New Bin Laden Tape

[Fly Rod]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Rudderman!! I'm surprised that Ireland isn't blaming the U.S. for u people killing each other,"protestant aganist catholic" Countries that live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones!!!

 

[deputydawg]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

I agree Rudderman, the united states should not push our democratic beliefs on other countries. We should let other countries face their own problems, and also make them find their own way out of these problems. But back to Hitler, what would this world be if we did not get involved? <br />I think the American government should have taken Goerge Washingtons advice and stayed away from entangled alliances. <br />I said that we did cause some of the hatred against us in the middle east, but it goes back to the 1970's or before. We armed and trained this group to attack this other one, then we armed and trained another group to fight that other group. We secretly sold arms to that other group while on the surface helping their enemy. <br />The United States Government has kept us the citizens in the dark about a lot, but they always have. They always will too. There are many reasons for this, mostly for morale and security. <br />A friend of mine just got back from Iraq, Marine Corps. He said he lost 36 men from his unit, and over 90% have been injured in action. Many of these are from homemade bombs from civilians.<br />This is one thing we are never told about. It would make the citizens of this country want to give up and pull out. He also said that Bush is in fact for the draft. The reason is Kerry wanats to leave the same soldiers there. Kerry does not want to rotate men out of the country and rotate fresh troops in. Bush wants to get these men home and send new troops in. But with limited forces he will be forced to raise numbers in the military. <br />He also said that every town or village they take control of is done with ground troops. he said they have NO air support at this time. Presumably because it is considered too rough. It is all down to ground troops now. This is another thing we don't know about in general.<br />Yes, OBL claims he attacked to get US troops off of their soil. OK, so why was it OK years ago to be on his soil while training and arming him? <br />OK, so lets back out, run and hide. What will happen then? Who will attack next, or where will OBL attack next? It is time we take a tough stand. We have been arrogant in the past thinking and believing we are immune to terrorist attacks in the US. We are one of the few countries that has not felt the pain of this kind of attack until 09-11.<br />As arrogant or rude as it may be, we need to stand up and send a message to the world that we are going to take care of our own fight. Anyone that stands in the way or sits on the fence needs to get out of our way. Countries like Pakistan that hide these cowards need to get 1 warning to get out of our way, then we need to take care of business. <br />The timing in Iraq was bad, but I am sure there is more under the surface we do not know. <br />My Marine buddy said that every patrol they go out on they take fire. It is a 50 50 chance of coming back. This tells me it is time to change the rules of engagement and take care of business.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Right on DD time to take the gloves off and show our enemies that what they did was a huge mistake........we are at war, time to start acting like it. No offence rudderman your opinion on my country means nothing to me and for your info America is the best counrty ever, try not to be so jealous. If you guys could quit fighting each other and spend 200 or so years trying to better your selves your country may have a chance to be a great one too.

 

[Carphunter]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Well mrbrbbrrbrbrr scott, a war like this has never been fought before. Our enemies hide in schools, and in holy places. They disguise themselves as civilians. They use women and children as human shields. They have proven to have little regard for ANY human life. They sneak around and place bombs everywhere and they don't care who gets killed. This enemy is a lot more difficult to define than enemies of the past. (Funny how you can't seem to "Pick a side" though). If you believe that the majority of the people that we......(sorry, don't want to include you in we), the United States have killed or taken prisoner are not terrorists, then again, you need to get your head outta the sand. <br />This war on these terrorists will continue for a long time in many different places......................or, we could just sit here, and hope they don't bother us, (Hey, heres a news flash for ya, we were sitting here doing nothing when they decided to fly planes into the WTC, so I guess sitting here doing nothing is not the answer either....right?).<br /><br />Preemptive action is the only logical way to prevent future attacks on our soil, and thats what President Bush has done.<br /><br />Does anybody have any better answers on how to fight this threat.................No, nobody does, so save your breath..<br /><br />Rudderman, the United States IS the best country in the world. I look at a comment from someone from Ireland like this....................I hear something, but I could care less what it is. Kinda like when someone from France talks. Your the last person that should comment on OUR situation.<br /><br />BTW, Have a fine day people.

 

[Rudderman]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Well guys, all I can say is...good luck....cos with those attitudes you are gonna need lots of luck if you are gonna avoid making an enemy out of every country in the world. But then again, you don't care right? you really need more enemies right? thats what you're trying to achieve?<br /><br />The Hitler comment....this is nothing to do with hitler....its not even remotely similar. It also has nothing to do with northern ireland, I don't see any reason to bring that up....what happened in northern ireland affected only ireland and england...no one went off on the rampage like the US is doing.<br /><br />Its not just me, the whole world is trying to tell you what trouble you are headed for..<br /><br /> <br />Statement from the Chinese Vice Premier today<br /><br />The U.S. predicament in Iraq serves as another example that when a country's superiority psychology inflates beyond its real capability, a lot of trouble can be caused<br /><br />But the troubles and disasters the United States has met do not stem from threats by others, but from its own cocksureness and arrogance.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Our passive stance in the past got us or our embassies attacked numerous times.<br /><br />Number of times a terrorist has attacked us since 9/11... ZERO.<br /><br />Case closed.<br /><br />I dont care if every Arab/Muslim country in the world hates us (BTW, they already did).<br /><br />Ken

 

[Carphunter]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

If history has proved one thing, it has proved that most countries are jealous of the good 'ol U.S. All of these middle eastern countries are jealous that we are a wealthy free nation. Their jealousy drives them to fly planes into buildings. They are not worth breathing the same air we breathe.<br /><br />Rudderman, you talk about our attitudes . Tell me, what attitude are we supposed to have? I know nothing about Ireland. I am not jealous of Irish people. <br />All I know is, the USA has continually come to the aid of those in need, and thats what seperates us from a lot of countries that just sit there and say, "As long as they aren't bothering us, then its not our problem". We help those in need. We allow freedom. You can bet your backside that if Ireland was in dire need of help from the U.S., they would receive it. Of course, thats what we do.<br />Now, instead of taking "Pot shots" at my beloved country, why don't you focus on the problems within your own country, i'm sure you guys have problems all your own.<br /><br />Talk about attitudes , I will not assume that everyone in Ireland has your attitude. <br /><br />You can call it arrogance, or whatever you want, I don't really care, but I love the USA, and i'm proud to say it.

 

[oddjob]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Rudderman said<br />

Its not just me, the whole world is trying to tell you what trouble you are headed for..<br /><br /><br />Statement from the Chinese Vice Premier today<br /><br />The U.S. predicament in Iraq serves as another example that when a country's superiority psychology inflates beyond its real capability, a lot of trouble can be caused<br /><br />But the troubles and disasters the United States has met do not stem from threats by others, but from its own cocksureness and arrogance.<br /><br />

China Gov.SuckS, ....thats why they are not the USA. <br /><br />Matter of fact,.. we gots lots of Chinese folks right here in the good ole U!S!A!.<br /> I havn't been to Ireland (not sure I want to go now), but I dont see them as having a population explosion of the Chinese peoples or anyone for that matter. Just a thought.<br /><br />Where are all the fighting Irish at these days?......oh yeah! they immigrated to the USA long ago...helped fight for its freedom and became Americans as well. <br />

 

[Rudderman]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Carphunter, I think a better attitude would be to focus on the real specific threat and its causes (ie OBL and the US political and religious interference in the middle east)<br /><br />Trying to kill every "terrorist" and all the people you don't particularly like in the world is a laughable tactic. By trying to do it, it generates tens of thousands of even more crazy terrorists. If you think otherwise, you're just plain wrong. <br /><br />Of course I am never going to win this argument because if anyone makes a criticism of the USA at all, they are treated the same as "terrorists" by people suffering from hyper-patriotism. All I can do is give my opinion and leave it at that! Admitting when they're wrong is something that I don't think the USA will ever be able to do.<br /><br />Maybe I am wrong about it all, but whatever, I hope it all works out in the end

 

[mrbscott19]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Originally posted by 62_Kiwi:<br />

Originally posted by mrbscott19:<br /><br />I've already stated that we can't up and leave the Middle East, it would be worse for the US than any terrorist attack. Think about it. There is alot of Middle Eastern money wrapped up in our economy. As soon as we pulled out, alot of that money would probably disappear from the US economy, not to mention gas would be $10 a gallon. This country would dive into a depression so great it would make the great depression look meager. That is why this war will go on forever. We can't afford to leave the Middle East anymore, we are too dependent on them.<br />

I agree with what you just said - and not only would it bring down the American economy but also the economies of the entire western world - my own country included.<br /><br />But don't you think Saddam was one of the main causes of instability in the Middle East? Would you really have been better off leaving him in power - with his threats and seething hatred for all things American - without knowing what capabilities he's hiding or gaining...in the middle of a war on terrorism, where your own country has been proven vulnerable to these awful attacks on it's civilian population ?<br /><br />The Middle East is not an easy problem to solve (now there's a kiwi understatement), but at least your current president has been proactive and has made significant progress (and don't forget Libya). Years of talking and diplomacy by others have achieved nothing.

What threats? We were the ones threatening. Disarm or face invasion. Well, they didn't have anything to disarm, but we said they did, so we invaded. No Iraq was not a main reason for Middle Eastern instability. I've only seen the instability in the Middle East get worse since we got rid of Saddam. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is where the largest problem lies. Things were pretty calm in Iraq before we got there due to the fact that he didn't have much of a military after '91. Colin Powell and Condi Rice both stated only months before 9/11 that Iraq had not rebuilt it's weapons programs and they were no threat. They must've forgotten that after 9/11.....

 

[mrbscott19]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Originally posted by Carphunter:<br /> Well mrbrbbrrbrbrr scott, a war like this has never been fought before. Our enemies hide in schools, and in holy places. They disguise themselves as civilians. They use women and children as human shields. They have proven to have little regard for ANY human life. They sneak around and place bombs everywhere and they don't care who gets killed. This enemy is a lot more difficult to define than enemies of the past. (Funny how you can't seem to "Pick a side" though). If you believe that the majority of the people that we......(sorry, don't want to include you in we), the United States have killed or taken prisoner are not terrorists, then again, you need to get your head outta the sand.

So what you're saying is that the over 50,000 of the people killed in Iraq were terrorists? The insurgency is bigger now than ever and the US claims the number is around 12,000. Thats only 12% at its largest if we killed every single one of them, which we obviously haven't. Not even close to a majority. Iraqi doesn't equal terrorist.

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

<br />Colin Powell and Condi Rice both stated only months before 9/11 that Iraq had not rebuilt it's weapons programs and they were no threat. They must've forgotten that after 9/11..... <br />

9/11 did not happen by means of a "weapons program".

 

[NOSLEEP]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Iraq was a growing and immanent threat to the <br />security of your country. Its just laughable<br />that half its country man cant see it or refuse<br />to see it. Every one gets on the wagon a day after<br />9/11 and half the nation jumps off when the<br />going gets tough. If anything is pathetic, that<br />trumps it.<br />A nation so preoccupied with itself to even<br />recognize danger at the door. Thats a sure sign<br />of weakness when you cant even see past your own<br />front door. Your just lucky to have the money to<br />pay for it. The Islamic extremists sure must like<br />you pacifists. You make their goals easier to <br />obtain. <br />Thank God for good men. Your country realy needs<br />them.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Originally posted by NOSLEEP:<br /> Thank God for good men. Your country realy needs them.

At this eleventh hour, NOSLEEP, I remain confident that good American men will prevail. Thanks for your support and understanding.

 

[Carphunter]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Am I going to deny that innocent people have been killed during this conflict.....................no, I am not. Have innocent lives been killed during every conflict......................yes, they have. Do I like it, no. But we are at war with these scumbag terrorists, and during war some innocent people are going to die. To quote Mr. Spock , "The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few".<br /><br />The insurgency is bigger, (as you say it) ,now because of the pacifists like you here in the USA. We can't take our gloves off like we need to do, and fight this fight to its end, because of the repercussions of the liberal community here in America. All you liberals would whine and cry. We could have ended this shortly after it started if it weren't for the huge liberal attitude of many of the so-called Americans in this country.<br /><br />Everytime an American soldier is killed, you guys just look in the mirror if you want someone to blame. <br /><br />Whats your solution mrbscott? ...............whats that, do nothing , .........yep, doing nothing really works. <br /><br />Rudderman, no.....your just plain wrong. We don't sit around and do nothing while terrorists wreck havoc on this planet,.....maybe thats what you guys do, but not us. ............and really, you should wake up everyday and thank the good Lord for the USA, 'cause if not for us, you would probably be speaking another language altogether.<br /><br />.....but thats another story.

 

[spratt]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Carp, I like your attitude!!! I would go a step further and say I beleive that the media should be barred from teh front lines altogether. Let our boys do what they are paid for, and stop sending those left-wing media pans back for all our liberal whiners to moan and cry over. They have no oplace there, as far as I am concerned. War was never meant to be fought in the media and on the homefront. War is where MEN go to try to defend a purpose. No, it doesn't always turn out to be waht we thought it would, or go how it was originally planned...that is why football games have to be constantly re-evaluated after EVERY play!!! Regroup and reconsider the effect of the last play, make a new strategy and go for it. Why should the Generals and Admirals have to worry about what the folks back home are gonna say about this play ort hat play!!!??? <br /><br />I say, if ya wanna fight the war, go over there and do it...not here on the nice warm safe homefront adn in teh media!!!!!!! Everybody has a n opinion of how the soldiers should do things, but as it has been mentioned SO MANY times, opinions are like feet, and many stink!!!

 

[Rudderman]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

.....but thats another story.

Yes you are correct, world war 2 has no similarilities whatsoever to this conflict.<br /><br />I'm sick of hearing the old "don't forget what we did for you in world war 2" line. Thats ancient history. This is 2004 and you're going off the rails. Trying to compare this situation to other past battles is just fudging the real issues.

 

[Carphunter]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

Yep, your right, the real issue is, why in the heck am I having this conversation with someone from Ireland? <br /><br />Live in your safe little land and let the Americans fight the big problems of the world. <br /><br />.........how quickly some forget the sacrifices made on their behalf. I for one will never forget.<br /><br />God bless America and her true allies.<br /><br />Please don't call on us when your country becomes overrun with terrorists.<br /><br />Good luck.<br /><br />Well said spratt.

 

[Rudderman]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

The only reason I care is that the US is enraging the muslims and they are gonna turn against everyone associated with the USA. That includes Ireland because the US warplanes are stopping off in Shannon to refuel on the way to Iraq.<br />If our country does become over run with terrorists, it'll only be because of what the USA has done.<br />Go ahead and fight the big problems of the world...you guys caused most of them!(and averted a few along the way too)

 

[ebbtide176]

Re: New Bin Laden Tape

scott- whatever totals of deaths you want to go by for iraq, i cannot see the logic in your ratios. if you want to oversimplify and say there can not be 90% terrorists or 2.5million terrorists is pretty lame. you surely cannot argue that the ones setting off the IED's aren't killing the majority of "civilians". so to claim we have killed 100,000 is wrong. you need to admit to your faulty argument. i am sure there are deaths considered collateral when we engage. but even from the biased media rpts we can see lots of deaths are due to those in the vicinity of carbombs, errant mortar/ rpg, and IED's. by the fact that you are using the argument that we are responsible for those #'s is a sad point. i guess you believe the insurgents claims when they say they didn't kill the bystanders, or the iraqi hospitals claim that the dead are innocent civilians, and not insurgents...<br /><br />we are now in a war, it is not a PC thing, and we need to get tougher on the enemy and take a hard stance. we can let our military figure out the motives and adjst to the situation. we should be sitting at home cheering them on, and feeling no remorse for the opponents until they ask for forgiveness. you should know as well as any adult that we can't win a fight with a halfazz attitude. <br /><br />rudder- i'm sorry you feel that way. its too bad cause i have irish ancestry, and i have no similar feelings to what you express. i can apologize when i need to, and most americans i think do a great job of being a warm, caring, hospitable and charitable help to others in need. but we should always fight fiercely when we feel threatened. we are now at war. i see no wrong in calling out the opposition to task, and those helping our opposition as well. if that is a superiority complex, you are apparently expecting too much in the way of pacifism also.<br /><br />and stating that "you guys caused most of them (big probs of the world)" is just not worth a reply, bud<br /><br />it seems both of you have similar sentiments. i don't think we need to back off, back down, or play nice until the rest of the world admits that were either accomplices to helping iraq slide by the UN sanctions illegally, or admit they are just nervous that we, as a superpower, are making them uncomfortable, at seeing us flex our military muscle. i think that is the real prob with the other nations. and i guess the american pacifists are upset because we aren't being pacifist now and its scary. <br /><br />and pls stop using the bogus argument that there were no wmd's in iraq and the prez lied. we've had several other threads hashing this out, in case you think it will somehow become a valid point if you keep spouting it.<br /><br />take care, keep posting