scrim mat so it conforms to hull curves. I would have liked to have gone with airex foam instead, but this boat isn't wood free anyway, so I couldn't see much point in paying the extra.

newwork
PIC00021-1.jpg


The inside skin is five overlapping layers of biax 17 oz fabric plus some 1708 tabbing at the joint between the old and new hull. Total thickness of the new bow is about 3/4" at the pointy end and 5/8" back at the join with the old hull, which is slightly thicker than the old hull's solid glass was.

PIC00023.jpg


I also took care to make sure the new bow's lines more or less matched the old bow's centerline, so I had a nice "flow" from the cutwater up to the new foredeck level. I did ok, I'll have to do some work on it once it's flipped over to make sure it's seamless.
 

erikgreen

Captain
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: Winter refit - transom

One more pic of the bow. Kinda a goofy angle, with me under the new bow looking up.

It's shiny there because of the tape I used to join the panels on top of the spray foam.

I trimmed the excess glass just after I took this pic.

PIC00016.jpg



Okay, back to finishing the deck now that I have a bow.


I made a plywood box out of 1/2" ply glassed on two sides with three layers of 12 oz biax cloth (I bought a roll of the stuff a while back).

Then I glassed it into place ahead of the rib I had made from the cut down bulkhead. The top edge is at the height of the foredeck, the sides are glassed to the bulkhead behind the box, and the back edge will form a "step" from the mid deck to the foredeck. The box itself runs from the hull up to foredeck height and should have its top way above waterline. Initially it'll be a storage compartment, but eventually it'll be a mini moon pool where I can mount a trolling motor through the hull.

PIC00026.jpg



The new anchor locker bottom is formed by the foredeck piece, which again is 1/2" ply glassed on both sides with three layers of 12 oz cloth. Again, there are cleats on the hull and on the edges of the box providing gluing surfaces.

PIC00029.jpg



For now the spaces under the foredeck on either side will be sealed. There are limber holes there though, and I've leveled off the bottom of each compartment with filler. Eventually they'll be storage.

I forgot to mention... before I put the aft deck section on I drilled holes in the stringers for through bolts and mounting for 1 inch aluminum angle.

PIC00028.jpg


The angle will support the deck above and also provide an anchor point for attaching items on the deck like my console and potentially a changing room/head box. The angle lets me move the console forward and aft as needed using "filler" deck sections ahead of it. If there's space in the well aft of the battery box and ahead of the console I can even mount something there that extends down to the hull bottom, like a live well or whatever.

Before I finished putting the "steps" together and putting the top of the forward deck on (fore-fore deck?) I spent some time aft. This pic sums up a lot of work.

PIC00004.jpg


The extra large knees in the engine compartment support the transom, which is going to need the support since I'm going to cut a through-transom door on the port side (assuming all works out with my planned waterline calculations). The port side of the hull has also been reinforced to take the strain. The short shelf in the center above the engine space is where the hinges (or possibly latches) for the dog house will attach. I wanted it kept short because I don't want it in the way when I put the engine in via cherry picker.

The starboard side (left in the photo) has a sort of table section on top of the tranom. This is for the davit/outrigger for my sonar unit. It's essentially the thickness of a transom section that's attached with knees to the transom itself plus the motor bay knees, so it's rather strong. It also forms the top of the computer compartment... the onboard computer will hang on the transom to give it a smooth ride.

There will be a half inch aluminum plate bolted to the top of the table section which will have mounting points for the actual davit.

I'll fair all the pieces of the transom together at the back edge in a similar manner to how I did the gunwales. The gunwales at the transom form a sort of angle at either corner which should be more visually interesting than a flat transom top.

I designed it this way because I wanted a low transom I could walk through with few obstructions for the davit, and maximum space given to the deck.

The engine I wanted in its own nearly sealed compartment to limit flooding if the sterndrive leaked, and also to keep noise down. It'll have its own bilge pump and alarms.

I'm proud of the eventual solution I came up with for engine ventilation. I had originally installed a pair of knees, one at either side of the hull near the transom, as support for the sides. I decided to sister on a full height (to the gunwale) rib piece above deck to those, and then another full height rib piece about a foot ahead of that, forming a rectangular box. I then cut a hole in the deck at the base the same size, which leads into two compartments that link up with the engine compartment below decks, again with the same amount of clear space. You can see one of them on the right side of the above pic.

I'll put a flat removable front on each one and cut some kind of hole into the top edge from the outside of the hull, and these will be my engine air intakes. They're about 112 square inches each, which is about 30% larger than was recommended for my engine size.

No hoses to route or limitations on the shape of the intake vent. I can be creative, or just cut a big hole into their space from outside the hull. Inside the hull they look like big supports for the gunwales (which is another function of theirs).

Because of the way the compartments route to the engine, any water coming in will mostly divert to the main bilge via limber holes.

I'll build a vent box at the top of the engine compartment to suck air from bilge level out to clear fumes, and I'll use 3 inch hoses for that running down the transom inside to the bilge level.

I'll also need to vent the battery area (even though it's technically joined to the engine space) and the fuel tank bilge. Not sure exactly what form that will take yet.

So, with the triangular forward gunwale/deck installed but not yet glassed, I went ahead and did most of the glassing on the inside... deck to hull, step to deck, hull joint. I have some more to do on the engine air intakes and the transom where that table is. After that, I just need to glass the hull joint on the outside. Edit: Forgot to say I need to attach the remaining forward section of the gunwales too, and build the joint where they meet the foredeck. Just one more thing...

PIC00007-1.jpg


I could do some more on the edges of the hatches and steps, etc. but I'll probably leave that until the hull is painted and I'm fitting out the interior. In the meantime while the hull is outside being painted I'll also be working on constructing the console and seats, hatch covers for the fuel tank, moon pool, and the deck sections for the battery/console area, and the front covers for the engine air intakes. Once the engine is in I'll build a new doghouse.

Phew. Lots to go yet, but I'm really excited to get this hull outside after a year and a half.

Erik
 

erikgreen

Captain
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: Winter refit - transom

Forgot to mention... while I'm getting the hull painted I also need to put new manifolds and intake on the motor, and get the transom and this item repainted.

Not to mention finding a set of props for it that won't break the bank...


%20Oh,%20and%20while%20I%27m%20working%20on%20the%20hull,%20I%20need%20to%20repaint%20this%20and%20prep%20the%20transom%20hardware%20and%20engine%20for%20install...%20bellows,%20seals,%20etc.
PIC00036-1.jpg
 

Willyclay

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Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
3,244
Re: Winter refit - transom

All that hard work is paying off because it looks like a boat again! Anxiously awaiting your next update. Good luck!
 

erikgreen

Captain
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: Winter refit - transom

No pics today.. I just went and ordered more epoxy, plus I picked up a local gallon (at twice the price) to work with until the new order arrives. I'm going to put the forward gunwale section on tonight or tomorrow, then Sat. or Sun I'll move the hull outside to flip it over for repairs/painting. Exciting to finally get my garage back.

After I paint it and flip it back I'll be installing the engine and transom, routing hoses and wires, installing blowers and the console and the fuel tank, and getting it ready for a float test to check the waterline so I can cut the transom door out. After that I'll take it for a spin, but I expect to be working on things like hatches, storage, the computer, etc. all summer.

Erik
 

erikgreen

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Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: Winter refit - transom

Phew.. spent 3 hours last night getting it towed outside... it barely fit out the door, and I managed to crack some glue (in an area I hadn't glassed yet) in the process.

But, it's outside now... going to level it on stands tonight and wash it down for the first time in a year.

More epoxy arriving in a couple days, then I'm off to the races on a bit of repair, glassing the gunwales and tabbing the foredeck, then I start flipping it over.

Wish it was cooler, I just about had heat stroke last night...
 

Willyclay

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Sep 8, 2006
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3,244
Re: Winter refit - transom

... then I start flipping it over.

Congratulations on the big milestone last night! I know you are feeling better about your project. Very interested in your method for flipping that 21 footer because I have an 18.5 that is challenging my old geezer brain. Take pictures, please. Good luck!
 

erikgreen

Captain
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Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: Winter refit - transom

She's actually a 23 footer now thanks to the hull mods :) I'll take pictures when I do it, probably I'll be using my crane on one end and a custom built stand with a rotating axle on the other end. Wish I had more space :)

Erik
 

Willyclay

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Sep 8, 2006
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3,244
Re: Winter refit - transom

...probably I'll be using my crane on one end...Erik

I should have guessed you had a crane. You young guys have all the great toys. Can't help you with the space issue because I had a seven-car garage until my spousal unit decided half of it needed to become an apartment for her mother, the grandkids, the cats, etc. Good luck!
 

erikgreen

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Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: Winter refit - transom

Heh. I don't know if I count as young any more.

My crane is home built... I basically started by building an oversize cherry picker with a harbor freight air operated cylinder, then this year I put it on an a-frame with an axle from an old boat trailer at the large end. It rolls easily by hand now, although I have to counterweight it or finish welding on the extendable leg braces to lift anything heavier than it is.

I picked up a cast iron tool base off a trailer a few days ago and with a counterweight on the crane it rolled around easily (if slowly) with just me pushing it. Total weight was about 1 ton.

Mostly I built the thing to make engine pulls easier and to help get boats onto trailers.

Storage space is getting to be a problem for me... good thing I'm putting up a privacy fence soon, otherwise the neighbors would be ready to lynch me.

Erik
 
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