This is why I dont like the ACLU

[kenimpzoom]

Can someone please explain to me why it is so hideously wrong to teach both creationism and evolution. Then let the kids decide for themselves.<br /><br />How can this possibly be wrong?<br /><br />Ken<br /><br />***********************************************<br />HARRISBURG, PA. - Eight families have filed a lawsuit against a school district that is requiring students to learn about alternatives to the theory of evolution, claiming the curriculum violates the separation of church and state.<br /><br />The ACLU and Americans United for Separation of Church and State said the lawsuit is the first to challenge whether public schools should teach "intelligent design," which holds that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by some higher power. The two organizations are representing the parents in the federal lawsuit.<br /><br />The Dover Area School District voted 6-3 on Oct. 18 to include intelligent design in the ninth-grade science curriculum, in what is believed to be the first such requirement in the country.<br /><br />The American Civil Liberties Union contends intelligent design is a more secular form of creationism — a biblical-based view that credits the origin of species to God — and may violate the constitutional separation of church and state.<br /><br />One of the parents bringing suit, Tammy Kitzmiller, expressed concern that the school board would mandate the teaching of "something that isn't accepted as science." Kitzmiller has two children who attend Dover High School, where teachers of ninth-grade biology are expected to discuss evolution sometime next month.<br /><br />Two of the three dissenting board members have resigned in protest. Angie Yingling, a board member who originally supported the policy, said she later reconsidered her vote.<br /><br />"Anyone with half a brain should have known we were going to be sued," she said. "You can't do this."<br /><br />School officials had no immediate comment on the lawsuit.<br /><br />At least one other district has recently become embroiled in federal litigation over teaching evolution.<br /><br />A federal judge in Georgia is considering the constitutionality of a suburban Atlanta district's decision to include a warning sticker about evolution in biology textbooks.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

Blow up the UN and the ACLU,...(and the lawyers)

 

[bayman]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

Doesn't make much sense does it.<br /><br />Even Einstein and many other scientists and mathematicians who understand statistics have agreed that there is way too much organization for evolution to make any sense. Sure, everyone is agreed that some evolution does take place. But humans coming from bacteria...not a chance.<br /><br />With trillions and trillions of stars that can be seen, doesn't it make sense that life originated somewhere else and was put here?<br /><br />Why do we have to teach theories that obviously make no sense and that have no probability of even happening, when there are much better theories that make much more sense and have a much higher probability of even happening.

 

[ob]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

Probabilities are endless.That is unless the ACLU can determine where the universe ends.Until then ,I'll keep the faith.

 

[12Footer]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

It's just too bad we cannot place a couple referendums on the next balot. If it were as simple as "the will of the people", BOTH scurvy institutions would be history.

 

[jtexas]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

"Then let the kids decide for themselves. How can this possibly be wrong?"

ken, I'm guessing you already know the short answer is "because they are kids." Too young in the legal sense. <br /><br />But what is this "intelligent design" and how do I know whether it is "religion"? And what is "accepted as science?" If "Einstein and many other scientists" accepted the concept, and I believe that's a true enough statement, then shouldn't it be presented? I don't really want public school teachers teaching religion, but I think the local school board can probably figure out where to draw that line in their community.<br /><br />If the ACLU wins, will that apply only to this curriculum? Will the Dover school board appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court? Will the Supreme Court hear the case? <br /><br />In any case, congrats to Dover on having the integrity to put it in play rather than fold in fear of lawsuits.<br /><br />Personally I don't think science could ever shake my religion. Heck all I have to do is look at this computer screen - was the mind that thought this up some randomly evolved collection of molecules? You might as well ask me to believe that a fully functional Boeing 747 can be assembled by a hurricane sweeping through a junkyard!

 

[bayman]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

And because the Planet X theory (Creationism or life being created elsewhere and put on Earth) also is believed by thousands of religions we can't teach the Planet X theory in schools.<br /><br />It's really a silly, silly argument by the ACLU and others. What if someone were to create a religion based on evolution. Then we couldn't teach evolution in schools because that would be promoting religion right!

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

Actually, creationism is also a theory based on ancient writings.<br /><br />I am just struggling as to why this is seperation of church and state. They dont require the kids to believe in creationism, thy just learn about it, along with all the other theories.<br /><br />What exactly are these people afraid of, that their kids will suddenly find religion.<br /><br />Ken

 

[snapperbait]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

What exactly are these people afraid of, that their kids will suddenly find religion.<br />

Probably.. And to tell ya the truth, Ken, I can understand what "these people" are afraid of..<br /><br /> Ya know, religion's not always a good thing, especially without parental guidance.. Even with parental guidance, in certain circumstances, certain aspects of various religions could be questionable when it comes to a childs welfare... So, in the hands of the wrong teacher, kid might end up more warped than the kids that the schools are producing now...<br /><br />IMHO, evolution should be taught in the context of what can be PROVEN (within a species and such).. The rest is null and void because there are absolutely NO FACTS to prove creationism (because "it is written" won't due), evolution (as pertains to theory of), intelligent design, or any other un-proven theory or "ism"...<br />

 

[JB]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

Good grief. Here we go again.

 

[jtexas]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

"Proven" snapperbait? if a scientific theory had to be proven before it could be taught, that wouldn't leave much.<br /><br />I tried to avoid studying science as much as I could during my school days, but I seem to remember something about "scientific method," that involved things like theories & experiments & such.<br /><br />Everybody knows that the square of the hypotenuse of a right triangle equals the sum of the squares of its legs, right? That's the Pythagorean Theory. But it's not called the Pythagorean Fact. Not sure why exactly, I guess because it can't be proven absolutely; do we toss it out?<br /><br />Did you realize that during the time of Christ, the Earth was actually flat and stationary, with the stars and planets moving around it? Well, it was scientific fact at the time. Any educated man could have told you that.<br /><br />Evolution seems like a pretty intelligent design to me, anyway.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

I'll leave religion out of this statement:<br /><br />It just doenst make any sense to not teach something that so many people believe is true. True or not, is not important, education is. If I was the teacher I would say something like this:<br /><br />"The scientific community believes evolution is the way many was created. There are other thories out there that you should ask your parents about, as I am not allowed to discuss them"<br /><br />********************************************<br />Anyway, it is all moot cause I teach my kids whatever I want to. Perhaps the schools should put out a note to parents stating they are teaching evolution in school that day, and suggest the parents talk to the kids about what the family believes is correct.<br /><br />OK, does that make everyone happy?<br /><br />Ken

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

Poor JB, you need a vaction from all of us idiots banging our head against the wall.<br /><br /> <br /><br />Ken

 

[NYMINUTE]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

Slow down I want to get on....Let us invite the entire ACLU to a weekend trip to Europe. The planes carrying them will be fixed to run out of fuel midway, and the only chutes available will be for the crew, who will be picked up prior to the unexpected termination of the flight. Shark Food...

 

[JB]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

JTexas.<br /><br />The relationship among the sides of a right triangle, the Pythagorean THEOREM, is proven daily by a gazillion students.<br /><br />That is not theory. A theorem is a provable statement, a theory is one for which there is evidence, but no proof. . .a hypothesis.<br /><br />A couple of theories on the outer edge. . .<br /><br />"Time and space are different perceptions of the same, just as energy and mass are different forms of the same."<br /><br />"Space had no beginning and will have no end. It is a mobius of infinite paths."<br /><br />"Therefore infinity and eternity are the same."<br /><br />So, based on those theories, something that has a 1 in a trillion chance of happening becomes a certainty many times over.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

creationism is based on NO facts or ANY science<br />whatsoever. we have absolute proof that the world<br />is billions of years old, not 6,000 as they would<br />have us believe.<br /><br />how's this? anybody remember a book called "chariots<br />of the gods"? it was a bestseller when I was young.<br />it trys to prove that civilization got it's start<br />because aliens visited our planet and gave us<br />knowledge... maybe we should teach this too and<br />just let the kids decide for themselves?<br /><br />and for the record, this has been discussed in<br />great depth here in the past. (quite long)<br /> http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=004372#000005

 

[woodrat]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

and if the teachers were allowed to teach creationism, then there would eventually be a great hue and cry somewhere that they weren't teaching the right version of creationism, and then the angry fundamentalist christians would be the ones filing lawsuits and picketing schools. (you know when they talk about getting rid of the lawyers, they plan on keeping their own lawyers around...)

 

[DJ]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

Can we teach the calendar in school? It's the year 2004, right? Or is it?<br /><br />What does 2004 stand for? It means 2004 years After Death. Who's death?<br /><br />The 6000 years is based on a different timetable than we mere mortals can come up with. As the Bible says: "with the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day". 2 Peter 3:8

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

So why dont we just skip the whole subject in school?<br /><br />Guys, there are many scientific theories in for many subjects. They dont teach them all, they only teach the most popular ones. I only ask that they teach creationism. To not teach creationism is ignoring one of the more popular theories out there.<br /><br />You couldnt get more vauge than this; "universe is so complex that it must have been created by some higher power". Every version of creationism would agree with that theory. Even people who believe aliens created the earth would agree with that.<br /><br />What scientist said creationism is "something that isn't accepted as science." Can they prove it? To ignore that possibility is pure stupidity.<br /><br />Ken

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: This is why I dont like the ACLU

creation science is NOT science, it's religion<br />pure and simple!<br /><br />that said, I do believe in creation and have<br />actually studied darwinism and seriously looked<br />at creation science's claims.<br /><br />DJ, with respect, the earth is only 6,000yrs<br />old? u don't really believe that crud do u?<br /><br />anyone here who actually studied/knows Darwin's<br />studies? know anything about geology and how we<br />can accurately date the earth and the cosmos?<br /><br />if not, u r just repeating something yur preacher<br />told you... blindly.