"My" run in with the law.

[Bubba1235]

I had to go to St. Joe yesterday (90 minute drive) and was driving back on the two lane when I seen a road block with a couple troopers and a couple county cops with a line of cars backed up.

Apparently it was a "spot saftey check" which is fine with me, a lot of death traps out there that should be taken off the roads. I wait my turn, flash the lights all around, honk the horn, flip the wipers, etc. while one cop checks tires. Took maybe 2 minutes and I was good to go....

Not so fast,,, One of the troopers asks me if I have any contraband or weapons in the truck. I answered that I did in fact have a weapon and produced my federal permit to carry. (Issued by the ATF) The trooper inspects the permit and then radios it in to check its validity and it comes back fine after a 15 minute wait on the side of the road. Ok, now I'm good to go...

Again, not so fast,,, The trooper and the county cop ask me to get out of my vehicle (5 above zero) and stand at the side of the road while they search my truck. Huh? Search it why? For contraband and illegal weapons came the reply.

Ummm, no. Any weapon I have is being carried legally (I can carry / use a full automatic weapon if I choose to and it says so on the permit.) and I've already said I have no contraband. Cops don't like hearing this and tell me if I don't give my permission they will call in a dog. I tell them to call anyone they want, they are not searching my truck. They call for the dog and I wait, and wait, and wait...

30 minutes go by and no K-9 unit so I finally tell the trooper they have wasted enough of my time (almost an hour by now) and am not waiting anymore. The trooper said if I try to leave he will arrest me. I get on the cell, call the regional Mo. Trooper HQ in St? Joe and ask that a supervisor be sent to the scene. Another 15 minutes and one arrives and goes and talks to the troopers and then comes to talk to me.

I give him my side of the story and he says, "Well if you would just give permission to search this could be avoided". I got p*ssed and said yeah, if American's had no right at all your job would be much easier, the Nazi SS proved that. He didn't care for it much. In the end it finally came down to me telling the supervisor to either arrest me or I was leaving, he didn't so I put the truck in gear and drove away. One of the troopers followed me for at least 20 miles in hopes I would do something to give him an excuse to pull me over again. I didn't give him one.

Today, well today I am seriously considering filing a suit against the state over this. Look, I am the first person that will say cops have a tough job and terrorist threats are very real, however, that does not mean I am willing to live in a police state with no rights as a way to "protect" me. I am not dumb enough to believe this had anything to do with catching a terrorist, it was nothing but them throwing out nets to see what sort of fish they might come up with. The last I heard, our Constitution doesn't allow that but if no one stands up and demands their rights they will disappear little by little. To my way of thinking, if American's give up their rights and freedoms, the terrorists have already won


Just an FYI: The only weapon I had at the time was my .45 Combat Commander and it was stored in the glove box unloaded.

 

[Philip_G]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

curious as to the specifics of this ATF issued permit.

 

[ehenry]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

Philip_G, In MS, the state can issue a "Carry Concealed" permit but if you want to own a fully automatic weapon you have to get a permit from the ATF.

Bubba, I agree 100% with you. The trooper asked you a question and you answered it honestly and produced the proper credentials. IMHO, the trooper was out of line and should have let you proceed with a "have a nice day."

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

I totally support you..you were illegally held and detained without any probable cause..a clear violation to your legal rights. i think the road checks them selves are illegal..kind of reminds me of communism. I support our police efforts as long as they conduct themselves with in the law and are willing to be subject to the same laws as everyone else. It seems that some of our law enforcement personnel have some kind of god complex..you can have a really bad day if you run into one like that and you are just an average law abiding Joe and do not have serious legal resources. some one has to do something about the rising level of abuse of power in our police force nation wide.

 

[I Fish]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

I agree with you, but just know that a suit like this against the state will be a long and expensive road to travel.

 

[pine island fred]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

BUBBA, am surprised you have not figured this out yet. They are completely in charge and you will assimilate and jump thru whatever hoops they tell you to. I unfortunately have developed the outlook over the years that I am interacting with the STAZI that have pumped up egoes. Supervisors are of no help as they have come up thru the ranks with the same attitude. I really do not like having this attitude but have seen to many of them go to the dark side after only a year. They pull into their own little world. They watch to many of those cop programs and crave that type of excitement. Am not saying they all do but the majority do. Its in their culture.
You are waisting time with any kind of law suit. This does not sound nice but consider that half or better of those guys at the check point will end up divorced and one possibly going off the deep end and eating his own bullet. FRED

 

[mphy98]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

I agree with you, they violated too many rights here. BUT.... is it worth making an example out of them? You will get the wrath of all the trooper and sheriff brethren as it drags on. I say put it behind you (although it gripes me to no end to say it) and move on. You cannot win against our police state. If the government wants to put you away, they will find away. It is not worth it.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

OOF, where to start....I agree with you Bubba, I don't see Probable Cause anywhere in this, possibly since they are stopping all cars on the road for a routine safety check gets them around cause in Missouri. I can see nothing wrong with the routine safety check so no problem there, no problem with asking about illegal contraband then Bubba hands over the CWP and blamo, Houston we have a problem.....problem is its on the officers side, but still not enough cause for a search without permission, Bubbas CWP was verified as was his DL and Background but thats not enough for the cop.

Yeah I think I would sue also, not for myself mind you but for clarification of the law, If the officers were pressing so hard even after a supervisor was called then they have something to back them up within the law, until that is clarified through the courts this will continue, yes it could cost you money but a better option would be to get the ACLU or NRA or even better GOA involved to take this on for you, I would retain a lawyer and get the audio/video of the incident asap before it gets lost as well as any other documentation the LEO's have on the incident. The longer you wait the more likely these things could get disposed of.

I am like you I support Officers of the Law, but they are only to enforce the Law, if the Law is gray then its up to you and me to make it Black and white for them.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

I agree with you, they violated too many rights here. BUT.... is it worth making an example out of them? You will get the wrath of all the trooper and sheriff brethren as it drags on. I say put it behind you (although it gripes me to no end to say it) and move on. You cannot win against our police state. If the government wants to put you away, they will find away. It is not worth it.

Again your missing the point, its not about making an example of the troopers its about clarification of the Law, Its not about embarrasing a trooper its about the civil rights of the citizens of Missouri, I don't know about the Laws in Missouri or Wisconsin. I have a CWP, I own many guns most of which are Black Assault Rifles The Federal Goverment would really like to Ban but I don't live in a police state nor will I ever, I live in a state where I am ok with the Laws regarding guns, if Colorado turns into a police state then I will do my best to challenge the laws in Court or support those that will do so for me or move to another state. I encourage others to do the same.

Your last statement "If the government wants to put you away, they will find away. It is not worth it." Do you really believe this? How can you live like this?

 

[BuzzStPoint]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

They can and will find a way.

Years a go I got pulled over by the county. Not sure why. When the officer came up he asked me for my license and registration. I handed it to him and asked what I did. He only told me to "Sit Tight". After a few minutes he came back and told me to step out of the car. I then asked what I did. he said I was going to fast. I asked how fast is too fast? Pretty sure 50 in the 55 is acceptable.

he then asked if I had any drugs, alcohol or weapons in the car. I replied no. He then asked if I would mind if he could search my car. I told him no he can't. Then fired off "you have no reason to"

He then placed me in handcuffs and said if he doesn't search the car, I'll be arrested for disorderly conduct, car impounded then searched. I argued with him and told him he can't do that. by then another county came and told me the same thing..

Well, I wasted an afternoon, had to pay 100 dollar tow and impound fee, but didn't get disorderly conduct.
Upon leaving, I was told, "If you only complied none of this would have happened".

Without a big pocket book sometimes you can only let it happen.
I don't like either.

 

[Brent S]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

While I agree with you 100% Bubba the only people who will win a law suit are the lawyers. I would send letters to ALL your elected officials in the chain. County officials, State reps and State Senators can influence this.

 

[OldePharte]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

Ya know Bubba, as much as I detest them (for the most part), ya may want to fire off a letter to the ACLU. This is right up their alley.

I could not see ANY probable cause for them to search without a warrant. Heck, if ya watch enough COPS episodes, ya can see how they can routinely make up a probable cause.

On the other hand, my guess is that they were looking for meth dealers.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

Wow. I am speechless.

I would not even guess why or how it was planned by the briefing that the trooper's received before the road block. I will not even guess.

YES, you have the right to complain however, a lawsuit is only a reaction to the frustration. Someone mentioned it above but the only winner's are the lawyer's. I would script up a few letter's and send them out but, first I would call the supervisor and announce the intention of filing a complaint.

Sadly, you will not win. It is your word against the officer's and the State will side with their employees first.

Sorry to hear about the angst......... forget it and move on. It will be better in the long run and prevent you from being labeled a troublemaker.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

I have no reason to dispute what you guys are saying, out of 10 posts 2 are from Wisconsin and both agree that the government will get you if they want you,while its not exactly scientific it is certainly worrisome, but the question remains if you guys really believe that, why do you stay there?

I think Bubba was pretty surprised to experience the actions of the troopers in his state, I would be even more surprised if he felt that others in Missouri would be ok with the troopers actions, so why not nip it in the bud?

Gotta tell you that I agree with the ACLU but....it has its purpose and this is just one of those.

Happy to see the MCLU has already taken this into the courts.

I hear you guys about lawyers getting rich but you guys need to understand that while its not perfect thats the way our system works, if you keep your mouth shut and swallow your pride guess what...nothing happens!

Here's a label for you Bubba,
YOUR MY HERO MAN!!!

 

[JB]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

Any story teller could construct at least a half dozen plots leading to your run in, Bubba. Most of them would have the LEOs conspiring to violate citizen's rights in order to discover probable cause and get a star for the day.

I think it is pretty clear that failing to be intimidated is offensive to some junior LEOs. If they detect what seems to them as defiance they can go into "win at all cost" mode. That can be very dangerous, even when you are acting completely within your rights.

By all means, join in the suit. Too many of our freedoms have been "adjusted" in the name of national security and/or law and order.

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

Keep fighting the good fight, Bubba. We are with ya.

Our state troopers here in Michigan once thought my dad was running guns from NY to northern Michigan, since he had a truck w/ NY plates and about 10 rifles and shotguns.

It took many supervisors and an hour or two on the side of the road before they understood that he was a regular guy that legally owns firearms and hunts...in the process of moving back to Michigan from central NY.

 

[mphy98]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

The reason I believe that if someone from govermnment wants to mess with you is that I have seen it first hand. My brother in law is a retired Police officer and a friend of mine is an ex chief. Now keep in mind the dirt bags that were messed with had it coming for a variety of reasons, but... still not right. If you tick of a high ranking politician, they may sick the IRS on you. Nixon did this and it is well documented. I am sure others have done it as well. The DNR wardens here in WI think they are gods and can do just about anything to you and you have no rights. I hope I am not getting political here, but we have way to many people in positions of power all across the country that are not even elected that can mess with you. So yes I am very vocal at our town board meetings, even was told I would be arrested if I did not shut my mouth. When I reminded the pompous *****$$ that he worked for us, not the other way around and he could be recalled at that very meeting because we had enough people there, he backed down. By the way it was over him spending town money(ours) to help drain a friends farm.

 

[R Socey]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

What they did was unconstitutional! If you lay down, and take it,
it will only encourage them to continue usurping their authority. I
am a 10th generation American - former US Marine, and I love my freedom. It tears me apart to see the constant erosion there of. I would of told them to go to hell!

 

[Outsider]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

Can't sue because the officer wasn't nice or threatened to violate your rights. It would be a civil suit where demonstration of damages is required, hurt feelings and loss of time may not be enough.

Buzzstpoint, on the other hand, now has an arrest on his record, even though charges were dropped. Even with that, he'll have to show damages in order to recover anything ... :facepalm:

 

[BF]

Re: "My" run in with the law.

may or may not have any bearing to this... but a lawyer friend of mine said the best course of action when being asked to either OK a search or blow into a breathalizer etc for no apparently good reason, is to ask the officer, not "what are you looking for?" but, "why do you think it is necessary for you to search my car (or have me blow in the breathalizer)?" Without a reasonable answer to that question, suspicious behaviour, erratic driving etc, there are not probable grounds and their request is unreasonable. His point was that if you phrase it that way and then say no I don't consent to it without some reason, they usually back down pronto... They didn't seem to back down in your case, but the fact that you drove away without repercussion shows they know they did not have a leg to stand on. It would be interesting to find out if they thought your CWP was grounds for suspecting you had contraband. If they had said that, I imagine (?) there could've been repercussions that maybe you could have pursued through the legal system (if you felt like the hassle).