Pontoon rebuild / redesign

[GT1000000]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Thanks again, arch...very informative.

Now, acouple of questions...

What are you planning to use the models for, besides full scale visual reference... once finalized, will you be using these to make actual computer numerical templates to then make molds, or just using these as bucks and molding off of them???

I remember you mentioned having a friend who can have these made up into molds. How would that process work out using your mock-ups?

My inquiring mind wants to know...:redface:

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

GT the plan is to model the final design in 3d, then send the files over to a CAD CAM foam cutting place. They will build the molds from EPS (Styrofoam). Duratech industries sells a coating that you can spray over the EPS that will protect it from the poly. It will also help to fill the voids in the foam. I'm planning a mock up a little later on down the road to test out the process.

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Wood, Miss Morgan will breathe a sigh of relief.....

 

[bear_69cuda]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Hey Arch,

Thanks for the videos, I dig how your brain works dude...

I learned way more than a thing or two!

I'm looking forward to the molding mock up's...

How many total hours do you think you'll have into the current mock?

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

How many total hours do you think you'll have into the current mock?

I really don't have any idea, I would guess 60 hours or so all together...including the small pieces I started with and the one bow section that didn't work out. The curved stuff takes all the time, the strait sections are pretty quick.

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Nice work arch, as normal.
I can hardly wait for the finished product.

Bob

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Time for an update. The foam guys finally got back with me on the price to build the U shaped section for the bow / gunnels. By the time I prep it I'm looking at about 2K for the mold....that doesn't really surprise me, but I was trying to be optimistic.

So I have been brain storming this morning on how to cut cost....my budget was already pretty minimal, so spending 2K on one mold isn't helping things out. I have seen some videos on mold-less construction. Sorry I can't remember who, but someone had suggested doing something like that earlier over the cardboard. I'm still not convinced that I would be happy with the end product.

So that leaves building a normal glass plug and mold. I'm leaning that way right now, but the compound curves on the corners are still problematic. I'm thinking about building ribs like I did with the card board, then covering them with a layer of glass, making sure everything is lower than the finished surface. After that I can fill in the low spots with joint compound.....then prime and polish to form the plug. If I have the corners modeled in 3D, I can cut some really accurate ribs for guides.

I think the next step is to have my freind model that part of the boat. The strait sections are no problem to build with wood, its the corners that are the issue. I'm wondering if the foam cost will go way down if I have the foam guys cut the curved plug corners....then build the rest with MDF. It would be nice to build the plug, just so I can see what it looks like.

Anyone have any suggestions? I wish I didn't have to build right and left molds, that would cut the mold building in half. I might want too re-evaluate the design based on that.

 

[Last Mohican]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

That's a tough one Bobby. maybe coating the cardboard with resin and doing some filling and sanding is the best solution to make the plug. You can do an awful lot of filling and sanding for 2K. That thing sure looks sweet as it is. I hope you don't have to change it much just for budget reasons.

 

[Pmccraney]

Man, I wish I had something helpful to offer, but you are way out of my league. Like a lot of " crossroads" we come to in this process, the right approach will become clear to you with some more thought and maybe a sudsy beverage or three. I know the results will be top notch whatever you decide.

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

maybe coating the cardboard with resin and doing some filling and sanding is the best solution to make the plug

I thought about that, but I don't think the cardboard is rigid enough to take all the sanding. I also think the MDF will give me a good surface with a couple coats of primer. Its the corners that are the hard part.

My freind is going to start the model today, so I should have some more info to work off of pretty quick. I may try making a corner out of cardboard based on the model.....if that goes good, then try it with Masonite and mdf.

maybe a sudsy beverage or three

That always does the trick, lol!

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Ok Patrick, I had a few suds after work and thought through this.....actually sketched through this. The hard parts are the corners as we know. I started thinking about them as a sold mass, not a thin skin. more or less like the cardboard mock up with the air spaces filled in. one possibility is to have that made out of foam. One other idea I had was to cut the corner in sections horizontally, more or less like the card board ribs, but turned 90 degrees. Lets say I have Brian (the guy building the 3D model), cut sections every 1" vertically. I take that and cut out a template or ribs made out of Masonite. But I hold it 1/4" short of the finished surface. I take the ribs, space them out 1" center to center and stack them up. That gives me the skeleton. But there is a void space between each rib.....fill that in with cardboard. After that fill in-between the ribs and the cardboard with joint compound. It will crack, but as long as there is a bond it doesn't matter. Put another layer on to fill in shrinkage cracks. At this point we have a surface that is starting to take the shape of the final plug. The key is to make sure the ribs are the high spots and the joint compound is slightly less, at this point it is just filler. After some careful sanding, run "lath" perpendicular to the ribs, more or less like the ribs in the mock up. Space them so that they are about 1" apart. Since they will converge as they head to the top, There will be a lot of short sections. Anyhow make the lath out of plastic or wood 1/4" by 1/4".....maybe with the sides tapered. These will be screeds to form the finished surface. Fill between with joint compound.....after it dries an shrinks, pull out the lath, fill the holes. That should give me the finished shape within 1/16" of an inch. At that point it is dressing it up. Any thoughts?

I also toyed with building a jig for a hot wire, and just cutting it out of foam, that might be easier. I need to study the geometry a little more to see if that makes sense. I might be able to use the jig for a laminate router also, anyone ever cut foam with a router?

Ok so that all makes sense in my head.....I need to build a study mock-up to see if the theory works!

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Sent you a PM...:redface:

 

[Pmccraney]

I understood the part where you had a few suds after work, then I got confused a bit.... You are on another level, bro. May be time for another vid to educate us.. Keep in mind we were following along like eager school kids when you showed us basic tools and how to cut cardboard. Long story short, I knew the suds would work....

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

^^^ Ah yeah, suds I got, & I was right there with ya through cutting sections & Masonite, then I lost the ability to visualize where you were headed....... But, ya, all that sounds about right.......

Hopefully, even when we don't follow along, just the act of writing/typing it out helps....

I don't know if you're familiar w/ Instructables.com.... Anything & everything in 1 form or another. Yes, I made the velvetta brownies (yes, (yuk!) the fake processed cheese food made into brownies! They are most excellent by the way....) and I have the parts assembled to make the dual microwave transformer welder..... Scary place if you spend any time thinking about it, so I don't....... Anyway, there are quite a few CNC, 3D modeling~router instructables..... I didn't see 1 that would cut foam at this large a scale but poke around....

And try the brownies! Just don't drink ANY colored liquids from PMC or Jas....... Especially if you already own 1 of the funny orange robes!:facepalm: There are alot of interesting recipes for adult frosty libations in as well..........

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

It will all make sense latter......maybe! Take a look at the topography section on this web site.

http://www.ulsinc.com/markets/architectural/

They have cut layers that start to take the shape of the land they are modeling. We are doing the same thing more or less, but with Masonite. The difference being that they have stacked the card board one on top of another. I will be putting spacers between the layers of Masonite....that way I don't have I five hundred pound chunk of Masonite! Between the layers I will fill in with cardboard....it is just a filler. once I do that I will put joint compound over the frame work to "fill-in" the space between the ribs and form the smooth surface. I think it will make sense when I build the mock up. I did hear back from my friend who does drywall, he said that the quick set compounds shrink very little. Now I need to come up with time to actually work on it!

I have seen a few of he instructables....but hadn't thought about looking there....I will take a look to see what they have on there.

 

[orangeman]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

How about sandwiching rigid foam between the ribs and then sanding the foam with longboards using the ribs as guides. Or cut sections out of foam glue them together and sand smooth. Don't have any experience doing what your trying to do, just throwing out ideas. I'm enjoying following your thread hope you keep at it.

 

[archbuilder]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

How about sandwiching rigid foam between the ribs and then sanding the foam with longboards using the ribs as guides.

You know I saw a guy doing a car that way, the entire body! I was amazed with his work. I'm not sure if he used the Masonite, I think he just cut it out and hand shaped it. I'm thinking the joint compound and cardboard maybe cheaper....but then it may turn out to be a big mess. If it doesn't work then I may try out the foam.....I'm just wondering how smooth the surface of the foam would be?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Is there any chance you've got a spray foam insulation project coming up any time soon? This looks like a perfect opportunity to make base or wire frame structures & spray them & profile the sprayed foam. Kind of reminds me of Sci-Fi set model making. Especially the lounger 'pod'. All you need to do is stencil Warrant Officer Ripley on it.....

Or try to get the large commercial canisters of insulation & a nozzle, instead of the GreatStuff we've all used. It is a firmer end product, and expands more. It's what CC254 is going to use on the inside of his engine cover he reinforced w/ ply, glass & poly. His insulation guy agreed to spray it for him at the end of a insulation job. Just has to make the cover available at the job site.

Those set mockups profile & sand really well. Rough w/ a grater style rasp, belt sand, finish w/ random orbital. There is all the 'yellow' snow from sanding the foam to deal with, but my crew all knows to avoid the yellow snow

 

[Last Mohican]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Bobby, One of my clients is The Store Decor. We make a lot of sculpture out of foam billets. I'll be in there later this week. I'll go down to the foam shop and see if they have any suggestions. You can look through the Portfolio section of the site. Most if not all the 3 dimensional sculpture is hard coated Styrofoam.

www.thestoredecor.com

Here is a pretty cool time lapse Youtube vid of one of our artists carving a giant baseball glove for a McDonalds booth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmhf...xt=C3b3e47aUDOEgsToPDskILPkwWxbZ_eJlWY716I5b9

 

[sphelps]

Re: Pontoon rebuild / redesign

Hey Arch, If you do the quick set joint compound maybe you can glue in masonite lateral support pieces inbetween the vert ribs. Get some of the synthetic stucco mesh , glue mesh tight over form, then install your screed,s maybe out of cord or clothes line. Install 20 min mud , pull the screed,s fill in with more 20 min, skim with regular mud. You can sand reg mud alot easy'er. Prime touch up and paint.
Might work....
S.P.