Pontoon rebuild / redesign

[archbuilder]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Thanks for all the great ideas guys! I'm going to have to sit back and absorb all this info, lol!

Is there any chance you've got a spray foam insulation project coming up any time soon?

I just draw it JB, someone else gets to build it, lol! Most of the stuff we are doing right now is remodel, not much new stuff going on. That is a great idea however! I may have to call in a few favors!

Bobby, One of my clients is The Store Decor.

That stuff is pretty cool....I have used some plastic covered foam columns a couple of times....hard shell with foam inside. I came across a lot of stuff like that when I Googled fiberglass and foam. Let me know what they say...I spent some time tonight reading about home built hotwires on instructables, great suggestion JB.

Get some of the synthetic stucco mesh , glue mesh tight over form, then install your screed,s maybe out of cord or clothes line

Hey that is a great idea, I didn't think about that. I had thought about cutting the cardboard filler so the "open tubes" were facing the finished surface....that way the mud had something to "bite" into. But the mesh might be a lot better to give it some tooth. The cord might be a good way to go, but I'm wondering if something rigid might follow the contours better?

Warrant Officer Ripley

I couldn't place that one at first and had to google it.....I laughed when I figured out the reference. I don't think any space alien would want to show up at an I-boats meet....it would surely find itself fiberglassed, riveted, pumped full of foam, painted, and floating in a lake with a Corona bill board stuck on its side!

I did find the guy building the car....haven't studied it, but some pretty amazing work.

http://www.youtube.com/user/BaileyBlade?feature=watch

Thanks for all the ideas!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Warrant Officer Ripley:
I couldn't place that one at first and had to google it.....I laughed when I figured out the reference. I don't think any space alien would want to show up at an I-boats meet....it would surely find itself fiberglassed, riveted, pumped full of foam, painted, and floating in a lake with a Corona bill board stuck on its side!

Can we mount a tow rope on it & give it a spin behind Miss Morgan? And are the 'glass & rivets really necessary, exo-skeleton & all? She does have a fairly large brow ridge to use as wave cutter!

I try to avoid the instructables site, unless I have an hour or 2.... Lots of stuff I'd like to dabble in. I spent a very long time with the metal forge & casting info, and if I thought I might ever need it for something other then my cleat I want to replicate, I might give it a shot. But for 4 cleats, I think I'll keep after another solution. CreativeCastings, in Tacoma, is really not too bad. But add shipping & then powder coat or chroming & they do end up being very costly cleats.

Glad to have helped. Maybe you'll get a hookup from the store decor connection.

Hey, is stretching fleece like a custom car audio shop & glassing it a possibility? I don't know the mold terms yet, but are you trying to make a form to layup & pull a finished part off of? Or a form that will be used to make the mold that once removed from this form will have a finished part fabbed & pulled from it. I think that's the difference between a plug & a mold, is that correct?

 

[orangeman]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

When joint compound is applied in a thick coat it sags, shrinks and cracks. I think you would need to add some reinforcement mesh or something if you go that route. Any joint compound that sands easily also scratches easily. I would go with foam coated with bondo then primer. My only other idea is modeling clay like they use in the auto industry. I don't have any idea how expensive that would be. I like JBcurt00's idea of using the fleece that,s how they make the curvy sub woofer enclosures for custom car audio.

 

[sphelps]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

If your ribs are spaced 1 inch apart I don,t think quick set joint compound would would sag that much it,s only 1/4 inch thick at the most.
But I like orangeman idea using bondo it would hold up better. This is just a mold to make mold I think so if it were scratched would it matter? You may want to find a rubber joint knife to apply mud or bondo because a reg trowel would make flat spots between the screeds.
You can also use a peice of rubber wall base cut what ever size to make it easy,er .

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

I did find the guy building the car....haven't studied it, but some pretty amazing work.

http://www.youtube.com/user/BaileyBlade?feature=watch

Depending on what you want to model the surface out of: The place this guy ^^^ gets his modeling Y2-Klay (?!?!? really ?!?!? must be free spirit, high falutin hollywood clay) has it on sale thru Jan 2012. Watched a few vids, pretty interesting, amazing that it's cockpit & windshield started out as a Miata..... I poked around the site but didn't see a possible road ready mock up test date. At around vid #24, in mid Oct/Nov 2009, they projected a 2010 production date, missed that by more then a little..... That's about my speed......

For $8.95/bucket (random bucket sizes should be expected, some may still have the Kraft mayo or Jifffy PB sticker on them) + freight, I bet most of us would send you buckets of clay (sticks & gravel included free of charge) to help off-set the resto's we've taken on.....
​

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

OK so it was a looonnnngggg day at work!

Orangeman, I have more experience with joint compound than I would like to think about Shrinkage is an issue, but I think I can make it work if put on a heavy layer, let it shrink, crack, whatever....dry out for a few days, then start putting a few thin layers on top of it...filling in the low spots and cracks.

Sphelps, good idea on the flexible trowel. But I'm not to worried if I can get the surface close with some flat facets.. as long as I have it close. I can spend some time getting the the details right.

The bondo would be more durable, but more $$. This is just the plug, so all I need it to do is hold together long enough to spray some gelcoat on it and lay up some glass. After that it goes in the dumpster.....the gel and glass become the mold that we will pull the part or for that mater parts off of. After I get the wood, joint compound and whatever else where I want it, I'll hit it with some primer....sand, wax and get it slicked up for the gel.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Have you considered paper Mache'. Cheap White School House glue thinned 30% and newspaper strips. They make pinata's out of it. Spray some lacquer on it and it should be good to go. You can even sand it and shape it when it's dry.

 

[sphelps]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Have you considered paper Mache'. Cheap White School House glue thinned 30% and newspaper strips. They make pinata's out of it. Spray some lacquer on it and it should be good to go. You can even sand it and shape it when it's dry.

That,s a good idea just hope the kids don,t start beatin on it with a stick ! sorry Wood just joken round
Your right Arch it has been a looooong day!
S.P.

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

I might have to try the paper mache'....that might be a good solution. Today I'm going to work on my rib method and see how it goes. I'm going to take some scrap and build something that is similar to where the gunnel and bow come together....I can tell this is going to be messy already, lol!

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

I hope everyone is having a good weekend. I did chores yesterday morning, then picked up some supplies for the mockup before lunch. During lunch I contemplated the mock up and got to thinking about the strait section. I would like to mock-up the curve section and a strait section. At first I thought about just making up a generic curved section, but got to thinking I need to study the real thing. I didn't ask for the 3d drawings this week, so I don't have the curve info yet....so I thought I would start on the strait section. I got back and realized that I didn't have a good drawing of what I wanted to do. So I started working on that....then realized that something wasn't right with the section I had drawn through the gunnel..................$%">@@#!! I had somewhere in the process screwed up the drawing or didn't update it. Anyhow I spent about 2 hours correcting the drawings, no major changes, just a slightly steeper slope of the upper part of the gunnel in the drawings. After that I went to work on drawing how I would build the plug. That was more frustrating than you might think....or I'm too detailed one of the two . I didn't like how the two sloped faces were coming together, so I added a vertical section where the joint was....sort of a belt. Then came up with two options, a flat faced option, and a curved face option.

Any opinions? I like the curved option, but it may make the gunnel look taller, which I would like it to read low as possible. Here is what the side elevation will look like with the "belt".

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Although the flat faced sides would be a definitely updated look, it's much closer to the original look. I like the curved cross section (spent too much time w the MRS, I now pick the harder & more expensive option).

In straight portions across the very front, or along the sides could you use smooth FRP to make the plug's skin?

Still digging the profile view

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Amazing and Kinda Scary how Great Minds think alike...I have to agree with jbc...on both counts...the straight, belted sides look somewhat more modern, while the curved looks almost art deco...either, or, is gonna look awesome...

The sides and front should be no problem with either design, it is just the corners/curves where things seem to get a bit complicated...:facepalm:

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

In straight portions across the very front, or along the sides could you use smooth FRP to make the plug's skin?

That was my plan, I think it will work well for that. The curved section is going to be Masonite. I just realzed that this still has the strait section on the bow profile. I'm probably going to put a curve on that too. Off to give more money to HD .

 

[sphelps]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Not that I have a great mind . I do agree with jbc and gt . The curved side,s kinda match the pontoons..

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Good point on the curve and the pontoons. I think I'm going to try mocking up the curved panel. Two reasons: 1st it is the hardest, if I get it to work the strait sections should be easy. 2: I haven't mocked it up, so its a good opportunity to see what it is going to look like.

I just had a thought while at home depot. The gunnel sections are identical in profile, in other words the same plug could make a left or a right piece. The curves on the other hand are handed, left and right. I have been toying with the idea of a "door" on the bow for some time. If I add that then I have two pieces plus the door. In stead of building a big u-shaped plug and mold, what if I used the side section plug and mold to build both the left and right sides? That would cut down on plug and mold materials by about 1/3rd. I'll draft something up real quick so you can see the idea.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

If you mold the L & R curves, can you pull a straight 'door' or bow center section from the straight sided gunnels? Or make the side gunnels in 2 pcs, screwed together w/ packing tape over the seam. Either both of the long side pcs 1st or the front center section.....

More brain work, less fab & actual work, is always well spent work

^^^ this of course is based on the 'door' having the same cross section as the side gunnels, which may prove difficult to hinge...... Lambo hinges.?.?.. More channeling of the Warrant Officer Ripley theme....

A 2nd thought @door, is not a conventional swinging door, more of a lift out 'gate' to make load & unload easier.....

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Ok, here is what I have in mind. I would love to figure out how to get rid of the parting line and have a single part mold. I don't see that happening given the section. I would have to install a "stop" to form aft end of each part, but I think that is doable. Any suggestions?

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

this of course is based on the 'door' having the same cross section as the side gunnels, which may prove difficult to hinge

It will have a a different profile, but building the door should be a piece of cake!

I have thought about rethinking the loungers too, building one plug would save money and time....other than the endless drafting on this project, lol! But erasing in AUTOCAD is a lot easier than changing a mistake on a plug.

 

[orangeman]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

I agree that having a single plug for both left and right corners/loungers is the way to go. I had actually assumed this is what you were planning to do all along. As for the curved vs. straight question I like the curved but am not sure how it would look with the front/loungers and other design elements. Interested in seeing the mock up.

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Just one more thought for you arch. Once you get the shape the way you want it and a reasonably surface you could wrap it in vinyl to give you a nice smooth surface to spray the gelcoat on and a good release. I have used several things like vinyl before with good results.
It is going to look really cool when you get her done.
Take care
Bob