"My" run in with the law.

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R Socey

Chief Petty Officer
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Re: "My" run in with the law.

Furthermore Bubba : you did not have a run in with the law - the law is written, and it is supreme. You had a run in with armed thugs who swore to hold up the constitution, but chose to tread on it instead. " power corrupts, absolute power currupts absolutely" No one is above the law, or reproach! I think you should seek redress for your greivance - be a freedom fighter;
that is what this country is suppose to stand for - be my hero!
 

sasto

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Re: "My" run in with the law.

Actually not a bad day after all. Been in worse situations than that. Surely you have had Mother Nature give more trouble then those guys...... Maybe not.

No sweat Bubba, maybe the next time they will recognize you.

Good luck in your decision and whatever you do.;)
 

BF

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Re: "My" run in with the law.

oh, and not meaning to appear to be un-sympathetic, but I agree to outsider's point above... to a 3rd party, it may seem that except for the delay in you leaving, you weren't overly wronged. They asked you to consent to a search which you did not, and no search was done. They did not arrest you, but they did encourage you to wait around and waist your time until you had enough and finally pushed the issue and left. If they had searched without consent, or arrested you either before you left or after, then you've been seriously wronged... BTW, the thought crossed my mind that maybe this wasn't a "safety check" at all.. maybe they had a tip about some drugs etc being delivered and were trying to intercept. (?) this tactic has been used around here for intercepting drugs or illegally imported cigarettes. And yes, even the smugglers sometimes consent to a search because maybe they think they'll just open the door and say "have a good day" and that will be that. I'm no lawyer, but like I implied above, I don't think failing to consent to a random search would be reasonable grounds to grant a search warrant. I expect they'd need more to convince a judge. But if they had a tip about contraband coming through, and found you traveling armed (albeit legally) and with what they might describe as a defensive/suspicious demeanor, maybe that would be enough ??
 

DaNinja

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Re: "My" run in with the law.

Having read the Missouri Terrorist/Militia watchlist memo, it doesn't surprise me.
Bubba, did you have a Gadsen flag displayed anywhere?
 

tswiczko

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Re: "My" run in with the law.

Face it Bubba they, (law enforcement officers state,county or local), don't like private citizens with the ability to carry automatic weapons or any weapon for that matter.

When they got the confirmation it was "none of their business" as to why you can carry it, it pissed them off so they probably decided to agitate you by holding you up as long as they could. Good call getting their supervisor involved although it wasn't to your satisfaction.

I feel it is everyones responsibility to question authority, and when instances like this arise it is our responsibility to make it known publicly so that others can recognize a situation where their rights are possibly in violation and know there is something that can be done about it. I had a run in with authorities this summer and I have noticed an increase in the frequency of being stopped or had a cruiser behind me for an unusually long duration( usually after the second time around the same block they stop following me). I know this is a free country but that doesn't stop them from holding a grudge.
I hope things work out well for you.
 

lckstckn2smknbrls

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Re: "My" run in with the law.

If you are really interested in learning about your rights when confronted by the police check out some of the Second amendment, Open carry, Concealed carry web sites. They did push it to the limit but didn't violate any of your rights. With some knowledge you would have been on your way sooner.
 

mcgyver210

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Oct 18, 2010
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Re: "My" run in with the law.

You were Harassed under the color of authority period because you didn't bow to the Nazis demanding compliance even though they had no legal authority. This is why many citizens now days don't respect or trust government agents of any kind. I carry recording devices for these types of possible confrontations although to this point I haven't had a really bad experience.

The bad part is not all LEOs are Nazis like these were but the bad ones make it bad for the good ones. This confrontation wouldn't even qualify as a Terry Stop IMO & you definitely should join some gun boards & learn more about your rights although LEOs can & will do anything they want without a witness or other proof of their over reaching tactics.
 

MTboatguy

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Re: "My" run in with the law.

Its always amazing when I read of situations like this, it reminds me of a situation that happened to me a few years ago. When I was in the army as a commission officer, my specialty was "urban combat training" in other words, I taught people how to fight in an urban environment and many of my teachings are being used in both Iraq and Afghanistan right now as I write this..

Well anyway, after I was wounded in 1991, during the first Gulf conflict, they tried to drum me out of the military, of course they were not successful and I spent the last 15 years of my career teaching urban combat tactics.., in addition I contracted out with many states to teach their new SERT officers as well as SWAT officers for duty in large cities..

I was on my way home from a weekend of training a medium sized city SWAT team they were setting up, low and behold, I was stopped at a "safety check Point" I had a cased fully automatic M16 in the front seat next to me, no rounds in the weapon, but low and behold it was a fully automatic assault rifle, my personal weapon(I was an O-6 decorated officer in the army and I have an ATF certificate as well) Well I got to take a ride to the local poky, in restraints to boot... Come to find out, they disabled my weapon, and my magazines turned up missing, as well as my vehicle was damaged in the tow to the impound..

Well to say the least, it cost them a heck of a lot of money, as they had to purchase a new training weapon for me(My custom M16 is valued at close to $8,000), replace all of the magazines and have my vehicle fixed, in addition 3 officers received reprimands and demotions when the Chief of Police found out! It was an interesting experience to say the least, I was also accused of being in possession of a forged military decoration..(My Silver Star Hangs from my Mirror!)

Reason for my post, the field cops have become to egotistical, and they need to be taken down a peg or two, I would sure get a hold of those in power in the county you were stopped and make them aware, you would prefer not to pursue the issue, but there needs to be some training done to ensure, the public's rights are not violated and they can actually believe what most of the public says, I would not even mess with the local cop shop, I would not be opposed to contacting the Governor of the state and explain the situation to him and let him talk to these police officers..

I have the utmost respect for those guys in the field, they have a tough job, but there is no reason for this type of situation to happen, you don't have to consent to a search with no probable cause, and you were well within your right to say no, you had not presented any reason to constitute a search..

Let us know how it turns out, and by the way the ACLU is useless in these types of situations, forget the NAZI stuff, just be firm and explain your position and it should not cost you a dime, we are not only obligated but expected to question when things go wrong..

Good luck, stick to your guns and I am sure you will be able to accomplish something that will benefit the public at large..
 

foodfisher

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Re: "My" run in with the law.

All governments (Fed, state, local)are scrambling for money. Follow the money. They probably had instructions to get the money.
 

Brewman61

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Jun 10, 2010
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996
Re: "My" run in with the law.

There are no compelling reasons to waive your rights by consenting to ANY search. You can even state such when you're detained. Remember and use these as necessary-
I will not answer any questions until I consult with my lawyer, and I do not consent to any search. Then clam up, and don't physically resist. If they have a legitimate cause, the'll go to the trouble to get a warrant, and if they're bluffing, they'll realize their bullying won't work on you, and likely send you on your way. Regardless, there are no upsides for us to waive any of our rights, only down sides.
 

BeaufortTJustice

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
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Messages
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Re: "My" run in with the law.

@Bubba,

If, in fact, what happened to you is 100% fact, and I have no reason to doubt your version of events, I feel for you and agree that those officers overstepped their bounds. However,I hope that you and others do not paint all LEO's with the same broad stroke of the brush. I am very familiar with the inner workings of numerous LE agencies in my home state and I can say with a high degree of certainty that this behavior would absolutely NOT be tolerated in this area. In fact, contrary to popular belief, the majority of rank and file LEO's in this area and nationally are advocates of gun ownership rights and strongly believe in the 2nd Amendment. Many LEO's that I know teach concealed carry classes in their off-time, and are active members of organizations such as NRA, GOA, etc. There are about 800,000 police officers that go to work every day and do a great job. Like every other profession, there are bad apples, though.

Good luck in whichever path of redress you choose. I hope your next interaction with LE is more pleasant.

here's a link to one recent survey that supports above information:
http://www.officer.com/interactive/2010/08/10/the-assault-weapons-ban/
 
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RGrew176

Commander
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Re: "My" run in with the law.

I had some fun with some city cops several years ago. We had a group at work that every Friday night after work we would stop at either a bar with food or a restaurant. This one friday night we stop at this bar in Taylor, Michigan. There were 6 of us in the group. The other 5 did have a few beers with their meal. That particular night I was not feeling that well but was hungry so I did not drink any alcohol. I drank cokes with my meal.

We arrived there about 11:15 PM. We got off work at 11 PM. We're eating and drinking and having a good time. Now, I can be a little devious at times so around 1:30 AM I depart the bar and head outside. I see a cop car sitting off the side of the road observing the bar. So, I start staggering from car to car trying my key to open the door. Finally I "find" my car and get inside. I lay the seat back and wait until my group has left the building and headed down the highway.

Five minutes or so after they have departed I raise my seat up and start my car. I sit there a couple more minutes with the car running. I put it in reverse, backup turn around and pull into the roadway. I had not travelled 100 yards when this cop car is behind me with lights flashing. Of course I pull over as soon as I can. The officer walks up to the car, I roll down the window and he askes me for my drivers license and proof of insurance. He walks back to his car and gets in. I am watching him in my rearview mirror and can see him talking on his radio. A few minutes go by and he comes back to my car.

He asks, "have you been drinking tonight". I say, "no officer I have not". So he askes me to get out of the vehicle. I ask him why. He says he thinks I may have been drinking tonight. So, I get out of the vehicle. He does a field sobriety test, the usual stuff. Stand on one leg. Stand on the other leg. He had me do both again with my eyes closed. Then he had me close my eyes again and bring my finger up to and touch my nose both right and left handed. The backwards alphabet thing. Walk a straight line all the usual things they have someone do that they could not do if drunk.

I hear him say, "hmmmmm". Next he brings out the breathalyzer and asks me to blow into the machine. So, I ask him what will he do if I refuse. He says he will place me under arrest and take me to the station where they will get a judge to compel me to blow into the machine and they would take blood for a blood alcohol content test. Now I am thinking just how far do I want to push this. Its now about 2:15 AM. Inside I am LMAO because I have this guy just where I want him.

I decide to blow into the machine. When I blew 0.00 the look on his face was priceless. He did not believe the machine so he asked if I would blow into it again. I said what if I say no. He repeated that I would be arrested and taken to the station where I would be compelled to blow into the machine there. Now, I am not so sure if he could really have done this since I passed every test he gave me but I could tell he was getting agitated. I blow into his machine again and once again I blow a 0.00. Now he gets a confused look on his face. It was funny at the time and even funnier now looking back on it.

He said he saw me stagger out of the bar and approach several vehicles before getting into mine. I said, I know you did. I saw you sitting there and I knew what you were up to. I said, "tonight was my night to be the designated drunk". Man was he PO'd. He told me that if he ever saw me again in Taylor he would write my hindend up. I got into my car and like the OP he followed me for about 5 miles until I left his city and drove into the next.

I did not drive again in Taylor for a year or so. I started driving there again when I traded in that vehicle for a new one he did not know. A good friend of mine in the boat club I belong to told me that if he had arrested me after I passed all the field tests I would have had a case but since he let me go after I blew the 2nd time I did not have a case.

In my younger days I was much bolder than I am now. Getting back to the original post I hope you win your case. Someone in another post said something about the DNR being Nazi's or something like that. That is also true here in Michigan. The DNR guys are for the most part total jerks. Out on the waterways they pull you over for absolutely no reason. I don't fish or hunt so they have no reason to bother me. But that is another story.
 

mcgyver210

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
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Re: "My" run in with the law.

Now that was funny but I have to wonder if he really could have made an arrest stick after you blew once not sure I would have submitted again. Also even though I don't agree with even drinking one sip & driving I thought it was considered a NO NO for a LEO to profile you leaving a bar. I know that is how a foot ballplayer got off a DWI here once.

I could really have some fun since I don;t ever drink Alcohol & anyone that knows me knows this.
 

veritas honus

Lieutenant Commander
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Re: "My" run in with the law.

Bubba, you did the right thing. We, as a nation, have given up way too many of our rights. Rights fought and paid for with the blood and lives of our fellow Americans... Our Soldiers.

Let us never disgrace our fallen...
 

HollaGeo

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Re: "My" run in with the law.

My father's side of the family is heavily involved in law enforcement. One is a U.S. Marshall, one owns a huge security company in Manhattan that trains bomb sniffing dogs, etc. I have respect for cops who BEHAVE and don't abuse their power. My brother wants to be a cop and honestly I don't want him to be. If he's going to be one of those "tough guy" cops who bust balls then I don't support him at all.
 

bruceb58

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Re: "My" run in with the law.

You must have done something to get them mad...anything to do with red light cameras?

:)
 

bigdee

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Re: "My" run in with the law.

Bubba, you did the right thing. We, as a nation, have given up way too many of our rights. Rights fought and paid for with the blood and lives of our fellow Americans... Our Soldiers.

Let us never disgrace our fallen...

I agree with the theory that we are innocent till proven guilty. Traffic checks parallel Nazism. Instead of passively harassing EVERYONE to catch a few bad guys, they should be actively investigating for the bad guys. True, some bad guys may go uncaught but this is the price we have to pay to protect our freedoms.
 

ezmobee

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Re: "My" run in with the law.

I had some fun with some city cops several years ago.

Yeah LEO's are such jerks :rolleyes: While you were wasting this one's time, someone who may have legitimately been drunk got a free pass. You sure showed him.
 

lncoop

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Re: "My" run in with the law.

Yeah LEO's are such jerks :rolleyes: While you were wasting this one's time, someone who may have legitimately been drunk got a free pass. You sure showed him.

Beat me to it. Didn't really find that prank funny. Some cops are jerks. Clearly the ones Bubba encountered qualify. I've been justifiably upset with my fairly large local PD before, but the ones I know (quite a few) are stand up guys who just want to keep us safe. The same can be said of the few I don't know but have encountered in various situations (some pleasant, some less so, depending on whether the admiral was in the car:rolleyes:). I'm not excusing what happened to Bubba, nor am I suggesting that our society doesn't need to be constantly vigilant lest our civil rights be imperiled by the toxic mix of power, incompetence and corruption that is regrettably present at every level of government. However, I think we would all be well served to consider the position of the guy or gal behind the badge before we automatically assume we're being mistreated. I also can't help but think a thoughtful consideration of the true ethos of Nazism might mitigate the extent of flippancy, frequency and misuse to which the term is often subjected.
 

sasto

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Re: "My" run in with the law.

Yeah LEO's are such jerks :rolleyes: While you were wasting this one's time, someone who may have legitimately been drunk got a free pass. You sure showed him.

No worries......that story is older than guy telling it. George Carlin or somebody from his era did that skit long time ago. It is funny to see it "acted out" on stage.....not in real life. Officers aren't stupid to fall for this prank, surely they know about it. This would involve a charge of obstruction of justice.

One thing the poster forgot was his friends drove away from the bar drunk while the officer was busy.
 
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