My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

[classiccat]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

Hey BF - Have you figured out how much extra weight you're adding with the added rivets? Of course the alternative is glub, glub. Mayday, Mayday.

~ 200+ new rivets weigh considerably less weight than a bilge full of water :laugh:

Amazing thought and solutions to some serious issues. :encouragement:

I can't imagine being so dim witted as your boats PO as to not notice they were grinding off all that material in those areas.

He's a really nice guy...very personable; one of those happy-go-lucky types with just enough mechanical knowledge (and a garage full of inherited tools) to be dangerous!

Agreed! You are doing some awesome work here bringing this chewed hull back to life, really well done:thumb:

Thanks jas!

Please tell me you are finished finding holes and areas of aluminum that needs your crafty repairs. I'm pretty sure it must of taken quite a few useless PO's to in inflict all that damage.

I found this damage early in the resto...I was just refreshin' everyone's memory :lol: I saved the worst-work for last.

I believe this boat had 2 owners. The 2nd owner (who I purchased the rig from) restored the deck and slathered that epoxy on everything. He and his family used the boat very hard.

It's a testament to how resilient these old tin tubs are. With a little TLC, you can have a nice rig that gets handed down to your kids & grandkids!

 

[astor]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

how you gonna patch the chewed up keel and spray rail? I would be soooo tempted to fill em in and build em up with a TIG torch, but that would only be cosmetic without applying patches to reduce the stresses in the welded area and adjacent heat affected zones (at least on the spray rail.)

 

[classiccat]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

how you gonna patch the chewed up keel and spray rail? I would be soooo tempted to fill em in and build em up with a TIG torch, but that would only be cosmetic without applying patches to reduce the stresses in the welded area and adjacent heat affected zones (at least on the spray rail.)

I already filled / faired it with JB.

I got really close to forming a piece of 0.09" 6061 a few months back...but close ain't good enough for this bad boy.

I'm going to try an annealed piece of 0.063". Then drill holes into the upper spray rail surface, install temporary pop rivets & form it with a dead-blow

I did some practice annealing this morning and so far like the results...definitely improves the malleability.

Once it's formed, it's getting buttered with 5200 and secured with solid rivets.

I'll report-back this evening!

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

I did some practice annealing this morning and so far like the results...definitely improves the malleability.

Once it's formed, it's getting buttered with 5200 and secured with solid rivets.

I'll report-back this evening!

I watched Jesse James make a bike gas tank with AL and it had more serious forming than any you have. The first thing he did was anneal the tin. You should do OK.

 

[classiccat]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

I watched Jesse James make a bike gas tank with AL and it had more serious forming than any you have. The first thing he did was anneal the tin. You should do OK.

That guy is an aerosol but works magic with metal!

Ok guys, I went all-in with the spray-rail patch. I've been dragging my feet on it for almost a year!

Here's how it went down:

1. Soap-it-up:
   
   
2. Heat-it-up:
   
   ^^Be aware that the vice is a heat-sink so minimize the contact area.
   
3. Drill-it-up:
   
   
4. Beat-it-up:
   
   ^^ those pop-rivets are temporary; when I get a riveting-partner, this will get back-buttered with 5200 and secured with 3/16" brazier head solid rivets

This far-exceeded my expectations...and it's uber-strong!

Huge thanks to GaB for posting that video on annealing...made the world-of-difference! :thumb:

 

[Watermann]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

Hey that is a slick trick alright but does the metal retain it's former strength once cooled?

So BF how about putting that patch on the inside of the sprayrail to add the needed strength and do the fill repair with JB on the outside? Just a thought.

Also I have a question for you on my Chief thread.

 

[classiccat]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

Hey that is a slick trick alright but does the metal retain it's former strength once cooled?

So BF how about putting that patch on the inside of the sprayrail to add the needed strength and do the fill repair with JB on the outside? Just a thought.

Also I have a question for you on my Chief thread.

Thanks Agua!

The sole purpose of it is to protect the JB-repair from impact & exposure...not stress/flex since I already have the internal bracing.

Annealing makes it more malleable, then forming is where the patch gains back its strength.

 

[astor]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

Looks great, I don't even see hammer marks on it.

 

[dozerII]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

Real nice BF, your really mastering those aluminum skills.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

"That guy is an aerosol but works magic with metal!"

Very true! Before you do the final rivet are you going to re-anneal? That puts the hardness back in the un-worked part of the metal. I'm not 100% sure it's needed for patches.

 

[classiccat]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

Real nice BF, your really mastering those aluminum skills.

Thanks for the compliment Glen! I suppose this is one of things I can be grateful of the PO for

"That guy is an aerosol but works magic with metal!"

Very true! Before you do the final rivet are you going to re-anneal? That puts the hardness back in the un-worked part of the metal. I'm not 100% sure it's needed for patches.

I didn't plan on doing anymore heat treatments. The english-fella in that Utube vid neglected to mention a post-anneal :lol:

I'll do a little research before I fasten-it for good.

Looks great, I don't even see hammer marks on it.

Thanks astor!

The trick was getting it started by hammering on a block of wood...right where the radius begins. Then I hit the underside of the patch with a dead-blow.

That cell-phone pic didn't do it any justice. Here's some more tin-candy:


A shot from the inside...this is the only vertical riser that we didn't secure knowing that I had to access this patch. You get a sense of the extent of the damage...and the bracing that locks this spray-rail for good.

 

[astor]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

I didn't plan on doing anymore heat treatments. The english-fella in that Utube vid neglected to mention a post-anneal :lol:

I'll do a little research before I fasten-it for good.

If its 6061 "re-annealing" will also require a water quench to harden. -more specifically heat it to 990F until its heated uniformly through, then immediately water quench to room temp.

 

[classiccat]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

If its 6061 "re-annealing" will also require a water quench to harden. -more specifically heat it to 990F until its heated uniformly through, then immediately water quench to room temp.

This is a really interesting topic!

I used 5052...which seems to be one of the more misunderstood aluminum alloys regarding heat treating. According to the "internet experts", cold forming is all that's needed however I went that route and couldn't get it to conform to the full radius even with 2" pieces. Annealing got me over the finish line.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

Always interested in additional info & methods, I looked up 5052 and found this relevant:

[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Principal Design Features

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]This is a non-heat treatable alloy that is weldable. It is hardened by cold work. It has good forming characteristics and good corrosion resistance, including resistance to salt water.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Applications
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Commonly used in the manufacture of hydraulic tubes, kitchen cabinets, small boats, home freezers, milk crates, aircraft tube, fencing, and appliances. Commonly used in sheet metal work and in sheet metal parts.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Forming

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]AL 5052 is readily formed at room temperature. Successive cold working decreases the formability.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Welding
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]This alloy is readily welded by conventional methods. When filler rod is required it should be aluminum alloy 5356 as filler. Either tungsten or consumable electrode inert gas shielded arc welding is preferred method.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Heat Treatment
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]AL 5052 cannot be hardened by means of heat treatment. It does harden due to cold working.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Forging
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]The alloy may be forged in the temperature range of 950 F down to 500 F.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Hot Working
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Hot working, as with forging, may be done in the range of 950 F to 500 F.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Cold Working
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]The alloy cold works readily and may be formed by drawing or spinning. However the amount of cold work imparted by spinning makes intermediate annealing necessary.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Annealing
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Anneal at 650 F and air cool.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Aging
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Not applicable to this alloy.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Tempering
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Not applicable.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]

---

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Hardening
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 5"]Hardens only from cold working.
[/TD]
[/TR]

But since it's really a 'cosmetic' cover for the repaired edge of the chine, and not really structural, that's the newly added vertical brace on the inside, I don't think there should be any problem of either having annealed it to make it workable, or not being able to re-heat treat it.

 

[astor]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

i'm not a metallurgist, those guys put me to sleep within minutes, So I only know what I need to know, or was able to pickup during the first few minutes before sleep sets in.

5XXX series is not really able to be heat treated only strain hardened (rolled),
where 6XXX series can be heat treated to harden.

Aluminum has a few different Temper designations,
0-annealed
H-strain hardened
T-precipitate hardened
W- quench hardening(this is what i suggested for 6061 because its easiest but wouldn't necessarily get you back to a T6)

You will find 5000 series aluminum sold as H (strain hardened) or 0 (annealed) temper . you most likely have 5052H32 or H34. You can easily anneal back to a 0 temper, then when you work it, only the areas that are stretched during the working will harden.

 

[classiccat]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

Thanks a bunch for the info/confirmation guys!! No post-form anneal necessary

I'll simply clean-off the burnt-soap, acid-treat the mating surfaces and rivet the patch in place for good!

 

[Pmccraney]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

I'm REALLY enjoying watching you bring Franken-boat back to life...

 

[classiccat]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

NEWSFLASH: The Admiral agreed to help me set rivets. :cheer2:

Oh man, I better get off of the 'puter...get to deburring! :ranger:

...break-out a fresh tube of 5200 :brushteeth:

...oh man, so much to do...so little time!! :scared:

!! before she might change her mind

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

Chop, Chop! Set 'em while you can, BF. Take her out to dinner this evening, you owe her big time!

 

[dozerII]

Re: My First StarCraft; 1975 18' SuperSport

Don't let the moment slip away, get her help before she realizes what she has agreed to.