The stRingers are out!

Yacht Dr.

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Re: The stRingers are out!

Ohio..I really wish I was helping ya man...

1. You used some "bondo" resin..not my first choice..but expences are a factor I understand m8..

2. You didnt saturate your bonds with thinned resin prior to your stringer jointing..probably wont be too much of an issue ( though looking at your pics you were better off using scab peaces of stringer to joint them together..your matting is worthless IMO..you just basically tied the 45 angles with resin and one layer of mat between them and then globbed the rest on top. Your Bond Cast is weak ..again in MHO.

2a. I would scab some ply in the joint areas and glass them if they dont interfere with your ribs ( hopfully the joint areas are between your ribs

3. congrats on using poly with MEKP..its sooo much easier then pox .

if you want to call me pm me m8
 

OhioLowell

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Re: The stRingers are out!

Thanks!

YEs I agree that the way I joined the stringers wasn't the best. I just stuck them together to make it a little easier to get them in and out of the boat while doing the fitting. I figure they'll get their strength from the fiberglass that they'll be bedded in.

I did have another question though. I was cleaning up the new transom this evening and was wondering how much I should rough up the new glass to clean out all of the blush? I was thinking maybe running the random orbit sander with some 80 grit over it breifly to scuff it up.

Why don't you like bondo resin?


Thanks
Lowell
 

Nova II 260

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Re: The stRingers are out!

MEK or Laq. thinner should wash the blush off.
Did you not buy non-blushing? aaarrrgghh! ; :%
If you're going to add another application of poly or epox, rough it up good 60 or 36 grit. Vacuum and chem clean before next application.
Eric
 

Saskatoon2005

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Re: The stRingers are out!

It is fine if you did not buy non-blushing resin! No big deal. Just remember that if you let it sit to cure you'll need to roughen it up and then clean it with acetone or paint thinner before trying to add more resin and glass. Don't sweat it, if your budget allowed for it (blush) then don't let what other guys say in here get to you. You will have no less of strength by using a blushing resin so don't worry about it.

C'mon guys, lets try and be a little fore helpful here. Not everyone has the same budget as everyone else, so if the tools they work with are a little bit different just give them the advise that bet suits what they have. Your going to scare away alot of people from trying to do there own repairs....and lets not......LOL! Good Luck!

Patrick
 

OhioLowell

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Re: The stRingers are out!

THanks all!

The poly I'm using isn't non blushing.

However the epoxy that I bought IS nonblushing.

I used the poly on the glass on the transom to learn with.


Thanks
Lowell
 

Yacht Dr.

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Re: The stRingers are out!

Unless you put a wax solution in your poly resin you will not have a blushing affect. Blushing is only for Epoxy resins

Acetone Acetone Acetone... the only solvent and cleaning agent you should use.

If your poly has cured then you should use 24-36 grit paper to prep for more glass. Acetone will "soften" your existing poly areas to some extent depending on how long it has been since your last layup.. so in conjuction with your grinding and wiping with acetone you will get a mechanical as well as some chemical bond.

you DONT want to prep your surface with 80 grit for glassing..its simply not enough.

as for your stringers .. after you dry fit and think your ready to glass them in.. clean everything..reduce your resin approx. 25-30 % and saturate your wood ( outside your boat ) then install..and goto town..glass .

remember..when you have everything "dry" fit have all your glass CUT! have your rollers brushes buckets gloves resporator and ALL your ducks in a row BEFORE mixing up any of your resin !

If you are set..and look over again..and one more time..then kick your resin and go go go go dont stop just keep going ( if you loose something in the process..dont stop..keep mixing and layup as much as you can )

I preferr to get in and grind or glass at one time..IE takes 3 days to separate your glassing schedule out..or you can just take 3 hours and bank it out.

If you do end up having air pockets here and there..simply grind them out and put some little layups there and there..

its really not that hard..dont overcomplicate things..get in there and do it when your absolutly sure your Ready ! dont be scared..you can fix anything m8 :)

PS. dont EVER just wipe your surface with anything and expect it to bond correctly after it has cured !
 

Nova II 260

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Messages
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Re: The stRingers are out!

Patrick, You're right on (and with) the money scaring people. Staying within budget is imperative. I for one, have made my feelings public about NOT building a 100 yr. exotic material boat. However, I kinda like spending Lowell's money. d:)
 

Saskatoon2005

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Messages
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Re: The stRingers are out!

I have been working in a fiberglass shop for only a week but have learned tons of information about the industry. I have made a few fiberglass sewage containers for the government and everything was out of polyesther resin and chopped glass. Then when it came time to fit the peices together, we hand laid up mat and resin and man it is strong, and you don't need epoxy resin stuff to get the structural integrity at all. Most boats of early sixties were chopped in a mold first sprayed with a gel coat.

We did absolutely no fillets and did not incorporate wood into anything we built, so I still have learning to do in boat restoring, as far as transom repair and stringers and floors. But working with fiberglass is getting quite easy for me as I have learned the basics and hands on really really helps. Now I am not so scared to work on my boat when the spring finally comes here in Canada. The temps are just getting up to 0 degree Celcius, and slightly above....LOL! Good luck everyone on there projects......

Patrick
 

OhioLowell

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Re: The stRingers are out!

Thanks all!

I'l get some heavier grit sand paper this week to finish preping the new transom. Now they're calling for a chance of rain on Tuesday, so it looks like the install has been pushed off until Thursday. It's supposed to be nice all day Thursday. That will give me some extra time to cutup some of my left over scrap FG into fill media.

dr,
You mentioned reducing my resin by 25-30% to seal the stringers before I intall them. DO I cut the resin mixture with actone to get the desired result?

Thanks for all the help!
Lowell
 

ondarvr

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Apr 6, 2005
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Re: The stRingers are out!

Thinning resin, polyester or epoxy, is not really recommended by the manufacturers of the products, although it is commonly done. The idea is to let the resin penetrate deeper into the wood, and it sort of works. The problem is, the resins have not been formulated to have other things added to them in these large amounts and it can, and will, degrade the physical properties of both types of resin.
 

Yacht Dr.

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Re: The stRingers are out!

well..you could try this..

get yourself a scrap piece of wood that your using as your stringers..mix up a small batch of thinned resin with acetone...layup a couple small pieces of mat on both penetrated and non penitrated areas of wood. let kick for a couple days and then try to peel off your glass .. determine it for yourself m8.

Im not telling you how you should do things..just how I do them. and there are many ways to do things in this industry.

peace YD.
 

ondarvr

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Re: The stRingers are out!

Pre-coating the wood with resin is the most important part in getting a good bond, thinned or unthinned, some wood may take a second or third coat of resin to before it stops soaking in. People frequently recommend adding acetone or styrene in large amounts to resin and gel coat. Does it work, like I said, sort of, but it can, and does, weaken the resin. Resin and gel coat suppliers do not recommend this practice, but it's done fairly often. I never thin with large amounts of anything, but each person can do it in a way they're comfortable with.
 

Yacht Dr.

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Re: The stRingers are out!

just a quick question here..dont gemme wrong..just a question..

How do you reduce your gel-coat for spray ?
 

ondarvr

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Re: The stRingers are out!

Normally with Patchaid, and yes, some times I will use small amounts of acetone and or styrene, 5% or less

Patchaid has promoters in it that will help the gelcoat cure in thin a thin film, plus it's made with resin and a few other things to reduce the viscosity and not have such an adverse effect on gel coat.
 

Yacht Dr.

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Re: The stRingers are out!

patchaid is good for prevals..but..what if your doing a full hull spray ? would you use it in a 2qt or 3 gal pressure pot ? without thinning ?

Patchaid is a cold cure additive. can be used with resin or gel..

or what if your using a gel from europe ? there VOC's are highly regulated..meaning your getting some gell that resembles patch paste.

again..not to disrespect what your saying..but you should be disclosing the effects of additives such as patchaid. ..FASTER then normal cure time...less pot life..CAREFULL..

you must add things like mek or acetone to give more pot life..and depending on your thickness of your origonal resin would dictate your thinning..

PS. styrene will YELLOW your gel..IMHO do not use for thinning GEL-COATS ... MEK is best..IMHO

peace YD.
 

ondarvr

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Re: The stRingers are out!

There are many different formulas of patchaid, some reduce the viscosity, some don't, some reduce the gel time, some don't, some have wax, some don't, (and almost any combination of these) you just need to get the correct one for the job, but they're all formulated to get the best results when used as recommended.

Gel coats can be, and are sprayed every day in pressure pots without being thinned and if you want it thinner to suit your needs, as in a very large repair, you can buy it that way to start with, or use the correct patchaid. But for use in molds they should be sprayed as is.

As for gel coats from Europe, they are typically formulated very differently than the US made products, in many parts of Europe you can't atomize (spray) gel coat, so it's rolled and brushed and designed to be used that way. Plus in the past they've had different expectations of how it will perform on the part being made. And why would you want to be using a gel coat made there?

With resin, you can get high and low viscosity resins and again, you get the best results using the correct product for each job. Every time you add other ingrediants to any of these products it may create problems.

Yes, I do know that styrene can cause yellowing, that's why it's not recommened to be used, especially on a repair that will be exposed to UV rays. It can also effect the cure, water resistance and make it more brittle (gel coat and resin).
 

OhioLowell

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Re: The stRingers are out!

WHEW! Good thing I don't have to worry about gel coat! lol:love:

I;ll probably just coat the stringers with unthinned poly before they go into the boat. If the first coat gets sucked up too bad then I'll hit it with another coat before the first kicks over.

Thanks for the help!
Lowell
 

Saskatoon2005

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Re: The stRingers are out!

Don't you hate it when your post get hijacked...LOL! Just kidding....

Are there new pictures coming soon?

Just curious......LOL!

Patrick
 

OhioLowell

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Messages
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Re: The stRingers are out!

Well, I just checked the weather report for Thursday. Now the goofs are calling for a 50% chance of rain!!!!!

ARGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!:|:|:|:|

The temo is supposed to be in the mid 70s though. So we may be working in the rain under a tarp. I would think that water in the epoxy wouldn't be good thing? I've got a big tarp over the boat now. I may move the boat closer to the house to make using the tarp easier.

I guess we'll just have to see when we get there.

As for any new pictures. I'll try to get one tonight when I dry fit the transom and the center stringer. That is if I can steal the time. We're in the middle of preparing for my son's birthday party right now so extra time is at a premium, although, Thursday is TRANSOM night! lol

Thanks all!
Lowell
 
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