One nation under God......Maybe?

[bay5884]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

I just think everyone should be able to beleive whatever they want, not push "evangalize" on other people, and stop making it a barrier between people. Guess if athiest is gonna be a label or another religion, i'm not that either. I'm "the man without a religion"<br /><br />Djohns, I said that, and if you didn't try to read so far into every line to find something contradictory, you'd realize that all I meant was that I live the life I have to it's fullest because I think I'm wormfood at the end.

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Hi everybody Been working on my model. I have some pics to post, I'll try to do that later today.<br /><br />This is just one issue that is connected to several other issues by the fact that it is supported primarily by "the left." Who is the left? Folks that support things like the gay lifestyle. Folks that support things like hate crime legislation (what ever happened to equal protection under the law?). Folks that support things lik redistribution of wealth.<br /><br />These people are organized into politcally effective splinter groups who lobby for everything from anti fur laws to drivers licenses for illegal aliens. Little by little they are destroying the fabric, the fundamental underlieing core belief structure that was held closely by the generations of Americans that made this country a truely great nation. <br /><br />The left today is like a man who come home one day with a really nasty pron film, and forces his wife to do all disgusting stuff in video. That is what the left is doing to America. They are organized and politcally powerful enough to force load after load of hogwash down the throats of normal citizens, who are too tired from working to pay taxes and still have a little left over for themselves to do anything about what is really going on. <br /><br />It is time for a revolution. It is time for people of America to wake up demand that the return of our nation from those who have hijacked it and turned it into a litigious circus. It is time to back to the beginning, figure out what was good about the foundation of the constitution, and ditch the crap that has heaped on top of this great document. The French may really suck, but at least they had the guts to take back thier country.

 

[bay5884]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Left, right...there we go, segregating people again...we all have our own opinions. And the problem is not your views or my views...I think we could all agree that the problem is extremist views. Whether it be religion, animal rights, or whatever, some people have nothing better to do than scream and scream until they get their way. And with that, I bid this post farwell...to much arguing...time to see what's in Stupid human tricks! Have a good one everyone!!

 

[SoulWinner]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Think about it, this country was colinized by people seeking freedom from government sanction religion. The people were religious, judeo-Chritian people who formed the laws of the bill of rights and the constitution from the standpoint of Christian morals and ethics, because they were brought up with the Bible, and the teachings therein. A set oflaws based on the moral and ethical teachings of God does not force religion down anyone's throat, it just provides a nice legal basis for a society to exist together in the country.<br /><br />Now the country has been co-opted by a bunch of godless, hellbound individuals who don't see the wrong in the gay lifestyle. Who don't see the damage done by well-fare instead of work-fare. Who think slavery of generations ago demands reparations now. <br /><br />What America needs is to say one unified voice "Go to Hell!" t all the special interests that are screwing the pooch. From the congress to the local municipalities, the power in America needs to shift back to those who are grounded in decent moral and ethical fiber. More Sherif John Arpio (sp?) and less Dianne Fienstien.

 

[DJ]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

bay5884,<br /><br />The post has been edited. Apology offered.

 

[JGREGORY]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Agree with you SW, except the part about the Local Gov't. If there is one place the people do have control it is in the local Gov't. Yet for the last 6 months we have had Zero (0) public attendence at town meetings. Not even the lady who is running for Committee has attendend. You don't like someting in local Gov't attend a meeting and complain. Even more affective if done in large group. <br /><br />Got to go Quiten time.

 

[oddjob]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Soulwinner! how dare you ignore your topic for so long...Good point you make last post with exception to the french comment. I boycott french as well as libs. <br /><br />As you can see by some of posts I prefer to slam back the lib spin without to much detail. Detail is a waste of time with these folks. Explaining your beliefs is futile to people who tactic is to keep you forever in a defensive posture. I've learned that tolerance with these folks is like turning the other cheek to a bully. <br /><br />Remember revolutionaries less is better..fight fire with fire head on. Shout back and dont be shout down. The more you engage the better you become. A bully will not bully someone who always fights back, too much work envolved. <br /><br />I have some Co workers who ambush me to no avail. The only thing that works for me in this situation is to shout them down. Sometimes I dont know what has been said because I wont stop talking until Im the only one talking. Just keep pounding back with your own talking points and change the subject often. If you try to defend, they will pick you apart like a band of hyenas(spelling?). <br /><br />You have to fight people in their own game sometimes to beat or nullify them. <br /><br />You know put words in their mouth, interupt often and AWAYS SMILE. Its no more free rides for the libs! And they feel it.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Alot of misinformation floated here.<br /><br />1. Native Americans are afforded their own nations, laws, courts, and therefore have no standing in this discussion. <br /><br />1A. Other than the Jewish government what other country set up a separate nation for the losers of a war? I'm bored with the guilt trip laid on us for something that nobody is alive to remember personally. FYI the Romans kicked my forefathers into slavery. Italy send me money and special rights.<br /><br />1B. I am aware of the flexablility of the Indian tribes. Look at all their new traditions: Casino's, Unlimited spearfishing on modern powerboats for fish they dump on the side of the roads, Government shakedowns, Terrible tribal schools, sky high rates of alcoholism, drug use and suicide. Not the people I would be taking my cue's from when developing frameworks for the modern American society. They have taken victimization to an art form.<br /><br />2. Nobody is by law mandated to memorize, recite, or acknoledge the pledge. It is mearly ceremonial. Don't like it, Don't say it!!<br /><br />3. "Under God" is not an endorcement of any religion, and therefore not in any way entering the realm of a state sponsered religion. It affords no special rights, advantages, or laws that give an advantage to any one religion. Although it appears that the new religion of modern society is politics itself. It dictates what you can say, do, when you can do something, where you can do something, the way you treat others, and how you can use your property, while having a heirachy just like all religions.<br /><br />4. What motivates people to do anything? Fear and personal gain. What are you all afraid of?<br /><br />5. I don't care what happens one way or another but most on the arguements but forth have little or no basis in fact and therefore have no validity on their face. Rewriting history may help your conscience, but can't stand the light of truth.<br /><br />6. Eric Clapton is----------- Why bother.

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

POINTER94,<br /><br />Good post!<br /><br />Kenny

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Great points POINTER94! Well said.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Right on pointer94......fact remains that this counties founders as well the leaders up until 10-20 yrs ago have had the right to say they were part of the greatest nation ever.Now although I feel we are still the best, there are no gaurintees it will be that way for my kids.As for the above comment on if the goverment gives any money to this homless shelter they shouldnt be allowed to operate as a Christian oginazation, I guess your right, why should the government give anything to help their homeless people out. Shame on those Christians for trying help out american people. I guess the government should open up their own homeless shelter with our tax money eaqauling much much more Im sure, to do the same thing these opressive, judgemental and terrable Christians are doing with there own money as well.

 

[Tacklewasher]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

"As for the above comment on if the goverment gives any money to this homless shelter they shouldnt be allowed to operate as a Christian oginazation, I guess your right, why should the government give anything to help their homeless people out. Shame on those Christians for trying help out american people. I guess the government should open up their own homeless shelter with our tax money eaqauling much much more Im sure, to do the same thing these opressive, judgemental and terrable Christians are doing with there own money as well."<br /><br />The use of public funds carries a different level of responsibility. Funds from the public purse are from the taxes of the individuals in the community and need to be used in a manner consistent with the views of the community. If the community supports the use of thier tax money in this fashion, then all is fine. If the community does not, then the funds should be stopped. If they accept public funding, they can expect to be put under a microscope as to how the funding is used. They cannot have it both ways.<br /><br />Re-read what I said. And don't go putting words in my mouth as you have no friggin idea where I stand on Christianity.

 

[12Footer]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Plywood posted; "Hmmm...I am part Cherokee, and my ancestors were here long before yours were.<br /><br />I think I prefer it to be "Under the Great Spirit"<br /><br />Or must you pray to a Christain god to be a good American? That must be what the founders meant when they suggested that all should be free to practice the religion of their choice, and they just left out the part about "as long as it is European Judao-Christian in origin"<br /><br />Or perhaps the framers left out the part that says "At some point in time, and maybe we should pick the year 2003, we should have a vote and decide which religion has the most followers, and all others just sit down, shut up, and accept it"<br /><br />Hmm, I guess the old Bill of Rights is simply out of date the way it was written, in this enlighened age." <br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />The bill of rights is what we made it. Some didn't like it. But there wasn't enough Plytwoodies to write faith in a higher power that doesn't throw us into dungeons, or freedom and<br />diversity of culture, out of the documentation.<br />Sorry your areolie are in a knot, Plywoody. but that's democracy for ya. Don't like it.Tough. Leave...Please.

 

[Bassy]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

POINTER94- Good post!

 

[plywoody]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Man, all I see in these arguments is why so many people do not think it matters that it is unconstitutional.<br />And 12 ft, your last statement I guess really baffled me. "the bill of rights is what we made it" ??? Now what the heck does that mean, and who is the we you are referring to?<br /><br />I am amazed that this does seem to be an issue of the left---I always thought conservatives wanted to preserve and protect the constitution, but I guess I was wrong.<br /><br />And the mantra that the right wants a smaller, less intrusive government--I guess they mean just small enough to get in our bedrooms and tell us what behaviour is acceptable, and get in our thoughts and private beliefs, and tell us what is and isn't acceptable. How would it be possible for a government to get more intrusive than this???

 

[ob]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

plywoody,Aint nobody but you and your diciples trying to tell people what to do.You're the one that demands that a word be omitted.You gave reasons ,but they are so far fetched,most Americans aint taking the bait.So then the right gets disected and accused of trying to control people.Should Churches also be instructed to remove their external crosses because they are visible from a public street and may offend someone?

 

[JB]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Is this really a left-right issue? I don't think so.<br /><br />If "right" means dedicated to preserving old interpretations of the Constitution and "left" means revising those interpretations, then I guess it is.<br /><br />But I don't think that is it. The rich, Euro-American adult male land owners who wrote it had no idea how the country would change, so their original intents have to be examined in light of their consistent protections of minority points of view and interests from majority domination.<br /><br />Crosses on churches and graves are a protected right to practice one's religion. Other symbols and practices on church or private property are as well.<br /><br />Religious symbols and ceremonies on public property or in government activities are not. Laws requiring religious utterings in government sponsored activities. . .currency, pledges, etc. violate the prohibition against a state religion. They always have and will continue until those whose freedom is abridged by them prevail.<br /><br />That is not from a left winger. It is from a Libertarian about as far right as Goldwater.<br /><br />I will not allow my own religious beliefs to cause me to support unconstitutional laws or practices.<br /><br />If "getting along" means cowtowing to the unjust wishes of a dominant majority, then it is the wrong thing to do.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

But I don't think that is it. The rich, Euro-American adult male land owners who wrote it had no idea how the country would change, so their original intents have to be examined in light of their consistent protections of minority points of view and interests from majority domination.<br />

Well, they did gives us a way to ammend the Constitution which the people have not seen fit to do. So instead, some seek to subvert it through the judiciary legislating from the bench. Judges are suppossed to interpret the constitution in light of ORGINAL INTENT. What the founders had in mind. What THEY wanted. Instead some choose to interpret in in light of what THEY want. Yup, I have to hand it to you JB you nailed it.<br /><br />Please point out the Supreme court decision where "under God" was found unconstritutional. <br /><br />BTW, I heard, but have not details where a recent ruling regarding Nativity scenes on PUBLIC property have been found constitutional.<br /><br />I have to hand it to the left and the secularists. They just keep repeating the same stuff over and over and over and people just begin to assume it is the truth.<br /><br />NEWS FLASH<br /><br />There is no concept of the separation of Church and State in the Constitution<br /><br />The first official document drafted by the founding fathers beings with mentioning the creator, God.<br /><br />In Washington's farewell address to the nation he specifically admonishes the nation that there can be no removal of religion and the concept of God from the government.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Washington's Farewell Address 1796<br /><br />Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. <br />

By the way, for those of you who think this wasn't a Christian nation, th following is also from Wshington's farewell address:<br /><br />

-<br /> Citizens, by birth or choice, of a common country, that country has a right to concentrate your affections. The name of american, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion, manners, habits, and political principles. You have in a common cause fought and triumphed together; the Independence and Liberty you possess are the work of joint counsels, and joint efforts, of common dangers, sufferings, and successes.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Plywoody,<br /><br />I don't know who got to you, but they sure did a good job. But for the record maybe some clairification might help you rethink the group think you have been indoctinated with.<br /><br />Left thinking person: All men are created equal! Unless you are a minority, gay/lesbian, handicapped, female, bald, dependant on drugs, short, tall, or poor. In which case you are afforded, affirmative action programs, equal access laws, set asides, tax breaks, hate crime legislation, and limitation on free speech.<br /><br />Under god in the pledge is intrusive and unconstitutional! But having Al Gore pass a tax without the approval of congress is enlightened. Forcing those who do to pay for those who don't, the american way.<br /><br />Taxing me on the money I make, then taxing me on what I buy, then taxing me on what I own. Thats fair.<br /><br />The difference between left and right can't be summed up in the usual and misleading sound bite put forth by those with a private agenda to alienate anybody with sense of right and wrong. I could really care less what anyone does in their bedroom. No wait if they are doing it with my 5 year old son, Yeh, I do care.<br /><br />An easier way of looking at right and left is the right believes that the private sector is better equipt to solve most problems and the left feels government is better suited. It is infrequent that moral issues define ones politics (mainstream).<br /><br />You think that what you do in your bedroom defines freedom. This is emotional thinking and if someone cares, who??. I am interested in hearing how the government is in your private beliefs and thoughts and how they are informing you that it is unacceptable. What isn't acceptable? Homosexuality, hell it's a protected class. Devil worship? They have wicken priests paid for by the government to administer to inmates. Self mutilation. Have you checked out the high school yearbooks they look like human pin cushins. What can't you do here? <br /><br />I would say that what someone is doing in my wallet defines mine. This is rational thinking.<br /><br />Just something to think about.