The stRingers are out!

OhioLowell

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
189
Re: The stRingers are out!

Thanks for the help a guys!

I used to frequent the WoodenBoat forum alot. Over there you mention using poly and not epoxy you may be keel hauled! :$

That being said I'll use my epoxy to bond the new transom and build the fillets for it and also on the FG over the fillets but I'll probably stick to poly on just about everything else.


Lowell
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: The stRingers are out!

It's very important to use epoxy when when making wooden boats, poly works like *%$&# for that type of application. As you have noticed in your boat, the entire polyester structure is still there and doing fine, the wood is gone and there's a bunch of holes drilled in it, but it's still a boat. If polyester didn't do a good job, it would have failed long ago.
 

OhioLowell

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
189
Re: The stRingers are out!

Yeah I suppose that if it didn't work they would have stopped using it years ago! lol

I'm still trying to get my head around the whole "fiberglass is strong" thing. I know if I build something out of wood and put 2 or 3 screws in it, that it will hold.

The new transom gets laminated and glassed tommorrow. Wish me luck!

I'll have more pics!

Lowell
 

Nova II 260

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
681
Re: The stRingers are out!

Lowell, that transom looks good! Been gone all week. You're still on the right path. You shoulda stopped by, we could've killed a couple of beers.
 

OhioLowell

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
189
Re: The stRingers are out!

Well I got the two pieces of 3/4 laminated together today! My first time ever messing with poly resin and fiberglass! Turned out ok. The 2 pieces did slide just a scoach on me while I was screwing them together. Nothing lost though as I was going to run the router around them once they are cured out.

I was really worried about the poly kicking too quickly but the cooler temps I think really helped. Man that stuff is sticky!

Tommorrow I'll glass one of the other sides and then Tuesday night I'll get the other one. If everything goes as planned the new transom will go into the boat next weekend along with the stringers. Wish me luck on that!

I have some pics to post but I'm too lazy to plug in the camera right now. I'll get them posted tommorrow.

Nova,
Once I get this hog put back together we'll have to get together and see if we can scare every Muskie in Ceaser's Creek away!

Thanks again!
Lowell
 

OhioLowell

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
189
Re: The stRingers are out!

As I just asked in another thread, is it ok to use just 2 layers of glass cloth on the front and back of the new transom or should I use one layer of mat and one layer of cloth on each face?

Thanks,
Lowell
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: The stRingers are out!

You should always use mat as the first layer any time you are using polyester.
 

OhioLowell

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
189
Re: The stRingers are out!

Thanks for the info all!
Knowing that about the differences between epoxy and poly since I'm going to use epoxy to install the transom in the boat, it will be ok to use just cloth on those joints.?

Here are the pictures.

This is a shot of the mat layer that is in between the 2 sheets of 3/4" ply that make up the transom. I allowed the mat to uver hang a fair amount all the way around to allow for me being a dufus!:love:
IMG_0295.jpg


This is a shot of the 2 pieces of ply in the "curing" stage. The clamps allowed me to put a little stank on a few spots that didn't want to lie down for whatever reason. The rest was fastened with 1&5/8" drywall screws that will be removed before that side of the transom is glassed. I only fastened the plywood through one side with the screws, that way I was able to glass one side with the screws still in. I'll remove them before I glass the other side.
IMG_0296.jpg


THis is a shot of one side of the transom in fresh fiberglass. THe outsides of the transom will both be done this way: resin on the ply: one layer of mat (THANKS ONDARVR!) followed by one layer of 6oz cloth. I'm buying typical Wal-Mart fiberglass made by Bondo so neither of the sheets are big enough to cover the whole transom in on solid piece. Where I had to use 2 peices I placed the seam of the mat at one end of the transom and the seam of the cloth at the other end so as not to make a weak spot where the joints overlapped. It amazes me how the glass goes from opaque to transparent once it's wet out. Since this picture I've trimmed up the long edges of the glass some. I trimmed the glass once the resin developed a lite film on it. I still had to be very careful! I started with a used balde in the utility knife and pulled the top layer of glass. Changed blades to a new blade and trimmed very carefully to within about 1/2" of the ply. It's not the best job in the world but I'm sure it'll work just fine for this old fishing boat.
IMG_0299.jpg


Lastly this is a shot of the new center stringers' business ends! They have been trimmed to 3.5" wide and are 7/8" cedar. I have also cut an angle at their ends to allow me to scarf them together to get the lenght that is needed.
IMG_0300.jpg


Well there you have it gang, what do you think so far?

Thanks
Lowell
 

Nova II 260

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
681
Re: The stRingers are out!

Lowell, I almost got arrested at Ceaser's Creek for sticking my face in the water and scaring the fish.
Transom taking shape. You could have covered the resin job with a garbage bag and squeejed the bubbles out. Would have given you a smooth finish.
Stringers: don't forget to cut a couple of limber holes in the bottom of the stringers. Or epoxy in some PVC stubs
limber.jpg
.
 

OhioLowell

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
189
Re: The stRingers are out!

Yes, Nova the stringers will get limber holes. I'm going to dry fit the stringers into the boat first to see where the holes will be of best use first.

At first when I saw the picuter come back up I thought maybe I missed something. I tried to find reall clear stock to work with. This lumber was actually intended for a strip build canoe I've yet to construct.

The pic of the transom covered on one side was a really fresh picture of the transom. I was too affraid to mess too much with it. Believe it or not the resin really laid down the longer it sat. It doesn't look too bad now, in that pic it does look pretty rough!

Thanks!
Lowell
 

Saskatoon2005

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
810
Re: The stRingers are out!

Just cut notches in the base of the stringers....no need to drill holes and place in pvc pipe....as long as you a seal all edges of the cut with resin....I started working at a fiberglass shop here and have learned quite a few things already...LOL!
 

OhioLowell

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
189
Re: The stRingers are out!

Here's a few shots of the center stringer pieces starting to come together. Here's a shot of the lumber ready to go onto the "jig" to hold the scarf in place until the resin kicks.
IMG_0301.jpg


And here are 2 shots of the finished product. Now they're long enough to meet the length that I need. The scarf is covered on one side with a samll piece of mat.
IMG_0302.jpg


IMG_0303.jpg


I have also glassed the other side of the transom, that was pretty uneventful. The transom is now ready to be sanded and go into the boat! WOOOHOOOOOOOOO!

I do have another question though. For my fillets on the stringers is it acceptable to use sawdust from my father-in-law's belt sander so long as I don't allow the mixture to dry too much? So long as I keep it moist and don't add too much sawdust to the fillet mixture then it shoudl work?

Thanks
Lowell
 

Saskatoon2005

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
810
Re: The stRingers are out!

The best is fiberglass bits mixed with resin....cut up fiberglass mat into the resin (make it very very fine) and stir it up and then make a peanut butter consistency and then use it to make fillets.....extremely strong bond...just learned that yesterday at myjob.....LOL!

Patrick
 

OhioLowell

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
189
Re: The stRingers are out!

ARGGGGG! Now I'm waiting on the stinkin weather again! We had beautiful weather for 2 days now thery're calling for rain and YUK for the next 3!

Maybe the boat building gods are against me!

I'll keep you posted.

Maybe saturday will be nicer and I'll get the transom in the boat.

Lowell
 

Yacht Dr.

Vice Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
5,581
Re: The stRingers are out!

Ohio.... I know its late in the game but here I go..
This is what I would do if I had your project...

1.Purchase 2 cases of beer.

2.Buy a resporator,safty glasses,grinding suits ( 2 or 3 ), ear plugs or even better ear muffs, 1 box of latex gloves, some baby powder to put in your suit b4 grinding,rags to tarp your head neck and eventually clean with. ; NOW at this point grind, cut , sand , prep EVERYTHING that you need all at one shot ...

2a. Buy some 4 1/2" 24 - 36 grit abrasive grinding disks for your harbor frieght angle grinder ( 24 grit works great and is preferred for fiberglass mechanical bonds ... 80 grit is WAY to fine for proper adheasion ) Dont layup any fiberglass to 80 grit scratches ! 40 grit or harder !

2b. Buy 5 gal of polyester Resin with MEKP hardener ( your " strength" is not SO much more per cost of epoxy than it is with polyester..and much harder to layup fiberglass. you will find your epoxy will run out of the glass and puddle and run..and create such a mess.) ( fiberglass has what is called "binders" in them..compatibility for poly or epoxy..) but you probably allready found that out if you allready started laying up with epoxy in colder weather conditions.

2c. Buy 5 gal ACETONE ! .., some 3" throw away brushes ( for laying up and so on ) , and a " BUBBLE or sometimes called Resin roller. ( this nifty item is used to roll out bubbles and create shape in your fiberglass layups. I prefer the plastic type and in a 4" width. so ask your local fiberglass dealer for a 4" plastic bubble roller. )

3. So now that you have cut , ground , sanded , basically PREPPED your whole working area ( that includes if your gonna glass our deck to the hullsides..or repaint / Gel anything ) its time to vacuum or air blow all the crap outa there ( Dont un-suit or remove your resporator while doing this ) I see your working outside on your property so its no big deal unless you forgot to roll up your windows on your pickup..or worse your wifes car ! :D

3.a Drink some more beer

4. Cut and DRY Fit your stringers ( I would make the same dimentions ..IE. how HIgh was your stringer b4 your start ) It looked to me that the stringer system was under your ribs and your " ribs " were the actual support system for your floor with the stringers supporting your ribs .. make it the same but now your stringers are cut and fit to the same highth of your ribs.( I can understand why the floor is so low..you can now make your seats or platforms above that with more personal preferance from seat to floor and gunwale )

5. DONT FOAM ! .. you dont have enough space under your floor to make a darn bit of difference of floatation or regidity .. and what other posters didnt mention is there are different "densities" of foam. Are they talking simple 2,4,6 lb foam..or 22 lb foam which you could take a hammer to and hardly dent it ? were talking 4-10-20 expansion rate.. if you dont have enough vent holes in your floor and poor too much your gonna pour and about 5-10 minuts later hear a " CAPOWWWW !! " your foam just blew your floor up ! you must be VERY carfull filling subfloors with expansion foam !

5a. Heck..its friday..drink another cold one :)

6. Now on to your transom..It appeared to me that your "drain" is a solid brass tube type through fitting..thats finished on the outside. so our plug is an expansion type rubber plug from the inside ( you unplug your fitting with a flick of a lever..pull out your plug...bogg our engine so the bow "rides up" then creates a vacuum out the transome therefore sucking the water out. Dont Change that to an exterior screw-in type. Why put in a Bilge Pump ? you have no bilge. Take in water...bog motor..extract water out of the drain plug. ( you wont take on water if your moving forward without a plug..you will extract it ).

7. Transom..replace what you need m8. if you need 2 1/4 " to mate your current sides..then do that. you should grind and glass outside seam of transom at least 6" per side ( 6" on trans..and 6 " on sides and bottom..) or if your gonna glass the transom itself then wait till your ready to glass your ply on outside then do it all at once. wrap your transom glass to sides when glassing your transom exterior. Interior...glass grind..glass again.

8. Use only 1.5 oz mat for initial bonding ( stringers and all..start with this ) biaxial or woving roving between mats if mat isnt stitched to your glass.

9. take time to cut your glass man..dry run everything..when your ready..catalize and go ! you can allways clean dripps and splatters with your acetone and rags.

YD.

PS. You CANNOT apply epoxy or polyester resin to itself or another without proper prepping ( epoxy cannot just be applied to anything including itself after cureing..you must take off any blushing or shine )

GL YD
 

Saskatoon2005

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
810
Re: The stRingers are out!

Yacht Dr,

you seem to know what you are talking about....I may learn something from you too...LOL! Thanks for the input....

Patrick
 

OhioLowell

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
189
Re: The stRingers are out!

Thanks again for all the help gang!

The weather looks like it may break on Tuesday. If it does, I've already told my wife that nothing will be getting done on that evening because the transom will be going in the boat. As well as (maybe) the center stringer.

Yaht,
Thanks for the input. The only problem that I have is that the glass is already laid up on the exterior of the transom. I've bought the epoxy for the transom already so that is what I'll use for putting it in. I plan on bulding up a big fillet around the peremiter of the transom and then glassing at least 6" onto the transom and the hull.

I'm not trying to be a terd here but you're the only person to mention anything about 24 grit grinding wheels? Isn't it acceptable to just grind down to bare glass? It was my understanding that this is all that is really required for a good bond.

Thanks,
Lowell
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: The stRingers are out!

It's nice to have somebody here that likes to type and can give good instructions.
 
Top