Merc Outboard - 2 Year Old Engine Failure, 5 Year Extended Warranty Denied

[jengel]

FWIW, I like to add oil into the cylinder when doing the winterization. With the plugs out, it shouldn't matter how you spin the engine. However, as per my Merc paperwork, "turn engine over manually".

I would have a problem with the original denial, I still don't see proof of water ingestion. There are other possibilities, so how does Merc stand behind that?
Keep fighting, maybe something will come from this? Over the years, I've contacted Merc several times, and they've always been prompt with their answers.

As mentioned above, I sent Merc a letter via email on Wednesday June 8. At that time, I had to contact them via their customer service phone number to get an email address so I could include photos, not just that "contact us" text-only form on their web page. On Thursday, June 16, I followed up since I had not gotten even as much as a "Thanks for your message" to see if they had received my original inquiry - maybe I got the email address wrong? They responded within an hour that they had received it and that a letter was sent in the mail and I should hear from them by the end of the week. Well, it's Monday, June 20, nearly 2 weeks later, and I am still waiting for today's mail to see if anything arrived.

I'll hold off on commenting further as I'll give Merc the benefit of the doubt for now, but my initial impression has been pretty negative.

 

[QBhoy]

Actually, Mercury does say to remove the plugs and spray 1 ounce of fogging oil in the plug holes (5 seconds in each one), then turn the engine two complete revolutions before re-installing the plugs. IMO this doesn't do a dang thing except convince you to buy a $20 can of their Quicksilver storage seal.

Is that a recent instruction? And for this engine ? I’ll need to check mine. But I know my other modern mercruiser engine manual definitely says to run a 2 stroke mix of fuel through the engine, before storage. Fogging oil plays havoc with these modern Fi engines. Especially if inducted down the throttle body, at least. I wouldn’t put it near my engines, in any sort of ingestion method. Even down plug holes. Just my preference perhaps.

 

[jengel]

Is that a recent instruction? And for this engine ? I’ll need to check mine. But I know my other modern mercruiser engine manual definitely says to run a 2 stroke mix of fuel through the engine, before storage. Fogging oil plays havoc with these modern Fi engines. Especially if inducted down the throttle body, at least. I wouldn’t put it near my engines, in any sort of ingestion method. Even down plug holes. Just my preference perhaps.

I looked up the user manual for my motor which is a 2019, new in 2020. The lookup takes the serial number and then pulls up the documents for it. It matches the hard copy I received as well.

 

[boscoe99]

Is that a recent instruction? And for this engine ? I’ll need to check mine. But I know my other modern mercruiser engine manual definitely says to run a 2 stroke mix of fuel through the engine, before storage. Fogging oil plays havoc with these modern Fi engines. Especially if inducted down the throttle body, at least. I wouldn’t put it near my engines, in any sort of ingestion method. Even down plug holes. Just my preference perhaps.

From a Mercury ProXS 115 four stroke owners manual.

The fogging oil is applied directly into the cylinder. For prevention of corrosion. Well downstream from the fuel injectors.

In aircraft engines it is done quite often. Even in the desert. They go so far as to install dessicant plugs that help to reduce any atmospheric moisture that may get into the cylinders.

 

[boscoe99]

Why would fogging oil play havoc with a fuel injected motor?

 

[jimmbo]

Spraying the Fogging Oil into the Throttle Body, will allow it to coat everything, including sensors, and anything else upstream of the injectors, there is nothing that will/can wash it off. In Carbed Engines, Gasoline was everywhere, and would wash the Fogging Oil off.

 

[boscoe99]

I'll hold off on commenting further as I'll give Merc the benefit of the doubt for now, but my initial impression has been pretty negative.

I can understand your grief and pain. But business in business.

Have you heard the term "irrational expectations"? It comes to mind here.

IMO Mercury is not looking to deny warranty claims. By the same token, they are not looking to approve claims that do not constitute a warrantable defect.

Hydro lock is not a warrantable defect. It is what is known as induced damage. Something external to the motor caused the damage. Mercury is under no more obligation to help a customer with a non warranty defect than the customer is under an obligation to send Mercury more money if and when the motor never has a problem for decades.

Words from Don Henley of the Eagles come to mind here.

There are people in your life
Who've come and gone
They let you down
You know they hurt your pride
You better put it all behind you
Cause life goes on
You keep carrying that anger
It'll eat you up inside

 

[QBhoy]

Why would fogging oil play havoc with a fuel injected motor?

Did you read the full post ? If it’s inducted through the throttle body, it sure does. Mercruiser actually changed the manual for the mpi. Sensors and all sorts in these things, these days.

 

[jengel]

As mentioned above, I sent Merc a letter via email on Wednesday June 8. At that time, I had to contact them via their customer service phone number to get an email address so I could include photos, not just that "contact us" text-only form on their web page. On Thursday, June 16, I followed up since I had not gotten even as much as a "Thanks for your message" to see if they had received my original inquiry - maybe I got the email address wrong? They responded within an hour that they had received it and that a letter was sent in the mail and I should hear from them by the end of the week. Well, it's Monday, June 20, nearly 2 weeks later, and I am still waiting for today's mail to see if anything arrived.

No letter in Monday's mail. Still waiting. Coming up on 2 weeks just to get a reply. I could call and complain and try and track someone down, but I want to see how long it takes for Mercury to respond to a customer in a hard spot who is seeking their assistance.

 

[jengel]

I can understand your grief and pain. But business in business.

Have you heard the term "irrational expectations"? It comes to mind here.

My frustration is Merc "slow playing" this, and while they could have responded to my inquiry via email quickly, efficiently, and freely, they choose to slow the process down, waste more of my summer, and use snail mail and drag their feet. It was 5 days ago that I inquired and was told a letter had been mailed to me and I should expect it before the end of the week. Still haven't gotten it. I don't expect them to pay for the full repair at this point, but I was hoping they would be willing to help me out and offer me a discount on the replacement parts. Regardless, whether they agree to help out or not, it's ridiculous to wait weeks just for a response. It's shitty customer service. And external factors are some of the causes of hydro-locking. Leaky injectors and other engine failures (I've received comments listing a number of rare, but possible scenarios) do as well. Merc can't prove what caused the failure just as I can't. All I know is the engine was fine when I took it off the lake and ruined when I launched again in the Spring, and I've established it didn't happen at the launch, at least from water getting too high on the engine. But, I'm left with a $9,000 bill. I understand the industry has established that this is not warrantable, but Honda and Yamaha appear to be much more willing to work with customers in cases like this. So, I'll keep expressing my frustration until I at least get a response from Merc.

 

[jimmbo]

Big companies are about as Efficient as Government Agencies. Breeding Elephants gets faster Results.
As for Mercury "waste more of my Time" It is you hanging around the Mailbox...

 

[boscoe99]

Did you read the full post ? If it’s inducted through the throttle body, it sure does. Mercruiser actually changed the manual for the mpi. Sensors and all sorts in these things, these days.

I did. Below is the post that I was referring to.

"Is that a recent instruction? And for this engine ? I’ll need to check mine. But I know my other modern mercruiser engine manual definitely says to run a 2 stroke mix of fuel through the engine, before storage. Fogging oil plays havoc with these modern Fi engines. Especially if inducted down the throttle body, at least. I wouldn’t put it near my engines, in any sort of ingestion method. Even down plug holes. Just my preference perhaps."

How is fogging oil that is injected directly into a cylinder going to cause havoc?

The jury is still out with respect to spraying fogging oil directly into an intake system. Should be nil harm with carburetted models. Might, repeat might, cause some issue with an EFI system. Some do it with nil problems.

 

[boscoe99]

How many ways, how many times, does Mercury need to say no? What part of their initial no was not understandable?

One phone call to Mercury, with their saying no, should have been enough.

Perhaps a not only no but hell no should have been their reply. But then they would have been reported as having been rude.

 

[jengel]

How many ways, how many times, does Mercury need to say no? What part of their initial no was not understandable?

One phone call to Mercury, with their saying no, should have been enough.

Perhaps a not only no but hell no should have been their reply. But then they would have been reported as having been rude.

I am fully within my right to write them a letter and ask if they would be willing to help me out with a $9,000 repair on a 2 year old engine with a 5 year warranty. Do you disagree? I had never asked if they would be willing to help me out with this unexpected repair bill under very strange circumstances in which I, the consumer, didn't do anything that could have caused this failure. Do you work for Mercury or what is your purpose here?

 

[QBhoy]

I did. Below is the post that I was referring to.

"Is that a recent instruction? And for this engine ? I’ll need to check mine. But I know my other modern mercruiser engine manual definitely says to run a 2 stroke mix of fuel through the engine, before storage. Fogging oil plays havoc with these modern Fi engines. Especially if inducted down the throttle body, at least. I wouldn’t put it near my engines, in any sort of ingestion method. Even down plug holes. Just my preference perhaps."

How is fogging oil that is injected directly into a cylinder going to cause havoc?

The jury is still out with respect to spraying fogging oil directly into an intake system. Should be nil harm with carburetted models. Might, repeat might, cause some issue with an EFI system. Some do it with nil problems.

It definitely causes issues down the throttle body, then left unused. 100% on that. Leaves a sticky coating over everything between there and the cylinders. That’s why they changed the instructions in the manual for the mpi. Efi tbi might manage to get away with it. But not engines with a fuel rail and individual injectors and with air flow sensors etc etc. each to their own though.

 

[chris.olson]

Could spraying fogging oil for 5 seconds cause hydro lock if they didn't crank it with the plugs out afterwards? Maybe they sprayed it for 10 seconds and forgot to crank it?

It all depends on the person doing it. Some people tend to get carried away with the fogging deal. I've seen some people run a whole can thru a two-stroke outboard before. If you get one of those fogging the jugs on your four-stroke - if a little is good a lot must be better - yeah, you can lock one up tighter than a drum.

Changing the oil and running the engine to toss fresh oil around in the crankcase and valve train is more effective winterization than fogging the dang cylinders. Why they didn't do that is a mystery. Don't care if the oil "looked good", that's not how you determine whether or not to change the oil. You change it at 100 hrs and/or end of season so when you take it out next year it can run 100 hrs before changing oil. If it was just changed 10 or 20 hours ago at end of season, then just change the oil and leave the old filter on it. But failure to perform that service for a winterization is, in itself, highly supicious.

 

[FLATHEAD]

It appears your beating a dead horse. That said it will be interesting to see what’s in the letter they send. I wouldn’t be surprised if a copy of the warranty is included.

 

[jimmbo]

It wouldn't matter if the engine had 3 minutes on it and was subjected Fluid Ingestion.

If the Shop that did the winterizing had put "Sprayed Fogging Oil into Throttle Bodies" and had charged for a full can of Fogging Oil, on the Work Order, and or Receipt, you might have a Civil Lawsuit.

 

[QBhoy]

It wouldn't matter if the engine had 3 minutes on it and was subjected Fluid Ingestion.

If the Shop that did the winterizing had put "Sprayed Fogging Oil into Throttle Bodies" and had charged for a full can of Fogging Oil, on the Work Order, and or Receipt, you might have a Civil Lawsuit.

Agree.

 

[Dave1027]

I have to say, and I know many won't agree with this. It's best to never let anyone touch your motors. My main motor was perfect till I took it to the dealer for a 100 hour maintenance. It never ran the same after that plus they broke the prop. It took me forever to get the motor running correctly again. Along the way, I had to go to court (and win) against one boat shop. I eventually got the motor working again, no thanks to any dealer or even a Mercury rep. I ended up having to fix it myself.

Sorry to have to post this (especially to those mechanics who frequent this forum who are probably good guys) but I had to get it off my chest. Rant over