What do you pull your boat with?

[Aquaman-PSD]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

Might be different in different areas but Ford didn't put the UREA crap on there till the 6.7 liter. The 6.4 got terrible milage without that all that garbage on there. I can't imagine how bad it would be with it!

 

[RamAirZ]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

I would agree, a 12 valve Cummins is hands down the best light truck diesel engine. I've had a local shop do $5000 in mods to a 6.0 F250 work truck, studded heads, EGR delete, coolant filters etc. etc. and even with no tuner at all the dang heads lifted. That was it for the 6.0 for me. My friends with 6.4's tell me it gets 11mpg which defeats a big portion of my motivation to own a diesel. And I don't know much about the 6.7...but after the 6.0 and 6.4, I'm now a skeptic.

That's weird that you were lifting heads on a stock tune, especially with studs. Did the truck ever overheat or anything before you had this work done? I've got a steady stream of 6.0's that come through the shop, and very rarely do I see one do what yours did and not have another issue related to a previous failure. The 6.4 gets horrible mileage from the factory, they shoot unburnt fuel into the exhaust system and ignite it to burn up the carbon, so basically when the regen event takes place your just wasting fuel. With a tuner and turbo-back exhaust with DPF/CAT delete they will get around 18-19.

Cummin=Great motor
Dodge=weak tranny and poor engineering

I will say they have eliminated most of these problems now. With new diesels you can't go wrong with a cummins or a stroker. The 6.0 was designed to target commercial customers and it did very well. have you ever noticed how many diesel company trucks are 6.0's and how many are dodge/chevy...

Part of the reason we work on so many, there are more of them out there. The newer Dodge trannies aren't so bad, and honestly it was just the auto's, their manuals are awesome.

Around here, diesel trucks don't have emission inspections, I know several guys that have removed the EPA garbage from their 6.4 trucks and the mileage and power increase is pretty impressive.

We have a customers truck that we have done some extensive work too, 600hp and 800ft/lbs fairly easily, and he gets 18-19 with it. Before hand it was stock getting 11-13, blah!

Might be different in different areas but Ford didn't put the UREA crap on there till the 6.7 liter. The 6.4 got terrible milage without that all that garbage on there. I can't imagine how bad it would be with it!

Nope, the 6.4 just shoots excess fuel into the exhaust stream and it ignites, burning excess carbon in the DPF and Cat, it's the regen cycle. It's the reason they get **** porr mileage.

 

[NYBo]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

Around here, diesel trucks don't have emission inspections, I know several guys that have removed the EPA garbage from their 6.4 trucks and the mileage and power increase is pretty impressive.

You also know several guys who have violated federal law...

 

[RamAirZ]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

I know a few law breakers, like you can't sing while wearing a bathing suit in florida, or this one, It it illegal to park a pick-up truck in your driveway or in front of your house on the street. This law is limited to only those who do not own the house- Cape Coral, FL

 

[QC]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

What does that have to do with anything? ^^^^^^ BTW, SCR (Urea) helps improve fuel economy IF you leave emissions alone. Nobody "likes" it, but why not remove all catalysts, coal power plant emission controls, smoke limiters etc.? Why not dump untreated waste in your favorite fishing ground? Why treat the water to your house? I am the first one to complain about the EPA, CARB whatever, but I don't really think we should advocate choosing what laws to follow despite the singing in the bathing suit stuff . . .

 

[RamAirZ]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

What does that have to do with anything? ^^^^^^ BTW, SCR (Urea) helps improve fuel economy IF you leave emissions alone. Nobody "likes" it, but why not remove all catalysts, coal power plant emission controls, smoke limiters etc.? Why not dump untreated waste in your favorite fishing ground? Why treat the water to your house? I am the first one to complain about the EPA, CARB whatever, but I don't really think we should advocate choosing what laws to follow despite the singing in the bathing suit stuff . . .

The 6.4 doesn't use UREA, it fires the injectors on an exhaust stroke to shoot unburnt fuel into the exhaust, which then ignites shooting a fireball into the DPF and CAT. I've got no issues with most emissions stuff., especially newer cars, but when I used to run a SMOG shop in California and did some testing on some "older" vehicles, you could get a vehicle without a SINGLE piece of emissions equipment to pass all stages of testing just by being in good running order, even had an EFI 460 Ford truck with no cats, no A.I.R., no EGR, aftermarket exhaust, headers, MSD etc and it passed all tests with flying colors. If you live in a state that doesn't test, especially if you have a 6.4 truck, ditch the DPF. I would put my paycheck that it would still pass emissions testing, and even though "illegal", it isn't committing the crime that the law is out to stop. I would also put my paycheck that a truck with a clogged DPF and faulty EGR system will actually run worse and put out worse emissions than a truck without any of it. My point was that looking down on those people who ditched it as lawbreakers is dumb IMO.

 

[QC]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

I would put my paycheck that it would still pass emissions testing, and even though "illegal", it isn't committing the crime that the law is out to stop. I would also put my paycheck that a truck with a clogged DPF and faulty EGR system will actually run worse and put out worse emissions

You'd lose your paycheck on both. In use testing is a joke in comparison to what the new vehicle and engine testing is. Pretty much meaningless. There is no way that ANY stoichiometric and a three way cat application (460 Ford) in your example could pass NOx emissions if the cat was removed. No way an EGR engine could pass NOx without EGR operable and especially no way an SCR engine could pass NOx without the equipment in working order. Maybe hydrocarbons and CO, but not NOx. The issue is also anti-Tampering, and I take $10,000 per day fairly seriously

Let's not hijack this thread any worse than we have, the problem is that we are just not interested in promoting illegal activity here. Just not really our gig

 

[RamAirZ]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

Understandable, but one last thing, I think I still have the SMOG sheet from that 460 ford and it did pass NOx It was a 1988 first year EFI version, so the emissions equipment and standards aren't the same as they are on the newer trucks, but still, passed all tests including NOx.

 

[QC]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

Maybe for a Heavy-Duty in that year, but even then pretty hard to believe. Stoich (all gasoline cars pretty much) without a cat are VERY high NOx. EFI, MPI, Carb'd, doesn't matter, all are high. Add the cat and they cut it by 95% plus.

 

[RamAirZ]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

I'll see if I can find the sheet and PM it to ya. I won't lie, I was amazed myself but had it on 2 different machines and ran through your standard California emissions testing for registration and it passed, not visually of course but all the test readings did.

 

[270win]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

Maybe for a Heavy-Duty in that year, but even then pretty hard to believe. Stoich (all gasoline cars pretty much) without a cat are VERY high NOx. EFI, MPI, Carb'd, doesn't matter, all are high. Add the cat and they cut it by 95% plus.

I guess when I drive my 99 7.3 with no cats or muffs to the lake tomorrow to dump my 50 gallon barrel of waste oil into the lake I'll think of you.

I'm just kidding...but you might lighten up just a touch. Unless you work for the EPA? Again, just messin' with ya!

Although the previous owner of my current truck did remove the cats and muffs and put a straight 4" turbo back on it. Gets 18 around town. Wonder what it would do with cats and muffs? And as a further hijack, I'm looking into propane injection for even better fuel economy. I hear the mileage increase is quite appreciable.

 

[QC]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

I am not advocating increased emission compliance or especially not increased standards.

I don't think a '99 7.3 had cats, did it? Definitely not for NOx, maybe an OxyCat for PM and HCs?

My only point before was that removing emission equipment is just like polluting in any other way. You'd probably be surprised if you knew my personal position on some of this stuff though. Probably not as I sounded.

BTW, adding propane injection may increase total efficiency slightly, very slightly, but don't forget to count the added BTUs to your calcs. I happen to do what you are talking about for a living, but with NatGas

 

[RamAirZ]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

Yes a '99 7.3 had a cat, and I get your point that polluting is polluting but it's also like say comparing stealing an apple because your hungry compared to stealing millions from people in a Ponzi scheme. It's still stealing, but ones is obviously worse than the other. As for the Propane, if your doing it just for increased MPG, I think the cost of the propane itself as well as the kit, compared to the increase in MPG and $$ saved it won't net you a savings for a long time. Now for power, you'd be pleasantly surprised If ya don't mind me asking QC, what do you do for a living? Working with MatGas sounds like fun

 

[QC]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

Heavy-Duty Dual-Fuel. 300 - 500 horsepower natural gas engines, diesel pilot ignition, primarily truck. Also dabble in very large SCR systems, some 4000 bhp stuff. But my entire career has been diesel truck engines, first 24 years with Cat, the last 10 doing NatGas on-highway.

 

[sam60]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

As for the Propane, if your doing it just for increased MPG, I think the cost of the propane itself as well as the kit, compared to the increase in MPG and $$ saved it won't net you a savings for a long time.

What if you have a fleet of 10,000 trucks and you buy conversions at a volume discount, have them installed by mechanics specializing in that product and have secured contracts for nat gas or propane purchase prices? The ROI may happen quicker than we know.

I know this is "what do you tow your boat with". Just another view on the subject.

5.9 Cummins 325/610 for me.

EDIT: Fleet of One

 

[QC]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

A Hijack for sure, but the trick to these ideas is you need to burn a LOT of fuel to make an economic case. I look for customers burning 10,000 gallons of diesel a year to start. Light duty rarely makes economic sense.

 

[RamAirZ]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

Heavy-Duty Dual-Fuel. 300 - 500 horsepower natural gas engines, diesel pilot ignition, primarily truck. Also dabble in very large SCR systems, some 4000 bhp stuff. But my entire career has been diesel truck engines, first 24 years with Cat, the last 10 doing NatGas on-highway.

Awesome! Sounds like some fun stuff I've got a CAT 3126 right now that's being a little booger!

What if you have a fleet of 10,000 trucks and you buy conversions at a volume discount, have them installed by mechanics specializing in that product and have secured contracts for nat gas or propane purchase prices? The ROI may happen quicker than we know.

I know this is "what do you tow your boat with". Just another view on the subject.

5.9 Cummins 325/610 for me.

EDIT: Fleet of One

nice numbers! What year 5.9? And yes, in that kind of situation or even an individual who can setup a kit on their own and get cheap or free propane, the ROI comes quick! I'm using your average consumer as the example

 

[RamAirZ]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

A Hijack for sure, but the trick to these ideas is you need to burn a LOT of fuel to make an economic case. I look for customers burning 10,000 gallons of diesel a year to start. Light duty rarely makes economic sense.

^ what he said

 

[sam60]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

What year 5.9? I'm using your average consumer as the example

2005 3500 SRW LB. Yep, I agree with you on the payback for people like me and I won't even buy a power adder.

I know QC from lot's of posts and he is a very congenial, helpful and knowledgeable man.

From reading what you have posted here in this thread, I must say that I am impressed with your experience and knowledge also!

Lots of great people here and helpful information. I am just a pup in the whole scheme but have learned alot since joining and appreciate all.

 

[RamAirZ]

Re: What do you pull your boat with?

I appreciate that and I can tell QC is a very knowledgable man as well. You've got the nice one, 5.9 24v common rail, it'd be perfect if it was a CC SWB 6spd truck (at least for me lol)