One nation under God......Maybe?

JB · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

I think what we are seeing here is a "had enough of that!" from non-Christians and even so-called athiests being required, under threat of ridicule and ostracization, to honor ceremonies of religions they don't believe in. Any group that is in a dominant majority will strengthen their power over minorities (gender, racial, religious, ethnic or intellectual) by establishing laws and practices that honor their power at the expense of minorities. Our Constitution sought, and still seeks to prevent that. Over the past 150 years those unconstitutional practices and laws have been overturned, bit by bit, to free African Americans, women, and other minority groups from the benevolent domination of european, adult (over 21) male landowners, the only "men" considered equal in original interpretations of the Declaration of Independence and Constitution. Now it is the turn of religious (and non-religious) minorities to achieve equal legal status with the clearly dominant Christian majority. Men felt under attack when women demanded the vote, Whites felt under attack when African Americans demanded integration, now Christians feel under attack when non-Christians demand an end to Christian-serving laws and practices. The beat goes on.

ob · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Hope for what? That I will someday be talked into believing what you think That's not what I meant.But,since you went there,would that be so bad.What have you got to lose?You're not getting out of this place alive.It's a little thing called faith. 

I don't believe in new math but I still teach my kids how to do it. I don't have to believe in something to read it and explain it to someone. You don't believe in new math?What's to not believe.Brain exercise.Noone is trying to convert you or demean your thought precess.It's all in how you percieve it.Consider for one moment that someone may be trying to enlighten you and share some of their experiences on this planet that have enlightened them. And I haven't forgtten good ol' plywoody.You speak as though this word God suddenly appeared in the Pledge and are trying to get what you say our Constituition protects us from removed.Protection from what?A word? Seems to me the only ones playing God here and imposing their beliefs are the non believers.

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mikeandronda · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

JB im not talking about not giving everybody the same rights but what about keeping the ones I allready have........I have the right to be Christian just like you have the right not to be.What is scary to me is when the higher ups are making laws based on their beliefs and not what is good for everybody.......for the 4 or 5th time in this post I must restate what is happening in my second link is the left wing librals are tring to take MY PEOPLES constitutional rights away and somehow that subject keeps being overlooked.......If it was a Gay Bath house in San Fransico being attacked by conservitives many of you guys would be like its their right to whatever they want as long as it doesnt hurt us, but because its a Christain orginization you cant even see that this is a travisty. Hmmmmmm I guess only those who you agree with should have all the rights we as americans are promised...Whos being oppressive and preduduce here....the Christian aid workers who allow anybody into there shelter so that they may help the down and out or is the Liberals who want them to take down their symbols? I challange anybody to try this with any other religious orginization in this country and try and get away with it.Man even peoples sexual preferences are protected as well as all religious beliefs ....EXCEPT CHRISTIANITY. Thats why im upset about this. Call it what you will JB but the fact remains its not about giving everybody the same rights its about taking away the ones that the many want that may offend the few.

oddjob · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Let the morons take it out. I still know and will repeat the uncut version ever so loudly from here on. And I'm no Christian. But I will pretend to be. Cause I know its buggin ya libs.

Bassy · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Bill of Rights Amendment 1- "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise therof." Meaning- 1st- Congress cannot make any faith the official religion of the United States. nor can it make laws that favor any religion over another. IMO I don't see they've done this. "Pledge of Allegiance" is not a law. It's a pledge. 2nd- People can believe, or not believe, whatever they want about religion, without fear of punishment. IMO that right hasn't been threatened. My 8th graders are studying U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights and I strive too get them to appreciate the rights laid out in our Constitution for them, because we are so fortunate to have these rights protected.

Ralph 123 · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Hum. Based on the last few posts my proposed new pledge is right on... bay5884, you say

I was shown by my parents to accept everyone and their beleifs

just after you bash jehovah's whitnesses. See a little inconsistency there? If you are tolerant and accepting why do you have a problem with "under God" in the pledge? Part of JW's beliefs and most Christians is evangelizing, you know, just like what Jesus charged the apostles to do. JB can you give us an example of how you have been harmed by traditions that date back 200+ years. How are you harmed by the pledge? Would you at least agree that this nation is the most religiously tolerant in history? Seems to me the intollerance is coming from the secularists who can't stand to see or hear anything that goes against their belifs, not the other way around. If the Christiany majority in this country were intollerant there wouldn't be a single non-christian living here.

knobby · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Are we voting again? I'm voting for keeping it like it is. God and me get along just fine, it's people I have the most trouble getting along with.

Tacklewasher · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

I find that I agree with JB on this one. Your country (and mine) have decided on a separation of Church and State. God (whichever one you believe in) is a personal choice and part of the "Church" portion. Having the "under God" is blurring that line and, I think, should be removed. In Canada we've seen similar changes to our anthem. I think the changes are for the better in that the politics becomes less confused, become more about what is best for the country and less exclusionary. Now the fact that this has been part of the pledge for 200 years is not really relevant. Either it is right or wrong. Slavery was never right despite the fact that it occurred in Biblical times and the Bible never speaks out against it. So decide for today whether it is appropriate or not (and I think not). This is one of the few places where I have a politically correct opinion. And about the Wiccan raising a fuss over the shelter? The only issue I have is that the shelter is partially funded with public funds. That should be the only debate, whether the public funds are used to support a religious shelter. If the shelter is funded privately, they should not come under the microscope. If they want public funding, they should be prepared to remove the religious items. They can't have it both ways (in my opinion).

jim phillips · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

(quote ) Religion is a touchy subject, and frankly, if you are an athiest, I don't have much in common with you, therefore, I really don't have much to say to you. I would assume that you like to hunt, fish,enjoy the out doors, maybe football,cook outs days at the beach But I guss we have nothing in common to talk about

KennyKenCan · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

If "Under God" is removed from the pledge, than Thanksgiving and Christmas must be removed from the national holiday list!

These holidays are directly associated to God! That will mean no more holiday sales at K-Mart, Macy*s, Penney's, Sears and Walmart! Boy would that destroy the economy! Well, then there wouldn't be a country left, and we would all be under some dictators rule without the ability to have a forum like iboats, or any other, where free speech abounds, instead, we all would be put up against a wall and shot! The "domino effect" that this is going to cause is going to be irreversable! IMHO! I am beginning to feel soory for the younger generation, that they will never be able to appreciate or know, what Freedom truely is! I'll even bet that they would all, blame it on George W. Bush, instead of those responsible, us, as in you and me, the citizens of the United States! Kenny

Ralph 123 · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

This is a huge misconception about the separation of Church and State. The only place that even appears is in a letter by Jefferson - just one of the founding fathers. Go and read Washington's farewell address to the Nation and then come back and talk about the concept of separation. Kenny, I think in Florida Xmas has been banned from being used in the schools as a holiday. They changed the name.

Carphunter · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Luckyjim, are there certain beliefs that you have, that you feel strongly about? As I stated before, I don't care if someone loves football, basketball, fishing, or whatever, .......if I found out that said person was an anti-hunter, for example, then the conversation is over. Why? Because I feel that strongly about my beliefs. And i'm not afraid to say it. I like everything you said except walks on the beach. To feminine for me. Rosie O' Donnell is a perfect example. She has shown her rear-end so many times, that even if she did have something worthwhile to say, I don't want to hear it. Why? Because our beliefs on certain issues are so much different that I do not choose to hear anything she has to say from this point forward about anything. Strap her to a rocket and send her into space for all I care. I have noticed that people say they are an athiest as if they expect special treatment. I do not advertise my religion, nor do I push it on anyone. If you want to be an athiest, fine, but don't tell me about it, and i'll do the same. To me, it would be a very sad existence on this planet to think that everything ends after death. I practice my religion based as much on hope as faith. If anyone thinks that is wrong, then i'm sorry, but thats what I believe. Kenny, you are correct. What is this country coming to. Sad, very sad indeed.

JB · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Coupla points. None here knows my religion, and you wont. It is irrelevant and private. My arguments are about freedom and liberty, which are sacred words to me. The pledge to the flag isn't that old, but the "under God" part is only about 50 years old. It was inserted by act of congress in the 1950s. That means it is a law, implying a State religion. How have I been hurt? Doesn't matter. For years non-Christian children have been embarrassed and ridiculed when REQUIRED to recite Christian prayers and to pledge "under God" in school. Just that one is enough.

jim phillips · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

I do not ask or expect any special treatment what I do expect is to be treated like every one else. And that does not always happen. I worked with an officer the other night and just in conversation she asked what church I went to when I told her that I don't believe in God or go to church she left her post and went to the captain and told him that she could not work with me because I was a heathen. She was sent back to our post but stayed as far away from me as she could get and would not talk to me the rest of the night. If I were to act that way toward any one what do you think would be said? I do not try to change the way people think, If it works for you that's great But please don't try to convert me or put me down for what I believe. When I am around people that want to pray before meals or at a foot ball game I will sit or stand quietly out of respect for there rights to be and say what they want.

JGREGORY · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

New School Prayer Now I sit me down in school Where praying is against the rule For this great nation under God Finds mention of Him very odd. If Scripture now the class recites, It violates the Bill of Rights. And anytime my head I bow Becomes a Federal matter now. Our hair can be purple, orange or green, That's no offense; it's a freedom scene. The law is specific, the law is precise. Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice. For praying in a public hall Might offend someone with no faith at all. In silence alone we must meditate, God's name is prohibited by the state. We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks, And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks. They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible. To quote the Good Book makes me liable. We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen, And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King. It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong, We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong. We can get our ******s and birth controls, Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles. But the Ten Commandments are not allowed, No word of God must reach this crowd. It's scary here I must confess, When chaos reigns the school's a mess. So, Lord, this silent plea I make: Should I be shot; My soul please take! Amen If you aren't ashamed to do this, please pass this on. Jesus said, " if you are ashamed of me," I will be ashamed of you before my Father." Not ashamed. Passing this on . .

bay5884 · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Carphunter..right on with Rosie..send her off! And also, right on with advertising your religion. That's definitly not my intention here...I've probably only mentioned my no religion to a handful of people ever before now. The only reason I classify myself as that is because I don't fit in any others. I just laugh at the cars with all the bumper stickers and emblems on them, just like I do a ford sticker...their right to have em on there, my right to laugh at them. Guess they're trying to "evangelize" (dict.-to convert others to one's own religion)

. But hey, got just as much right to push their product as I do with a Jeep sticker or pepsi does soda... As far as life after death, well of course I hope there's something there, just haven't seen any proof that there is and don't beleive there is. Therefore, I live every day like it's my last and it's a great existence.

I guess I just don't care about religion...not my hobby and seems to create too much controversy. Now lets all have a beer (or whatever you like best

) , eat a bottle of "chill pills", and go boating! (something we all have in common!!)

DJ · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

I pledge allegiance to the flags of the united world of communities. And to the many republics for which are oppressed. Freedom and justice for none. Many nations, under the ACLU. Completely divisable with free health care and no morality for all!

jim phillips · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

Great post Jgregory

KennyKenCan · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

A thought about Atheism: In the hayday of Ellis Island in NYC, the portal of the world here in the U.S., required a religion be recorded in order to gain entrance to the U.S. If you listed yourself as an Atheist, you were promptly put back on the boat and returned to the country of your origin and listed as an undesirable! When did Atheism become a religion? And if Atheism is not a religion, then are they not still considered an undesirable ? Just a thought. Kenny

DJ · Oct 15, 2003

Re: One nation under God......Maybe?

One nation under God......Maybe?

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