One nation under God......Maybe?

[mikeandronda]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Ok pointer94 thats a great Idea about asking for help here. I am gonna put it on a seprate post so not to interfere with one and it will be called " youth group needs help" Thanx for the idea. JB and Mods please review so I am not going against Iboats policy (I have nothing but respect for Iboats policys here)

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Here's an idea on how to settle this issue...<br /><br />Why not put it in a General Election?<br /><br />Why not have a way for the people of this country to decide this issue?<br /><br />The only way for the voice of the American people to be heard, is by voting on this issue!<br /><br />This way, when the majority have spoken, the issue should be considered closed!<br /><br />Why should the people have to rely on the elected officials, who are 99% of the problem, with their hellbent ideology to destroy this nation.<br /><br />Just an idea.<br /><br />Any other suggestions?<br /><br />Kenny

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Yep Kenny that just might fix things but if the little people were able to vote on things like this it would put a whole lot of polotitions out of bussiness, so it probably never will happen.

 

[LadyFish]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

A recent letter to a newspaper.....<br /><br />"Perhaps we should do away with the pledge of allegiance altogether. For all those atheists out there, I'm sure you would be more than happy. Why fight to get rid of just one phrase when you can destroy the whole thing in one fatal swoop?<br /><br />I suggest an alliance between Christians and atheists. While the overwhelming minority argues against "one nation under God" the (normally deaf and mute) majority can argue against "I pledge allegiance to the flag..." Pledging ones loyalty to a flag (a piece of cloth) and a country (a section of land) sounds quite a bit like idolatry to me.<br /><br />(For those unfamiliar with Judeo-Christian values, that is expressly prohibited according to the 1st Commandment. Of course, now that we are removing those from our justice system, who cares?)<br /><br />With the combined front of Christians and atheists we can take out 3/4 of the pledge. The only thing left is "one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."<br /><br />Liberty is somewhat questionable. For patriotic (and undeniably crazy) people who might actually want to profess their allegiance to their country...too bad. The minority has spoken.<br /><br />Justice? Justice only exists when you have laws on which to base it. It was a long process, but we should congratulate ourselves. Morality has finally been canned along with The Ten Commandments (not to mention every other law that was based on them).<br /><br />Indivisibility has never existed, even at the very birth of our nation, and only when pigs sprout wings and fly will all people of any one country be entirely united. (And, no, it doesn't count if the pig has been genetically engineered.)<br /><br />That leaves us with "one nation." Not much of a pledge, but with only two words, there should be no controversy regarding semantics. It will also remove the purpose of the original pledge: reaffirmation of loyalty and pride in America. But I suppose that has been and optional requirement of citizenship since liberalism, aka. Socialism (oh, I'm sorry, is that politically incorrect?) has been incorporated into the idea of freedom."<br /><br />Written by Tiffany, 18 years old.<br /><br />I guess its all how you're raised.

 

[12Footer]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

I wasn't the first one to bring up Bill of rights, you did. And since you did, let me try to clear-up any confusion you may have here.<br />My problem is the attempts to subvert America thru it's own Judicial system,And what it has to do with the words, "in God we Trust" on currency, or "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegience to the flag of my country. See, I have zero problems with a group of plywoodies gathering up a ballot and the American people voting God out of thier lives. But there just are not enough. So what the Plywoodies did was take it to a band of liberal, black trenchcoat-robed thugs with a gavel , and try to get them to make it a "law". I have news for the Plywoodies out there. This is a democracy. We do things a bit differently most of the time...Oh sure, they slip one by us when we are not paying any attention..But now, the're under a microscope of sorts. Americans are waking up, seeing the injustice, and underhanded tactics,and rebelling against the atheist minority. If they become a majority, and change things legally, there would be no need for this contraversy, would there? The fact that they would even try the courts again,in this time of scrutiny is political suicide in my opinion, to the liberals. But then, I would like to see them defeated utterly anyhow, so let them try. Then stand back for the mobs of protestors (non-liberal,peta bunch this time), storm the capital!<br />Just leave my pledfge alone, change it by a mandate or leave it alone. or leave and make your own .... <br />very <br />And JB, I can't answer that one. I have no clue why it's a 'left-right' issue , but it is, for some reason. It aint rocket science to figure out why...Or is it? Beats me, but I have heart-fealt convictions. You'll note that those who "offended" or "don't feel it represents them", seem to liberally aligned.<br />Those who are up in arms about this latest assault,seem to be conservatives. I can only thoeorise as to why this is so. It would be interesting to see a thread debating this particular angle of the "God/ no God in America" issue, as it surely exists. All I have are theories.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Right on 12 Footer!

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

YES 12Footer, YES !!!!!!!!<br /><br />Couldn't agree more!<br /><br />Kenny

 

[jim phillips]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

(quote )<br /><br />"Perhaps we should do away with the pledge of allegiance altogether. For all those atheists out there, I'm sure you would be more than happy. Why fight to get rid of just one phrase when you can destroy the whole thing in one fatal swoop?<br /><br />Just because I am a atheist does not mean that I want, or would be happy with changing a piece of history. You see it is a big Misconception that we don't like any thing or any body that has to do with God, I believe in live and let live and what ever you believe and works for you is great I would not change your thoughts or beliefs for any thing in the world. We are not satanic heathens we are just people that chose not to believe. You would be hard pressed to find an atheist that would bash a believer like we get bashed by the love thy neighbor crowed.

 

[plywoody]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

This issue has nothing to do with democracy, or majority rule. It has to do with the bill of rights, and the constitution.<br /><br />Protecting the rights of the individual while at the same time building a nation where majority rules was a difficult task when the framers tackled it, as it is obviously a difficult task to maintain as we can see from this thread.<br /><br />It is always easy for the majority to stomp on the rights of the minority. It is difficult to fight for the rights of people you may not agree with, but it is what freedom is all about.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Plywoody,<br /><br />With this I totally agree. I think as we get more specific we may disagree, but in this most recent post I agree with you totally.

 

[JGREGORY]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Right on 12footer!!<br /><br />And<br /><br />(choke, gasp) I agree in principle with Plywoody's most recent post! ( I think I'll go shoot myself now! )

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Ok I have done a search on the bill of rights and here is the only thing I found in it about religion.<br />Amendment I<br />Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. <br /><br />To me, and I could be wrong. All this is saying is goverment can not force you to be any religion or stop you from being any of them either. Please correct me if Im wrong. IMHO if this is a subject that needs debating its my guess its the people who are wanting it changed are trying to find any loophole possable to have there adjenda win. Why has it taken 200+ years to see this for them. My guess is as America gets more and more decadent and corrupt, They(the left, the libs.) are trying to slowly but surely ensure their survival by looking anywere they may get support.<br /><br />Could somebody please tell me were it says the seperation from church and state thing.

 

[pjc]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Some very fine (some not so?) debate here---<br />I do believe this iiue in the courts was initiated by Michael A. Newdow. This guy is an athiest (he claims) and father to a young daughter. Newdow claims his daughter should decide for herself religious belief. <br />Aparently Mrs Newdows (I believe that the Newdows are either seperated or devorced) position on the pledge is it's fine as it is-she believes in God.<br /><br />---my take on Mr Newdow--he is simply trying to stick it to his wife using the courts and his daughter as a tool. At the same time the liberal anti religion croud jumped an board using Newdows case as a tool to accomplish their agenda.<br /><br />--what pisses me off is that our courts are tied up arguing this silly nonsence-- --<br />--AND--imho--this Noodle--ah-Mr Newdow is using his daughter as a tool to *** with his wife--what kinda so called man and father is this cat???? <br /><br />laterz

 

[12Footer]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Plywoody posted; "It is always easy for the majority to stomp on the rights of the minority. It is difficult to fight for the rights of people you may not agree with, but it is what freedom is all about."<br /><br />But it is what freedom is all about... Absa-cotton-pickin-lutely!<br />As for the stomping, it is the way of democracy that majority rules. As a conservative, having my rights trampled upon by the majority for YEARS, I can certainly relate! If it were a dictatorship, perhaps, I'd have been done-away with back in the late 70's durring King Carter's Admin. but thankfully, it's a democracy. A democracy is far from perfection, but it dang-sure outlasted USSR, didn't it? But it does have it's drawbacks, like politically-motivated rulings from a supposed unbiased bench!! The appointments were blocked by politically-motivated henchmen for those allready cloaked in black...How apropriate!<br />But the good side of a democracy is, the tide IS turning. Public opinion is strongly polarized because of past abuses of such ruling power. This cannot, and will not stand in a democracy for long. your 9th Circus,trenchcoat mafia is going down! It may not be tomorrow, but the public is very angry, majority-wise. too bad/so sad. It's why America, under it's present form of government has lasted 227years! and if we don't totally destroy the constituion with countless ammendments, it will outlast all other forms of government thrugout human recorded history.<br />It allready has a better than average track-record.<br />This is one of those posts where my sig (where I quote Father D.E. O'brien) should be read, by all who vread the post. The good Father said it with brevity (the soul of whit).

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Ok Let me re-word my Question above.....Could somebody please show me any evidence that it says in the Bill of rights or constition that it is unlawful to have "IN GOD WE TRUST or ONE NATION UNDER GOD" on our money or in our pledge and for that matter the 10 comndments on public property. Im not saying its not there I have just not been able to find it. Maybe if some of the people who support removeing these things could post some proof that there is something in our laws that says this, this could be a much better debate, otherwise all I see is people wasting our courts and our time even arguing for the removal.

 

[snapperbait]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

It's pity!... For a long time I felt that I had respect for the reigous types, however, after following this troll, I realized my respect is actually pity... <br /><br />So, keep your "under god" in the pledge... I don't give a rats a$$... Don't offend me one bit anyway... If the weak minded need their "under god crutch" in the pledge to help them in their daily lives, if it makes them feel all warm and squishey inside when they recite the pledge, whatever, then so be it... B.F.D. <br /><br />This "under god" issue is so irrelavant that it's made me dumber for having read all this junk posted in this troll.... <br /><br />Pitiful........ Troll on, Ya'll!

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Snapperbait whats a pity is how you re-act to people having a belief system they are willing to go to bat for. No offence but I pity those of you that go through life thinking this is as good as it gets and hey I have becoming worm food( as an above post states) to look forward too when I die. Hey I have not tried to convert anybody (I would love to some people at least think about it) nor did anybody else. Dude ya need to understand its not about the words its about little by little one type of person slowly eating away at another type of people's beliefs. So anyways save your pity for somebody who needs it.As for getting stupider by reading this I believe that could of happened without this post, Normally your posts are at least thought out this one is just a off handed attack at "religous types" as for you stateing that you could give a rats a$$ your obvious anger shows that you do. If its not an issue with you I guess you wouldnt have read the whole thread.

 

[jimchere]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Ahhhhh...wormfood. All that et.al. Nothing higher, nothing. We know it all. Heck the big bang theory figured it all out, right?<br />Ughhh, the scientificos (of which I may be considered one) just can't seem to figure one thing out: If it all developed through "Darwinism" or some other evolutionary theory, just where did that first critter come from? Where did the first molecule to make anything come from? Perhaps something, some entity started this shenanigan. You don't get something from nothing. You can't make a tadpole, or a bacteria, or whatever into a human unless you had something that created the evolutionary "before" of that. How far forward will you reel the "before" aka rewind button until you get at the point: It started somewhere. An entity created that first piece. Perhaps you would like to argue about black holes and...oops, it still ends up in the same place.

 

[Columbia]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

The Pledge of Allegiance is only about a hundred years old. It's not part of the Constitution for crying out loud. The "Under God" was inserted in 1954 as a response by Congress to the 'Godless Communists' and nothing else. In point of fact, this country was founded at least in part by folks seeking the freedom to practice their religion as it was around the time of the reformation and a struggle was going on between Catholics, Lutherans, Calvinists, etc. State religions were the norm. Why should we then revoke the freedom of religion by making America a one religion country sanctioning a state religion, Christianity? Remove it and be done with it.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

So, keep your "under god" in the pledge... I don't give a rats a$$... Don't offend me one bit anyway... If the weak minded need their "under god crutch" in the pledge to help them in their daily lives, if it makes them feel all warm and squishey inside when they recite the pledge, whatever, then so be it... B.F.D. <br />

Deespite the tone, this is the mature response. We are a tolerant people. So tolerate it. A recent national poll showed 92% of Americans belive in "God" so the 8% that don't should just be mature and tolerant and accept it. Do something constuctive with your time and money and stop trying to create problems where they don't exist.<br /><br />Remember, if the 92% decide to be intollerant you are in trouble and no judge or piece of paper will help you. Ultimately we all realy on the good will and tolerance of each other.