New Bin Laden Tape

[12Footer]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Ah the WWJD question......hmmmm he wouldnt do what we are, no as a matter of fact if he was in charge of the situation it would suely be different...........One of the hardest questions I have had to ask myself is how to turn the other cheek.....well I fall short of the glory of God everyday.When Christ is running things it will be a perfect world. As for you having no side cuz both are wrong.....you seem to be a smart edjecated man so I find it hard to swallow that you cant pick a side or come up with your own side. It seems to me its a defense mechinism so to avoid attacks on you.

 

[Mrs Soulwinner]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

hey 12footer.....i just say AMEN to that all the way around!<br /><br />Get between me and mine and there's gonna be some hurtin' goin' on!!<br /><br />Remember, I own guns! and I aint skeerd!!

 

[mrbscott19]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Originally posted by mikeandronda:<br /> Ah the WWJD question......hmmmm he wouldnt do what we are, no as a matter of fact if he was in charge of the situation it would suely be different...........One of the hardest questions I have had to ask myself is how to turn the other cheek.....well I fall short of the glory of God everyday.When Christ is running things it will be a perfect world. As for you having no side cuz both are wrong.....you seem to be a smart edjecated man so I find it hard to swallow that you cant pick a side or come up with your own side. It seems to me its a defense mechinism so to avoid attacks on you.

First of all, thank you for the compliment, if it really was one(can't be sure since educated was spelled wrong). I can't pick a side because as an American I can't possibly side with any of our enemies, but as a human being I can see why we are targeted the way we are. Most Americans seem to forget that just like us, other people, even our enemies, are human. We all love, we all hate, and we all desire vengeance. The same thing that drives us drives them. We are slowly, but surely destroying the Middle Eastern way of life, a way of life they've known for thousands of years. It might be a good thing, it might not, but who are we to decide?

 

[mrbscott19]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Originally posted by 12Footer:<br />

Now imagine that same image over Iraq with over 30 times as many people.....kinda puts things into perspective. We've killed over 30 times as many people that were from a country that didn't even attack us, yet they're the terrorists.

 

[12Footer]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

The same image could be of Pearl Harbor or Hiroshima, Scott.---London/Dresdin... I do see your point, but this war was not asked for by anyone in our country, much less those poor souls in the WTC on 9/11.<br />I see your point, yet you fail to see mine. They are indescrimate in thier killing. Our commercial aircraft packed with innocent souls(for the most part),flown into buildings copntaining a simular cross-section of humanity---not yet part of thier "dissagreements with the United States", killed in ways we cannot fathom! Add to this, thier hideous habit of beheading living people who just wanted to do a job for at minimum, money, and at thier most ideolgical, helping to rebuild--and the ones who have lived there for 30+years, helping those in need, when thier government would not.<br />The hatered for a sitting president manifests itself in a rage for one's own country. That's the twisted vision I gain of your perspective by reading your posts, Scott. I don't know if this perspective reflects your soul, and I shouldn't care. But who's side in this global conflict do you uphold to diss America? Or, at least, to diss Bush or his cabinet? Am I wrong in assuming that in your view, Bush is an evil warmonger? That Sadamn is a misunderstood leader who,along with his sons, was caught in the crosshairs of a vengfull son of Bush#41?<br />Am I to understand that it is ok to murder thousands in the name of Ala, but not in the name of freedom?<br />Oh, sure..We Americans are a "decident" lot. We allow for South Park and Muslim Mosques. We allow for gay unions, and open protests of our own government.<br />But if you look across this planet, there are only a handfull of places left that still let women vote. It's really not as evil as it's made-out to be by Keery, Fonda, Springstien, and Chere. Of course, they have probably never seen the seedier part of the Philipines when they visted there. They stayed at the Hyatt on the Pacific.

 

[Fly Rod]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

mrbscott!!!! Something U&I agree on 3000 American lives does not equal a 100,000 of them towel heads!!! We need to kill at least a million or better and it still won't equal one "AMERICAN!!!"

 

[deputydawg]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Look back even farther, we trained and armed these people who are noe our enemies. Check around the Reagan years and before. This is not a new thing as everyone is making it. It has been brewing for years. Many countries hate the USA for what we are. Most of them hide this feeling because they also need or fear us. Have an honest conversation with people from all other countries, most don't like us.<br />For those who say we should back down or negotiate, how many backed down from Hitler? Where would the world be now if we hadn't helped then? <br />Look at all of the attacks we have ignored, the world trade center parking garage bombing, the USS Cole, the Kenya Embassy, I don't know all of the years but events. There have been others. We have not retaliated against these acts. After the USS Cole Clinton launched a few missles but that was it.<br />I understand the rules of engagement, but so do they. We follow them, they do not. They know they can hide in a religious or holy site, we try to keep from damagaing these sites. Just like WWI and WWII, we placed military guards on Holy or Historical sites to protect them from looting and damage. We try to protect innocent civilians from harm, they do not. <br />When this nation won it's independance it was not because we had a stronger army, or larger forces, it was because we introduced a new way of fighting. We struck and ran and never gave up until it was over. Now they are doing the same to us. Strike then run and hide. <br />Untiul the USA and the world rethinks their rules of war, this will never be over. <br />When Pearl Harbor was attacked, everyone agreed we needed to go to war. Now the WTC attacks, everyone thinks we should be peacful and negotiate. The military was attacked then, civilians women and children were attacked now. After Pearl Harbor our enemies commanders made a statement that he feared all his victory did was waken a sleeping giant. He was right then, what is the difference with now?<br />We need to put the world on notice that we will take care of our own. Enforce the idea that anyone hiding these enemies will be punished, this includes Pakistan where they are all hiding now. Give notice that we will be in their country searching, then follow through. It will make bad relations with some countries, but they dislike us anyway! It is past time to take care of our own! Anyone that doesn't like it or puts restraints on us can either play or get out of the way. This one is or should be personal!

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Originally posted by mrbscott19:<br /> This was was never about liberating the Iraqi people. It was about the grave threat Saddam posed to the US. Turns out that great threat wasn't there. Liberating Iraq is the administration trying to justify why we went in if there weren't any WMD's instead of GW having to apologize for being wrong to declare war on an imminent threat that wasn't there.

"IF" it's true that there was no threat from Saddam, that could ONLY be because he was constantly pinned down by the US and British forces stationed in the Middle East ever since Gulf War #1... Those forces based in Saudi Arabia...and isn't THAT what OBL claims to be what triggered his war against America ? "Infidels in the Holy Land" ?<br /><br />To appease OBL (perish the thought), the USA and Britain would have needed to withdraw from the Middle East...freeing up Saddam to continue genocide, WMDs, overrunning other countries...you name it, not to mention all the other nightmare scenarios and other hotspots.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

All well and good, deputydawg, 'cepten half this nation is in the grips of the feel good Liberal hogwash that America is eeeeeeevil. I has become the Left's religion to denigrate these United States. Some of them feel that if they are, in essence, self critical, (kinda like going to confession) it will get them into their form of Heaven. The rest of them are just using the denigration as a tool to bring us down to the 'world's' level. Ya can't have a one world government (with it's inherent dictatorial control) if you have a powerful rebel nation.

 

[AK_Chappy]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Originally posted by mrbscott19:<br /> Oh thats right, it's called collateral damage when the US does it. Terrorists have not even come close to killing 100,000 people in their many, many years in the profession. But we kill that many people in under 2 years, 90% innocent, and it's not terrorism.

What??? 90% of them innocent???????? <br /><br />Where did you get this information?<br />If you look at the real information, not the made up stuff, you will see much different numbers. But I guess they don't agree with what you want them to agree with.<br />The suicide bombers killed 37 children while trying to kill our soldiers, who are trying to make it safe for the mothers and children to live without the fear of being raped, murdered, or tortured. But I guess that was part of the count against us wasn't it????<br />I will keep my main thoughts to myself. If you open your eyes and look at ALL the information, you will see that we were justified and no 90% of that 100K were not "innocents"!<br /><br />AK Chappy

 

[mrbscott19]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

That is exact Kiwi. We and Britain are the reason why Saddam didn't have anything. But Bush Sr. also knew the ramifications of removing Saddam from power. Read his book. He knew what would happen. Thats why he didn't do it. And if you haven't noticed, Bush Sr. has never once praised the decisions his son has made in regards to Iraq. That in itself speaks volumes to me.

 

[mrbscott19]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

I'd like to see these real numbers that you're talking about Chappy. Basic math disagrees with you on this one. If 10% of Iraq were all terrorist, then we would be in alot worse shape than we are now. That would make 2.5 million terrorists in Iraq, vs. 150,000 troops? Come on, you should know better than that. My 90% estimate was actually conservative. 90% of the Gitmo detainees were innocent as well, according to the Red Cross, and these were people that were individually sought out and arrested. If 90% of targeted people were not terrorist, I'd have to bet that at least 90% of the casualties are not terrorists as well.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

wow<br /> mrbscot19<br /> I am amazed<br /> really amazed<br /> finally someone that has the desire to actually read and think rather than blather. my family and some close family friends have all lost members in the middle east since the 8o's. the funny thing is we all knew Iraq had no part with the 9-11 thing. we have flip-flopped our policy so much in the middle east that even the Israilies no longer trust us.<br /> I was USN during the first persian gulf war and figgured if I was gonna die in a steel can by gas I may as well read up on the events that lead up to it. if you read about how and why saddam attacked kuwait its funny,almost. we did everything but give him permission to.in the 70's we supported Iran and encouraged the Kurds to attack Iraqi forces with a promise of protection. we have at one time or another supported Iran then Iraq at at one point in the 80's were selling weapons and technology to both at the same time. <br /> and we also sold Iran 70 some odd advanced F-14 fighters ( they are still there) when the Iran-Iraq conflict ended and it was no longer convenient for us we left the Kurds out to dry. so then saddam gassed many of the villages. however we all knew it was going to happen. now we wonder why no one trusts us. they all know and no one on thgis site will ever agree that we trained all the terror leaders we are now fighting. until someone reviews who and how they were trained they will keep this up just as they did against the russians in afghanistan.<br /> I also read most the book that bush senoir wrote and we have now exactly what he feared, a loose coalition that are not natives veying for power, no one is in charge so no one can end anything. bubba did what pappa knew better. we should have attacked suadi-arabia if anywhere or at least waited until decent intel and supply chains could be run.

 

[Rudderman]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Yes I agree that it is the USA foreign policy which enrages much of the rest of the world, and not any particular one person or president.<br />The hatred stems from the policies and the attitudes taken by the government in the past, and I am afraid to say, in the PRESENT. They are acting on your behalf so it makes sense that the government's attitudes and values are the same as it's citizens.<br /> <br />Your government needs to take a reality check....your foreign policy sucks, your arrogance is just plain bad manners, you're not the best country in the world, you can't force "freedom" on everyone, you have no right to interfere in other countries, they should be allowed to sort out their own problems. Ok you got bombed at 9/11. Why not get the guy who did it instead of going on the rampage all over the world, turning this whole thing into a war against muslims....Talk about a bull in a china shop!!

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Originally posted by mrbscott19:<br /> That is exact Kiwi. We and Britain are the reason why Saddam didn't have anything. But Bush Sr. also knew the ramifications of removing Saddam from power. Read his book. He knew what would happen. Thats why he didn't do it. And if you haven't noticed, Bush Sr. has never once praised the decisions his son has made in regards to Iraq. That in itself speaks volumes to me.

mrbscott19, now it sounds like you agree with having the constant ongoing military presence in the Middle East...and that is exactly what is antagonising OBL and his terrorists (or so they say). You can't have it both ways.<br /><br />I'm sure I once read that President Bush Snr said that it would not be right for him (as a past president) to make any public comment about any of the decisions or issues of his son's administration. This was around the time of "W"'s election - before 9/11 and of course the Iraq liberation.

 

[12Footer]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Originally posted by Rudderman:<br /> Yes I agree that it is the USA foreign policy which enrages much of the rest of the world, and not any particular one person or president.<br />The hatred stems from the policies and the attitudes taken by the government in the past, and I am afraid to say, in the PRESENT. They are acting on your behalf so it makes sense that the government's attitudes and values are the same as it's citizens.<br /> <br />Your government needs to take a reality check....your foreign policy sucks, your arrogance is just plain bad manners, you're not the best country in the world, you can't force "freedom" on everyone, you have no right to interfere in other countries, they should be allowed to sort out their own problems. Ok you got bombed at 9/11. Why not get the guy who did it instead of going on the rampage all over the world, turning this whole thing into a war against muslims....Talk about a bull in a china shop!!

I want America to prevail. Call me crazy, but for some reason, it just appeals to me.

 

[mrbscott19]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Originally posted by 62_Kiwi:<br />

Originally posted by mrbscott19:<br /> That is exact Kiwi. We and Britain are the reason why Saddam didn't have anything. But Bush Sr. also knew the ramifications of removing Saddam from power. Read his book. He knew what would happen. Thats why he didn't do it. And if you haven't noticed, Bush Sr. has never once praised the decisions his son has made in regards to Iraq. That in itself speaks volumes to me.

mrbscott19, now it sounds like you agree with having the constant ongoing military presence in the Middle East...and that is exactly what is antagonising OBL and his terrorists (or so they say). You can't have it both ways.<br /><br />I'm sure I once read that President Bush Snr said that it would not be right for him (as a past president) to make any public comment about any of the decisions or issues of his son's administration. This was around the time of "W"'s election - before 9/11 and of course the Iraq liberation.

I've already stated that we can't up and leave the Middle East, it would be worse for the US than any terrorist attack. Think about it. There is alot of Middle Eastern money wrapped up in our economy. As soon as we pulled out, alot of that money would probably disappear from the US economy, not to mention gas would be $10 a gallon. This country would dive into a depression so great it would make the great depression look meager. That is why this war will go on forever. We can't afford to leave the Middle East anymore, we are too dependent on them.

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Originally posted by mrbscott19:<br /><br />I've already stated that we can't up and leave the Middle East, it would be worse for the US than any terrorist attack. Think about it. There is alot of Middle Eastern money wrapped up in our economy. As soon as we pulled out, alot of that money would probably disappear from the US economy, not to mention gas would be $10 a gallon. This country would dive into a depression so great it would make the great depression look meager. That is why this war will go on forever. We can't afford to leave the Middle East anymore, we are too dependent on them.<br />

I agree with what you just said - and not only would it bring down the American economy but also the economies of the entire western world - my own country included.<br /><br />But don't you think Saddam was one of the main causes of instability in the Middle East? Would you really have been better off leaving him in power - with his threats and seething hatred for all things American - without knowing what capabilities he's hiding or gaining...in the middle of a war on terrorism, where your own country has been proven vulnerable to these awful attacks on it's civilian population ?<br /><br />The Middle East is not an easy problem to solve (now there's a kiwi understatement), but at least your current president has been proactive and has made significant progress (and don't forget Libya). Years of talking and diplomacy by others have achieved nothing.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

62_K, thanks for your perspective from the outside lookin in. Now if only all of the American whiners would open their eyes and see what is plain to see. <br /><br />I think too many Americans have it so easy, that anything that appears to be difficult is a baaaaaaad thing. It's a lot easier to blame it all on ourselves, revile the ones who have taken the issue in hand and just get back to playing. And, incidently, that is exactly what the Muslims are playing on right now.